Anyone feel like they're not "keeping up with the Jonses"?

[Micca]

The only Jones I'm keeping up with is when I Jones for Dairy Queen

 

[wenrob]

my dad died when i was 19-about 2 years into his retirement. he and mom were savers, we never did any opulent vacations but i remember the simple ones we did fondly. what i remember more so is that my mom was kind of the odd man out among her group of widowed lady friends-all of whom were widowed in their mid 50's from men who had worked pretty comparable earning (then) middle income jobs-mom was the only one who didn't have to scramble to get a job to meet her needs. mom lived a full 31 years after dad's death. she met her needs but could also do some of the trips she and dad never would have considered doing during his 'earning years' (they wanted to travel a little after he retired). mom never had to approach any of her kids for help with home repair costs, medical bill costs.......anything. they/we kids growing up never did without but choices were made based on their priorities-one being having money to get them through the remainder of their lives.

people have to make their own choices. some folks who i know for a fact are shortchanging their retirement savings by choosing to pay all their kid's college education. they don't want their kids 'saddled with debt for 30 years' but i suspect they are just deferring the debt their kids will incur b/c the likelihood is those kids won't want to see mom/dad living hand to mouth in retirement so they will be subsidizing them for the final decades of the parent's lives. those kids then have no means to save for their own retirement and don't have a choice of even so much as helping (if they want) their own kids w/college.

the decisions we make today impact not only ourselves but our kids (if you've got that kind of familial relationship/habit of helping) and subsequently the future generations of the family. i'm all for making great memories while i'm able/around but i tend to think that those will be easily forgotten if i've put my kids between a rock and hard place financially for the majority of their adulthood.

This is going to sound crazy but one of the best things to happen to us was to become suddenly financially devastated. We were at an age that was young enough to turn it around but also old enough for it to be a very “come to Jesus” realization. I will never go there again if I can help it. The consequences of becoming a “saver” (no worries, I enjoy life too) is that the people I mentioned above think I’m tight fisted and stingy. I get the distinct impression that I’m expected to come to the rescue eventually. It sounds awful but that’s never going to happen. I will not let stepmom go homeless and I helped take care of BIL’s remains (could not stand the thought of that not happening) but I’ll be damned if I give up my own financial security. Harsh, I know but I can’t support other people if I hope to not have my kids have to support me in the future.

 

[disneychrista]

I KNOW I am not keeping up with Jones. In fact I have fallen more behind then before over the last couple years due to taking a big salary hit when I had to find a new job when the company I had worked for, for 21 years closed on 1/2/18.

 

[FireflyTrance]

I do think you should DEFINITELY fund your own retirement before funding your child's education. Kids can take out loans for college but no one is going to let you take out loans to fund your retirement. There is no guarantee that your kids will "do the right thing" and give you money if you end up not being able to afford your living expenses in retirement.

 

[barkley]

In my dad’s case, he didn’t have a spouse & my sister & I are financially independent & were in our late 30s. He was very frugal & denied himself many things “just in case”. When he was dying, he talked about some of the things he never got to do not about how much was in his bank account. That didn’t matter. There is a balance for sure, but we think it’s also important to live life to the fullest.

that's were a person/couple's individual situation comes into play. with my mom & dad their priorities were that so long as we kids were young there had to be savings in place for our continued support and either surviving spouse if something happened/retirement years for ideally both of them, as we aged up the numbers shifted to their retirement/a surviving spouse. with dh and i when we first married it was surviving spouse coverage via life insurance (bought a house/didn't want a survivor to be forced out in case one of us passed). when we had kids it notched up.

even with the best laid out plans life can throw a curve ball-i had to retire in my early 40's (prime earning/saving years), then dh less than a decade later (same financial issue). we have a disabled adult son. life happens but b/c we've always balanced out doing/buying stuff with savings we can continue to live a decent lifestyle that includes some nicer trips and such (and our son will be able to after we pass). unfortunately our plans were largely learned b/c of the tragedies of another-had a co-worker at 8 months pregnant go to crawl into bed with her 30'ish dh. 30'is dh was dead-massive heart attack no one could have predicted. pregnant, brand new home, considerable credit card debt, no savings, no life insurance. we saw her and her mother go through hell (mom was retired at the time and had to find work to try to help support the dd/grand baby b/c even after all the foreclosure/repossessions/bankruptcy she couldn't afford daycare and living expenses on what was a decent salary for then). this was a couple who thought they had decades to save, wanted tons of spendy experiences to remember in their golden years and before they settled into the home they 'had' to get b/c 'everyone else has houses that nice, sure it will be tight for a few years but our incomes will increase'

it scared the poo out of us so we've taken the attitude to live for today while planning for the tomorrows.

 

[Pink Partridge]

my dad died when i was 19-about 2 years into his retirement. he and mom were savers, we never did any opulent vacations but i remember the simple ones we did fondly. what i remember more so is that my mom was kind of the odd man out among her group of widowed lady friends-all of whom were widowed in their mid 50's from men who had worked pretty comparable earning (then) middle income jobs-mom was the only one who didn't have to scramble to get a job to meet her needs. mom lived a full 31 years after dad's death. she met her needs but could also do some of the trips she and dad never would have considered doing during his 'earning years' (they wanted to travel a little after he retired). mom never had to approach any of her kids for help with home repair costs, medical bill costs.......anything. they/we kids growing up never did without but choices were made based on their priorities-one being having money to get them through the remainder of their lives.

people have to make their own choices. some folks who i know for a fact are shortchanging their retirement savings by choosing to pay all their kid's college education. they don't want their kids 'saddled with debt for 30 years' but i suspect they are just deferring the debt their kids will incur b/c the likelihood is those kids won't want to see mom/dad living hand to mouth in retirement so they will be subsidizing them for the final decades of the parent's lives. those kids then have no means to save for their own retirement and don't have a choice of even so much as helping (if they want) their own kids w/college.

the decisions we make today impact not only ourselves but our kids (if you've got that kind of familial relationship/habit of helping) and subsequently the future generations of the family. i'm all for making great memories while i'm able/around but i tend to think that those will be easily forgotten if i've put my kids between a rock and hard place financially for the majority of their adulthood.

Great post!

Isn't strange how women were able to stay home "back in the day" and tend to the children and house. And then, like your mom, be financially set for the rest of their lives. My grandmother was like this. A homemaker. She loved it and thrived. Amazing baker and cook. Made us the most beautiful dresses. We were at her house constantly. Just sitting in her kitchen with her. I could cry thinking about that comforting time in my life.

My Grandfather died in his 60s. But her life was untouched. House was paid off. Pension was flowing. And like your mother, she then started to travel. She never remarried. But lived a great life.

 

[morgan98]

Great post!

Isn't strange how women were able to stay home "back in the day" and tend to the children and house. And then, like your mom, be financially set for the rest of their lives. My grandmother was like this. A homemaker. She loved it and thrived. Amazing baker and cook. Made us the most beautiful dresses. We were at her house constantly. Just sitting in her kitchen with her. I could cry thinking about that comforting time in my life.

My Grandfather died in his 60s. But her life was untouched. House was paid off. Pension was flowing. And like your mother, she then started to travel. She never remarried. But lived a great life.

Great post!

Isn't strange how women were able to stay home "back in the day" and tend to the children and house. And then, like your mom, be financially set for the rest of their lives. My grandmother was like this. A homemaker. She loved it and thrived. Amazing baker and cook. Made us the most beautiful dresses. We were at her house constantly. Just sitting in her kitchen with her. I could cry thinking about that comforting time in my life.

My Grandfather died in his 60s. But her life was untouched. House was paid off. Pension was flowing. And like your mother, she then started to travel. She never remarried. But lived a great life.

I think a lot of this probably has to do with people having pensions in the past as well. My grandfather immigrated when he was 40ish with his wife and two children (one being my mother) and worked as a baker. My grandmother did not work outside the home, yet did do some ironing and mending for some clients that dropped things off at her home. They sent their two daughters to college as well. He did get social security but he also received a pension. Granted it was not a huge amount, but it was enough to supplement social security and the amount they were able to save by living frugally. The enjoyed retirement, traveled back to Italy for summers (living in their hometown) and died with money in the bank. This would be very difficult to accomplish today for sure.

 

[barkley]

She never remarried

it might have been b/c the rules on pensions and social security back then would have eliminated her income.

my parents absolutely did not believe in co-habitation outside of marriage but my dad used to tell my mom repeatedly that if something happened to him and she met someone else 'for god's sake-shack up, i worked too hard all these years for that pension and social security to go to waste'. he had seen a few too many of their friend's surviving widows remarry, become a widow a second time around and have (1) lost out on first husband's pension/ss survivors, and (2) have no survivor's qualification for pension or ss on the second husband's part

mom did not remarry but a couple of her widowed friends had 'gentlemen friends' who were 'boarders' in their homes

 

[RamblingMad]

Great post!

Isn't strange how women were able to stay home "back in the day" and tend to the children and house. And then, like your mom, be financially set for the rest of their lives. My grandmother was like this. A homemaker. She loved it and thrived. Amazing baker and cook. Made us the most beautiful dresses. We were at her house constantly. Just sitting in her kitchen with her. I could cry thinking about that comforting time in my life.

My Grandfather died in his 60s. But her life was untouched. House was paid off. Pension was flowing. And like your mother, she then started to travel. She never remarried. But lived a great life.

Nope.

Before the suburban flight, neighborhoods had folks from a large variety of occupations. The income difference between labor and college educated was much smaller. And homes in general were also smaller.

We got to this place by spending far more than folks did in the past.

Also, our parents had very high inflation with high interest rate mortgages. But what happened was that inflation and rates came down, so they could refinance and pretty much pay off their homes much faster then we can. My parents bought their home for $40k in the 60s and had it paid off before their 40s.

Our economics is just different.

 

[DisLiss]

Nope. The Joneses just aren't even on my radar. I'm pretty focused on everything my family is doing and needs to do so I often don't pay attention to what others are doing, buying, spending, going.

 

[tzolkin]

This is one of the reasons why I'm not on social media like Facebook or Instagram. How can I be jealous of someone's trip/home/car if I don't know about it. I instead focus on what's important to my family.

I agree with your attitude about not caring what others are doing, but regarding the OP... I don't think the majority of people are bragging about saving for retirement on social media.

I'm actually curious what their friends or peers talk about that the OP feels retirement savings would fall under "keeping up with the Joneses". Maybe it's the norm in their circle, but most people I know avoid discussion about saving or financial planning. Heck, DH and I worked in financial education/planning for a time and it was often like pulling teeth even talking to people who invited you into their lives. Many spouses were not even on the same page (totally unaware of the other's debts, savings, insurance policies, etc.)

 

[RamblingMad]

I agree with your attitude about not caring what others are doing, but regarding the OP... I don't think the majority of people are bragging about saving for retirement on social media.

I'm actually curious what their friends or peers talk about that the OP feels retirement savings would fall under "keeping up with the Joneses". Maybe it's the norm in their circle, but most people I know avoid discussion about saving or financial planning. Heck, DH and I worked in financial education/planning for a time and it was often like pulling teeth even talking to people who invited you into their lives. Many spouses were not even on the same page (totally unaware of the other's debts, savings, insurance policies, etc.)

Good point. No one really talks about this stuff.

 

[Christine]

Good point. No one really talks about this stuff.

I have some really close friend/coworkers and we are all about in the same age bracket. All of us are either within 1-8 years of retiring. We've started discussing how much we have in our 401Ks and if we think it's going to be enough. There's never a sense like anyone is bragging. But I guess if you're hanging with a bunch of "savers" and they get into a discussion, you may suddenly realize that you aren't saving enough.

I'm all for spending some of my money and not being miserly with it. Experiences are important. But I'm sensing the OP knows he/she has really let that area suffer. And if you have really shortchanged financial planning and admit to going on "several" vacations a year, it might be a good idea to maybe scale down if they the "several" vacations are pricey.

 

[RamblingMad]

I have some really close friend/coworkers and we are all about in the same age bracket. All of us are either within 1-8 years of retiring. We've started discussing how much we have in our 401Ks and if we think it's going to be enough. There's never a sense like anyone is bragging. But I guess if you're hanging with a bunch of "savers" and they get into a discussion, you may suddenly realize that you aren't saving enough.

I'm all for spending some of my money and not being miserly with it. Experiences are important. But I'm sensing the OP knows he/she has really let that area suffer. And if you have really shortchanged financial planning and admit to going on "several" vacations a year, it might be a good idea to maybe scale down if they the "several" vacations are pricey.

True.

When folks talk about multiple WDW vacations each year, my mind is blown.

If you have saved, your investment income by the time you reach your 40s should be able to cover a vacation. If not, then you probably haven’t saved enough.

 

[NYCgrrl]

Nope.

Before the suburban flight, neighborhoods had folks from a large variety of occupations. The income difference between labor and college educated was much smaller. And homes in general were also smaller.

We got to this place by spending far more than folks did in the past.

Also, our parents had very high inflation with high interest rate mortgages. But what happened was that inflation and rates came down, so they could refinance and pretty much pay off their homes much faster then we can. My parents bought their home for $40k in the 60s and had it paid off before their 40s.

Our economics is just different.

40K in the 60's?!? That was a heck of a lot of money back then.

 

[RamblingMad]

40K in the 60's?!? That was a heck of a lot of money back then.

And my dad was working class. Wages went up fast back then along with benefits. Times were different.

One of friends does the same job my dad did in the 80s and only makes $10k more than he did. Blows my mind.

 

[Searc]

True.

When folks talk about multiple WDW vacations each year, my mind is blown.

If you have saved, your investment income by the time you reach your 40s should be able to cover a vacation. If not, then you probably haven’t saved enough.

Who's taking their investment income? Ours is rolled right back in to investments.

 

[RamblingMad]

Who's taking their investment income? Ours is rolled right back in to investments.

So is mine. But I easily generate enough to pay for vacations if I wanted too. Eventually it will be large enough to return my salary.

 

[spiders]

Not really. I mostly only hang out with people I work with. We all make good money and we can all find out exactly how much money you're making anyway. We just all spend in different ways.

I went to a co-worker's party the other week at his house. He lives with his wife, no children. They live in a community of about 20 houses where they all backup to a 2,000 foot grass runway strip and they all have hangars. His party was in his hangar. He had two airplanes in it.

I told him, "I feel inadequate. I have a garage with a not-so-fast golf cart in it and you have a hangar with two airplanes." But it was really just a joke. Again, we all make good money and I know how much money he makes anyway and I make more money than him. His wife does work, though...he has no kids...they travel a lot. I have two kids. I also put 10% into my TSP/401k. I don't know how much he puts in and I don't really care either. We all just got together to have a good time.

 

[rigs32]

I've worked for NYS for 15 years at the end of this month. Five more years and I can get a full pension in my 60s. Fifteen more years and I can retire with a full pension at 57. I don't plan to go anywhere. I'm still putting extra money in my HSA and into a 403b because who knows what inflation will look like over the next few decades.

I also own a townhouse rather than a single family home with land and my mortgage is about half of many of my colleagues. I'm also aggressively paying down the mortgage to save on interest. Most of my colleagues also have kids (I don't) and have big cars - minivans or SUVs - to fit everyone. My $12k compact car only has about 50k miles on it, because I can walk to work when it's not too cold, and it's paid off. My student loans will be done in a year and then I can remodel my master bath than I don't care for.

My dad recently passed at 80. He'd been working class and frugal, but I really had no idea what he financial situation was and whether I was going to have to pay for the funeral from my savings. I am very grateful that I was able to take care of all the expenses without worry because I had savings. And also relieved to know he had some money in the bank for me to recoup those expenses.