The Poly2 Pricing Thread

Will Poly2 Be a Part of the Original Polynesian Condo Association?


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Maintenance Fees are exactly that: fees for maintenance. How much will it cost to maintain a brand new hotel with an outdoor pool?
MF are more complicated than that because of the charts. That OKW 9 point room does not exist. Splitting the costs between 9 points or 27 points is a big difference. Sure, the newer resorts have "lower" fees. But maybe they cost the same, and the chart is doing a lot of work. If anything, I think it shows how cheap it is to run the aging resorts.
 
I do believe there will be three room view categories.
What they they name each category will be up to the marketing folks, but they will be something like this...

1. Theme Park View or Preferred View
2. Lake View, Lagoon View, or Pool View
3. Standard View

View attachment 732094
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I have wondered a few times, based on lack of available space, if there might only be rooms on one side of the building. (Obviously on the MK facing side.)
 
MF are more complicated than that because of the charts. That OKW 9 point room does not exist. Splitting the costs between 9 points or 27 points is a big difference. Sure, the newer resorts have "lower" fees. But maybe they cost the same, and the chart is doing a lot of work. If anything, I think it shows how cheap it is to run the aging resorts.
Right but the point is, Disney (by state law), can only charge what it actually costs to maintain PVB2.

Earlier, it was suggested that MF and the point chart at PVB2 both would be high. This can only happen if this is what is costs to maintain it.

The reality is that the new Poly Tower itself won’t cost much more to maintain than a roadside Choice Hotels. Then add what Disney will charge for common areas (legally which have to be fairly divided among cash and DVC rooms). Chances are, MF and point charts won’t both be high.

Disney has free reign to charge what it wants to sell DVC points. Disney does not have the same flexibility when it comes to DVC maintenance.
 
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Earlier, it was suggested that MF and the point chart at PVB2 both would be high. This can only happen if this is what is costs to maintain it.
On a room to room basis, both are true for all of the new resorts. MFs are less on a per point basis, but not on a per room basis. Charts have significantly inflated over time, and MF haven't as much.
 
Earlier, it was suggested that MF and the point chart at PVB2 both would be high. This can only happen if this is what is costs to maintain it.
This plays out in all sorts of timeshare systems, not just Disney. There can be an advantage to owning at a high-point location, but using those points at low-point locations. For example, someone booking a Standard view 1BR at GFV during spring break, using GFV points, pays about $2,492 in dues (340 pts * $7.33/pt). Someone booking a 1BR at OKW during the same season, using OKW points, pays $2,125. Not that much different. But, use the GFV points at OKW, and you're only paying $1,663.

Granted, the GFV points cost more, so it tends to come out in the wash. SSR is even better, because it has relatively low point charts and low per-point dues and costs less.
 
MF are more complicated than that because of the charts. That OKW 9 point room does not exist. Splitting the costs between 9 points or 27 points is a big difference. Sure, the newer resorts have "lower" fees. But maybe they cost the same, and the chart is doing a lot of work. If anything, I think it shows how cheap it is to run the aging resorts.

And on the flip side, one reason the increase at OKW has been at a higher rate than some of the others is because there aren’t as many points to divide by.
 
And on the flip side, one reason the increase at OKW has been at a higher rate than some of the others is because there aren’t as many points to divide by.
Of the WDW DVCs, OKW has the second most points, more than 7.6 million.

Only SSR and AUL have more.
 
Of the WDW DVCs, OKW has the second most points, more than 7.6 million.

Only SSR and AUL have more.

True but lots of rooms to go with them which means higher costs per room for MFs

If a studio costs $45 a day to clean..making this up..that is $5/point per night if it’s 9 points. But if it is 20 point per night, then that cleaning is just over $2/night.
 
Unless it's part of the same association as Poly1 - then it can be diluted with the older longhouses and bungalows.

They can still only charge, per pint, the actual costs for expenses no matter the cost.

No matter the association, I think Disney wins with some of the expenses because DVC will hace a larger share of rooms than before and so things like monorail will be split with more DVC.
 

They can still only charge, per pint, the actual costs for expenses no matter the cost.



Remember the oldest accounting joke about what 2+2 =

The question is the actual cost for what expenses? I run a very small 100-family community and even at this tiny level, arguments over the allocation of maintenance expenses have been going on non-stop for 35 years. This is magnified 10x when you have different classes of members. For Disney it's PVB vs PR cash guests, shared WDW resources, commercial space, and possibly adding PVB2 in the future.

Besides items like Monorail, entry and exit roads, and landscaping elements, which can be defined by guest numbers and boundaries, the allocation of management resources is pretty much subjective. Unfortunately, Disney owns both sides of the equation and has only moderate reporting requirements.

This is one perk to RR or any of the non-shared DVC. It is much harder to shift costs with fewer entities.

I am highly suspicious of the MF difference between VGF and PVB this year - since labor is the largest expense you would not expect such a discrepancy,
 
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I am highly suspicious of the MF difference between VGF and PVB this year - since labor is the largest expense you would not expect such a discrepancy,

VGF just got new (converted) units though. For 2020 dues their operating budget was $10,544,880 over 2,520,448 points. For 2023 dues they're now at $20,678,815 over 4,300,203 points.
Per point, Housekeeping is only up 6.5% in that three year span. Front desk & admin is up 17%. Maintenance per point is up 17%. But transportation per point is up 34.5%. Cost of diesel on the DHS and DAK buses up that much?

'23 for '23, VGF vs. PVB, capital reserves dues are $0.10/pt higher at PVB than VGF. Admin & Front desk pp is identical. Transportation is $0.12/pt higher at PVB. Housekeeping $0.17/pt higher. Maintenance $0.14/pt higher. Utilities $0.02/pt higher. Grand total operating budget $0.70pp higher.

I'm going to say a chunk of the difference is the separated longhouses, those buildings' age, just being more maintenance heavy. Not sure why such a big transportation difference... they're both on monorail to two parks, bus to two, both have ferries to MK?

The other consideration is the points allocation. PVB is 4,032,242 pts for "380 vacation homes." VGF is more than that for "302 vacation homes."
 
I am highly suspicious of the MF difference between VGF and PVB this year - since labor is the largest expense you would not expect such a discrepancy,
Suspicious of what? The amount of increase? The disparity between the two?

In shared locations, Disney has a couple different measures it uses for dividing costs. Some budget items are allocated to DVC vs hotel on the basis of "keys" or the number of rooms in the facility. If 40% of the rooms are DVC and 60% hotel, the DVC budget will is hit for 40% of the costs. This is the case for housekeeping, though I'm unclear as to what adjustments they make for hotel rooms vs larger villas and daily cleaning vs the more limited DVC schedule.

Most items are based upon average guest counts--how many actual guests are staying in DVC villas vs hotel rooms. And this is an area which has slowly weighed heavier on DVC over the years. Many long-time members will tell you that Studios and One Bedrooms were often pitched as being most suitable for two occupants, and larger groups should consider a Two Bedroom.

But over time, members got more and more aggressive about packing rooms to their limit. DVC aided this--some would argue selfishly--by permitting 5 guests in rooms that only sleep 4 and later formally adding the 5th sleeper to many Studio and 1B rooms. Higher occupancy has the potential to shift more costs to DVC.

Imagine a resort's transportation budget is $10M and historically DVC members represent 60% of the resort population. DVC owners would be billed for about $6M in transportation costs. The next year transportation goes up to $10.5M AND Disney recalculates the guest balance and finds that DVC members are now about 63% of all guests. (They do this about every 3-5 years). DVC is asked to pay $6.6M for transportation, an effective increase of about 10% on that line item because of the double-whammy of higher costs AND a greater share earmarked for DVC.

Hard to argue with the logic because if DVC guests are taking up more seats on buses, more chairs at the pool and more seats at the evening movie under the stars, they should pay a higher share.

This is frequently mentioned during dues discussion at the annual meetings, and is referred to as "changes in the guest balance" or words to that effect. No additional detail is shared. No specific percents. But it's a real phenomenon that has contributed to dues increases over the years. And it's a differentiator when comparing two resorts. I would bet that Poly tends to attract more groups of 5 because of the second bathroom. (GF deluxe studios are similar, but Resort Studios are not.) Also as a studio-only facility, Poly is a lot denser than most DVCs. It doesn't have those 1 and 2 bedroom units gobbling a lot of points while hosting a more moderate number of guests.
 
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Suspicious of what? The amount of increase? The disparity between the two?

In shared locations, Disney has a couple different measures it uses for dividing costs. Some budget items are allocated to DVC vs hotel on the basis of "keys" or the number of rooms in the facility. If 40% of the rooms are DVC and 60% hotel, the DVC budget will is hit for 40% of the costs. This is the case for housekeeping, though I'm unclear as to what adjustments they make for hotel rooms vs larger villas and daily cleaning vs the more limited DVC schedule.

Most items are based upon average guest counts--how many actual guests are staying in DVC villas vs hotel rooms. And this is an area which has slowly weighed heavier on DVC over the years. Many long-time members will tell you that Studios and One Bedrooms were often pitched as being most suitable for two occupants, and larger groups should consider a Two Bedroom.

But over time, members got more and more aggressive about packing rooms to their limit. DVC aided this--some would argue selfishly--by permitting 5 guests in rooms that only sleep 4 and later formally adding the 5th sleeper to many Studio and 1B rooms. Higher occupancy has the potential to shift more costs to DVC.

Imagine a resort's transportation budget is $10M and historically DVC members represent 60% of the resort population. DVC owners would be billed for about $6M in transportation costs. The next year transportation goes up to $10.5M AND Disney recalculates the guest balance and finds that DVC members are now about 63% of all guests. (They do this about every 3-5 years). DVC is asked to pay $6.6M for transportation, an effective increase of about 10% on that line item because of the double-whammy of higher costs AND a greater share earmarked for DVC.

Hard to argue with the logic because if DVC guests are taking up more seats on buses, more chairs at the pool and more seats at the evening movie under the stars, they should pay a higher share.

This is frequently mentioned during dues discussion at the annual meetings, and is referred to as "changes in the guest balance" or words to that effect. No additional detail is shared. No specific percents. But it's a real phenomenon that has contributed to dues increases over the years. And it's a differentiator when comparing two resorts. I would bet that Poly tends to attract more groups of 5 because of the second bathroom. (GF deluxe studios are similar, but Resort Studios are not.) Also as a studio-only facility, Poly is a lot denser than most DVCs. It doesn't have those 1 and 2 bedroom units gobbling a lot of points while hosting a more moderate number of guests.
Thanks for re explaining in 3 paragraphs what I said in one sentence.


“Besides items like Monorail, entry and exit roads, and landscaping elements, which can be defined by guest numbers and boundaries; the allocation of management resources is pretty much subjective”


And since VGF 2 has 2 queens and a pull out it may be preferred by people with 5 .

I don’t think there is any real difference in the owners capacity habits, and the point charts are similar for the bulk of the rooms.

As far as DVC vs Cash guests - don’t they charge cash guests extra $ for more than 2 adults in a studio?
 
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I know this happens, but I have a hard time grokking it. It's more or less the opposite of the sales pitch for a typical timeshare, which is: don't cram your family into a hotel room, have a condo instead.
Nice referral to Stranger in a Strange Land, RIP Robert Hienlein.
 
Suppose a DVC portfolio consists entirely of: 110 Direct Poly points and 50 Non-grandfathered Poly resale points. What is your strategy for adding on 100-ish more points??? (no rush, taking into consideration either scenario for Poly tower association, other resorts, direct, not direct, etc, etc)
 

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