Maui

[dvcgirl67]

Ok let me follow the twisted logic. This is the deadliest fire in 10 years because of climate change? Do you think maybe it’s the deadliest because it happened to hit in a populated area? You are really reaching..

Is the world still going to end I 12 years or are we down to like 8 now? I can’t keep up.

Hawaii is having more frequent wild fires due to a warmer and drier world. It is one piece of the puzzle, but not one serious scientist (or rationally thinking person) discounts that climate change is playing a role in more extreme fires and weather.

The world isn't ending and people will be here for a very long time. They'll just need to adapt to living on a less hospitable planet.

 

[gmi3804]

I don't follow a particular kind of science. It's science. There is a particular party in this country that creates its own science though....to fit its own "brand of facts". There's no question about that. That's a relatively new phenomenon that appeared twenty or so years ago but really ramped up around....hmmmm....I don't know....2016 or so comes to mind.

He'd probably have had a problem grasping the idea of gravity too.

Here's some science:

Why Hawaii’s wildfires are so devastating — and ‘predictable’

 

[DCLMP]

I don't follow a particular kind of science. It's science. There is a particular party in this country that creates its own science though....to fit its own "brand of facts". There's no question about that. That's a relatively new phenomenon that appeared twenty or so years ago but really ramped up around....hmmmm....I don't know....2016 or so comes to mind.

I think you missed my joke about following the science.
I don’t look at things through a political lens it clouds your vision.

 

[dvcgirl67]

He'd probably have had a problem grasping the idea of gravity too.

Here's some science:

Why Hawaii’s wildfires are so devastating — and ‘predictable’

So many moving parts to this.....what ended up being a disaster waiting to happen. The wind of course played a huge role igniting the invasive plants that dry out due to drought and limited cloud cover. Apparently these grasses are all over the Hawaiian Islands where sugar cane fields used to be. Being on the Big Island recently for the first time, where they also had fires, my husband remarked on our way to our resort that he didn't think Hawaii would look so dry....between the lava fields and dry landscape, it was only when we got down to the actual beach....did it feel remotely lush.

The speed at which this thing moved...a mile per minute at its peak is terrifying. Then factor in the response which was highly limited because helicopters couldn't fly and dump ocean water on the flames due to the wind. The water system collapsed as most of the water comes from wells using electric pumps....and the power failed. Then as the houses began to burn the pipes melted releasing any water available in the system and the hydrants failed. And downed power lines caused a traffic jam....only one way in and out to escape. A lot of people perished in their cars trying to get out.

I'm guessing a lot of lessons are going to be learned after this massive tragedy.

 

[dvcgirl67]

I think you missed my joke about following the science.
I don’t look at things through a political lens it clouds your vision.

I didn't miss the joke. And I think you do. Anyway, I don't want to derail the thread over climate change denialism. Moving on.

 

[bcla]

Hawaii is having more frequent wild fires due to a warmer and drier world. It is one piece of the puzzle, but not one serious scientist (or rationally thinking person) discounts that climate change is playing a role in more extreme fires and weather.

The world isn't ending and people will be here for a very long time. They'll just need to adapt to living on a less hospitable planet.

Of course there’s no doubt that climate conditions are changing and provide a higher likelihood of wildfire spread. That’s easily observable. In this case it was the dry conditions along with the winds from a far away hurricane.

The arguments would be about the cause/contributions, and I’d generally prefer not getting into that.

 

[wvjules]

Of course there’s no doubt that climate conditions are changing and provide a higher likelihood of wildfire spread. That’s easily observable. In this case it was the dry conditions along with the winds from a far away hurricane.

The arguments would be about the cause/contributions, and I’d generally prefer not getting into that.

Just. Stop. Already.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Of course there’s no doubt that climate conditions are changing and provide a higher likelihood of wildfire spread. That’s easily observable. In this case it was the dry conditions along with the winds from a far away hurricane.

The arguments would be about the cause/contributions, and I’d generally prefer not getting into that.

You say "of course there's no doubt that climate conditions are changing" as if even this very observable fact is accepted by all. It's not. Not even close. There's the "it's always hot in the summer", "we've always had wildfires"....crowd.

It's like these people are delusional....to what is happening right around them. I don't know what they think when it's over 115 degrees for over a month in Phoenix. Or when NYC and Chicago are engulfed in dangerous wildfire smoke when that has never happened before. Or when water temps hit over 100 degrees in the waters off Florida, literally bleaching out reefs off the Florida keys that were teeming with life when I dove them only 15 years ago. It's a ridiculous willful obstinance......like adults inhabiting sulky teenager bodies. I just don't get it.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand....

 

[DCLMP]

I didn't miss the joke. And I think you do. Anyway, I don't want to derail the thread over climate change denialism. Moving on.

Maybe the climate zealots could stop bringing up climate change and denialism if you don’t want to derail the thread.

 

[RangerPooh]

A girlfriend of mine lives on Maui and her family was evacuated with just what they could grab. While their rental is still standing they've been unable to return to it. They just moved in earlier this month and had begun unpacking process. Their new landlord is being a real pill, complaining that the ash and soot inside the home is negligence from them not closing all windows before they fled. When they returned to check on their home, they found the landlord had taped a note to the door informing them that they changed the door lock code so that they could not return. Leaving them without resources. It's just blow after blow for some evacuees.

 

[DCLMP]

You say "of course there's no doubt that climate conditions are changing" as if even this very observable fact is accepted by all. It's not. Not even close. There's the "it's always hot in the summer", "we've always had wildfires"....crowd.

It's like these people are delusional....to what is happening right around them. I don't know what they think when it's over 115 degrees for over a month in Phoenix. Or when NYC and Chicago are engulfed in dangerous wildfire smoke when that has never happened before. Or when water temps hit over 100 degrees in the waters off Florida, literally bleaching out reefs off the Florida keys that were teeming with life when I dove them only 15 years ago. It's a ridiculous willful obstinance......like adults inhabiting sulky teenager bodies. I just don't get it.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand....

You say you don’t want to derail the thread but then you start calling people delusional. Nice! I’ve lived in Phoenix for 25 years. We had the coolest June ever and one of the shortest summers ever. We also had a very nice cooler Spring. July was hot yes certainly not anything out of the ordinary for us. Last year was a relatively Cool summer with lots of storms.
The media has been hyping up the hot Phoenix weather like it’s something bizarre. You really need to stop listening to the propaganda. Next year is supposed to be El Niño year. We have those every few years . I’m sure the media will be saying the rain is due to climate change.

 

[disneyseniors]

They’re going to have to find a balance. Is your trip to Wailea or Kihei area by chance? Flyer talk reports are those areas are business as usual and quite busy currently, although getting supplies at the big box stores by the airport is somewhat harder than usual.

It’s hard to know what to do. They are going to be searching for balance between rebuilding and tourism for some time. Authorities did back track on their stay away from Maui screams as they are now reminding people only West Maui is closed and the rest of the island is open for business. Link However, I would be more concerned with the timelines emerging showing Maui’s emergency management was crap in handling this. AP had a timeline out and while incredibly messy what is starting to emerge is governmental failures on multiple levels- potentially all the way down to the fire department if the source turns out to be the contained morning fire Link I find the idea of their emergency management unable to deal with a disaster to be very disconcerting. I would want to see what went wrong and how they’re gonna not do that again before I would visit that island.

Quit listening or reading whatever source you’re getting that stuff from as it’s definitely not true.

I hope it's not true. They haven't heard anything definite from their TA yet, so there's hope

 

[longboard55]

I think people are looking for clarity. Unfortunately tourists are being made the bad guy in this. Everyone is very upset about Lahaina, but blaming others is not a solution. I read the Hyatt Kaanapali website, they say they will reopen arrivals Sept 5. That seems reasonable.

As far as climate change, I do not care what it is, less always seems better then more. We need to understand the climate is a delicate balance which has progressed over billions of years. Any change even though it is slight can make a huge difference.

 

[Marrila]

I think people are looking for clarity. Unfortunately tourists are being made the bad guy in this. Everyone is very upset about Lahaina, but blaming others is not a solution. I read the Hyatt Kaanapali website, they say they will reopen arrivals Sept 5. That seems reasonable.

As far as climate change, I do not care what it is, less always seems better then more. We need to understand the climate is a delicate balance which has progressed over billions of years. Any change even though it is slight can make a huge difference.

I agree with your thoughts on climate.

The big hotels will likely have power 24-7, but it's possible other businesses and residents will be dealing with a long period of load shedding.
Recovery is going to be challenging.

 

[dvcgirl67]

I think people are looking for clarity. Unfortunately tourists are being made the bad guy in this. Everyone is very upset about Lahaina, but blaming others is not a solution. I read the Hyatt Kaanapali website, they say they will reopen arrivals Sept 5. That seems reasonable.

As far as climate change, I do not care what it is, less always seems better then more. We need to understand the climate is a delicate balance which has progressed over billions of years. Any change even though it is slight can make a huge difference.

I have friends going the last week of August to the Four Seasons Wailea. Their website is kind of conflicting as it says that non-essential travel to Maui is discouraged. However the last two lines said that the hotel is fully functional and the airport is open. Seems like code for….please don’t cancel. My friends are on the fence.

 

[gmi3804]

I have friends going the last week of August to the Four Seasons Wailea. Their website is kind of conflicting as it says that non-essential travel to Maui is discouraged. However the last two lines said that the hotel is fully functional and the airport is open. Seems like code for….please don’t cancel. My friends are on the fence.

It seems disingenuous for tourists, who don't have to be there, to put a strain on goods and services that so many people who live there likely need. I think it's way too early to plan to visit a disaster area that affected a huge portion of the island's population.

 

[wvjules]

It seems disingenuous for tourists, who don't have to be there, to put a strain on goods and services that so many people who live there likely need. I think it's way too early to plan to visit a disaster area that affected a huge portion of the island's population.

On the other hand, Maui, and the employees, desperately need those tourist dollars. Obviously do not visit West Maui, or the other burned areas, but the governor is wanting people to visit.

 

[dvcgirl67]

It seems disingenuous for tourists, who don't have to be there, to put a strain on goods and services that so many people who live there likely need. I think it's way too early to plan to visit a disaster area that affected a huge portion of the island's population.

I agree..:.I wouldn’t go to Maui. I’d switch to another island.

 

[gmi3804]

On the other hand, Maui, and the employees, desperately need those tourist dollars. Obviously do not visit West Maui, or the other burned areas, but the governor is wanting people to visit.

They need food and resources more for the time being. They don't need tourists eating all the food and drinking all the bottled water.

 

[Chili327]

It seems disingenuous for tourists, who don't have to be there, to put a strain on goods and services that so many people who live there likely need. I think it's way too early to plan to visit a disaster area that affected a huge portion of the island's population.

Agree, i think switching to another island would be a good idea (and helpful)