Maui

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I'd feel badly going to Maui for the next few weeks for sure, especially after seeing some residents being interviewed. There was outrage and tears because they saw people swimming and snorkeling, right off of Lahaina. I heard the local snorkeling company apologized and said that they'd taken on tourists to snorkel because they were taking donations from them as well. But then to snorkel off of that area....feels so macabre. They said that people drowned in those waters trying to escape the flames. That town is a big graveyard right now.

But...you're right, they're going to have to accept tourists pretty quickly. I've heard that 50% of the economy is based on tourism, up to 80% indirectly. Just such a sad situation all around.

Snorkeling right there is awful that's a bad call no matter the donation spin. You still have to be respectful for what occurred.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Snorkeling right there is awful that's a bad call no matter the donation spin. You still have to be respectful for what occurred.

I know…I can’t imagine being that disrespectful…or dumb to do that.

 

[Marrila]

I think the entire island will be affected by the need for a tremendous amount of extra goods needed by container. They may get more folks to help unload and distribute, but overall it's a tall order. The pressure on the procurement system will be immense for the entire island for many months. If vacationers are ok with doing without whatever the missing item(s) or services of the day or that week are it's a start. Life on an island after a disaster can generally quite different than life after a disaster in the US. Vacationers should be aware it may be rougher than they first planned for. And if it's not, great.

 

[monsterkitty]

Well the thing is insureds usually aren't making up what their home cost is. Computers are. It would mean that an insured specifically reduced their coverage below what the software said it should be. Many policies already include around 25% in addition for replacement cost (for standard homeowner's insurance) which helps in the interim of one's insurance policy renewal.

Our house renews next month for insurance and what they are insuring it for is $123,000 more than last years...inflation guard is on there plus the cost of rebuilding has gone up. It's insured for approximately $217,000 more than what the county assessed the property as of January 1st of this year. We don't do anything to the policy and every year no matter what company it adjusts according to inflation and rebuilding costs (and we've been with multiple companies).

When I was at the insurance company I did see some people opt to go under that amount strictly for premium really but they could only go to a certain level before you simply couldn't insure the home for that low.

While Hawaii and other places are different in my area it would be rarer for the concrete basement to be completely ruined so at least that aspect would help out (repairs sure but a full excavation and pouring unlikely).

I think for Hawaii the more unique part is the isolation creates issues to get building supplies, at least lumber is better than it used to be. So I could see on that front for the residents rebuilding is just not feasible depending on one's individual situation. In general if one is not rebuilding you get ACV for the property. But I wouldn't leap to that the majority of people are underinsured. Keep in mind when you're switching companies not every company uses the same software and it's time sensitive. If you're switching right around your renewal close to a year has already gone by and figures change. Remember when lumber was stupid high? Yeah I can bet people who got homeowner's insurance during that time had quite a high figure.

Outside of the pandemic it would be pretty rare for someone to be underinsured badly especially en masse unless they specifically chose to as most policies adjust as the years go on.

While our house was not damaged by the Marshall fire, we did have ember and debris land in our yard and neighborhood. (Part of a textbook page landed in our yard. It was a textbook for an environmental class and the page talked about climate change and natural disasters).

A few days after the fire, DH called our insurance company to make sure we were not underinsured, because those in the affected areas were already being told by their insurance company that they were underinsured. Our company did tell DH that they automatically increase coverage due to inflation while the companies being called out on the news did not.

Of the 1,000 homes destroyed in the Marshall fire, only one basement foundation was deemed safe to rebuild on. All other had to be replaced. Unfortunately for the family of the one "safe" foundation, the crews going from house to the next removing debris and foundations also removed the safe foundation. The company is still refusing to reimburse the family for the company's screw up. Because the family could not afford to rebuild, because of being underinsured because the foundation cost added on, they had to sell their lot.

 

[Dan Murphy]

, the crews going from house to the next removing debris and foundations also removed the safe foundation. The company is still refusing to reimburse the family for the company's screw up

That's awful!

 

[Mrs. Ciz]

I'd feel badly going to Maui for the next few weeks for sure, especially after seeing some residents being interviewed. There was outrage and tears because they saw people swimming and snorkeling, right off of Lahaina. I heard the local snorkeling company apologized and said that they'd taken on tourists to snorkel because they were taking donations from them as well. But then to snorkel off of that area....feels so macabre. They said that people drowned in those waters trying to escape the flames. That town is a big graveyard right now.

But...you're right, they're going to have to accept tourists pretty quickly. I've heard that 50% of the economy is based on tourism, up to 80% indirectly. Just such a sad situation all around.

Snorkeling right there is awful that's a bad call no matter the donation spin. You still have to be respectful for what occurred.

I know…I can’t imagine being that disrespectful…or dumb to do that.

I read about the snorkel trip on Reddit yesterday. They did not snorkel right off Lahaina. Someone posted that untruth and everyone piled on. They were actually 11 miles away from Lahaina. Folks on Reddit confirmed this through analyzing video posted from the trip. And they donated all proceeds from the trip ($10,000) to the Maui Food Bank. The snorkel company’s apology and explanation of the trip can be found here:

https://mauisnorkeling.com/

 

[dvcgirl67]

I read about the snorkel trip on Reddit yesterday. They did not snorkel right off Lahaina. Someone posted that untruth and everyone piled on. They were actually 11 miles away from Lahaina. Folks on Reddit confirmed this through analyzing video posted from the trip. And they donated all proceeds from the trip ($10,000) to the Maui Food Bank. The snorkel company’s apology and explanation of the trip can be found here:

https://mauisnorkeling.com/

That’s good to know if true….I saw interviews where actual residents spoke about this….so it’s sad that this is what they think happened.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

While our house was not damaged by the Marshall fire, we did have ember and debris land in our yard and neighborhood. (Part of a textbook page landed in our yard. It was a textbook for an environmental class and the page talked about climate change and natural disasters).

A few days after the fire, DH called our insurance company to make sure we were not underinsured, because those in the affected areas were already being told by their insurance company that they were underinsured. Our company did tell DH that they automatically increase coverage due to inflation while the companies being called out on the news did not.

Of the 1,000 homes destroyed in the Marshall fire, only one basement foundation was deemed safe to rebuild on. All other had to be replaced. Unfortunately for the family of the one "safe" foundation, the crews going from house to the next removing debris and foundations also removed the safe foundation. The company is still refusing to reimburse the family for the company's screw up. Because the family could not afford to rebuild, because of being underinsured because the foundation cost added on, they had to sell their lot.

Long comment here--apologies

If speaking about prolonged widespread wildfires I could see where someone's foundation is more compromised due to long exposure to high heat. The more common thing in my area is tornadoes and house fires and that normally isn't creating a situation where a foundation is so compromised it's needing to be completely removed unless code changes dictate this. But one's homeowner's insurance policy should be including a full reconstruction cost from ground up in the figures and for me personally speaking I was saying that the more common situation to occur to me would help out in that foundation aspect.

Technically our present insurance company insures our home up to $6million for reconstruction. If it costs more than the $813K it's insured at starting in September they'll still pay it. All our other policies have had 25% of the Dwelling on top of the coverage included in the reconstruction cost as just part of the policy.

Now something I could see is people not telling their insurance companies they did things that would affect the replacement and reconstruction costs, that would expose a lot of people who did renovations during the pandemic.

In addition people without inflation guards (we've always had one on our policies) which may not be automatic but is usually an option to add to one's policy or those who as Dan was mentioning thinking about market value as opposed to reconstruction cost and felt they didn't want their home insured for as high as the company wanted.

IMO the best thing people can do is ensure all your home's features and information is accurate on your policy and let the system calculate the cost then look at with your agent tailoring that. That might include for normal policies maybe you feel you want 50% added for reconstruction cost as opposed to 25% of the Dwelling or you feel you have more personal property than the percentage the insurance company lists. I was a stickler for accurate information and most of the time the discrepancies came from that, someone's basement was finished but they didn't tell the insurance company, they replaced the roof outside of insurance but didn't tell the insurance company, a claim occurred and they changed the material on their roof but never checked that the age of the roof and the materials were updated on their policies. Don't get me wrong I'm not blaming fully the insured, as insurance agents have culpability here too and not all agents nor companies are ethical all the time.

As far as the issue with the wrecking crew I'm honestly betting it was more complicated than it was being relayed to you. More meaning them claiming underinsured. There can be disagreements based on payout amounts but that isn't the same as someone not being insured adequately in the event of a total loss. In any case that's terrible about that crew mistake..it shouldn't have happened and I can't imagine how they felt, that's like hearing about how someone's home is demolished because the wrecking crew was at the wrong address, just awful.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I read about the snorkel trip on Reddit yesterday. They did not snorkel right off Lahaina. Someone posted that untruth and everyone piled on. They were actually 11 miles away from Lahaina. Folks on Reddit confirmed this through analyzing video posted from the trip. And they donated all proceeds from the trip ($10,000) to the Maui Food Bank. The snorkel company’s apology and explanation of the trip can be found here:

https://mauisnorkeling.com/

Kudos for them at least quickly getting that apology out, I can see their hearts were in it though but even being 11 miles out is probably not going to look good PR-wise. But the good aspect is the money they raised for the food banks so something positive came out of this learning opportunity.

 

[Claudia1]

The speed at which this thing moved...a mile per minute at its peak is terrifying.

I had not heard that. I can't imagine the horrifying scenario.

 

[bcla]

I had not heard that. I can't imagine the horrifying scenario.

That would have been the brush fire outside the heavily populated areas of Lahaina. That wouldn't be building to building fires, although that was reportedly happening at a fast rate.

 

[hrhdhd]

Horrific. The pictures and videos look like a horror movie. The climate catastrophe is no longer coming ... it's here.

Counterpoint: https://irrationalfear.substack.com/p/stop-claiming-that-fires-in-canada

 

[DCLMP]

Rebuilding on an island is so expensive. Goods arrive via containers and when home after home will need everything it's a difficult and lengthy task.
Sadly, I think you are right about what may happen with small to medium lots.

They had a smart city conference a few days before the fire.
I don’t think they’ll have trouble rebuilding it. It just won’t be what it was.

 

[BayouQueen]

I witnessed the Oakland-Berkeley Hills fire of 1991. Not up close and personal, but it was hard to miss that orange glow. I'm acutely aware of how dangerous and fast fire can spread.

But there might be ways to prevent damage. There are private firefighting companies that will use protective fire retardant foam that will protect for maybe a couple of weeks, but is rather messy. It's not as if most people want their homes covered in this stuff just in case, but it might make sense before a fire. They're usually hired by insurers to protect their insured properties. And they've come under criticism by those thinking they were somehow public firefighters who were only helping out with specific properties.

https://www.independent.com/2017/12/20/thomas-fire-reveals-rise-privatized-firefighting/

It can be very depressing to be the only surviving home in a burned area. That happened to my mom. First there's being surrounded by the wasteland and memories. That is followed by years of construction commotion.
They showed a photo of one house in Lahaina that "miraculously" survived. I wouldn't want to be them.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Counterpoint: https://irrationalfear.substack.com/p/stop-claiming-that-fires-in-canada

He refers to himself as “professor in exile”…..and immediately gets vaulted into a “go to guy“ on climate denialism on Fox. Funny how that works huh?

https://www.foxnews.com/media/unive...session-push-equity-science-rise-illiberalism

 

[dvcgirl67]

Some good news….the governor of Hawaii has placed a moratorium on real estate investors and developers purchasing dam or destroyed properties in Lahaina. They also seem to have made real progress on housing with 1,400 AirBNB properties listed as available for victims. I would imagine those have to be spread out around the island.

 

[hrhdhd]

Don’t waste your time. It’s their religion.

Noted.

 

[hrhdhd]

He refers to himself as “professor in exile”…..and immediately gets vaulted into a “go to guy“ on climate denialism on Fox. Funny how that works huh?

https://www.foxnews.com/media/unive...session-push-equity-science-rise-illiberalism

Do you have an argument about the data he presented, or just the ad hominem attack?

 

[DisneyOma]

I have no idea. I don’t think it’s been determined, I’m pretty sure the climate zealots will use another natural disaster to promote their global warming narrative. Anyone that questions that narrative has a cold black heart.
I’m in my 50’s I’ve seen numerous natural disasters I’ve lived through a few of them and yet somehow it’s all different now? Yeah Ok I grew up up in Southern California evacuated three times due to a fires and lost part of our property that burned down in 1980, Earthquakes, flooding, fires, hurricanes, droughts, heat domes, freezing temps, none of this is new. It’s been going since the beginning of time.

I am also in my 50's. I've lived through hurricanes, earthquakes, blizzards, and droughts. Heck, a tornado came one block away from where my daughter lived a few years ago. Climate change is a cycle, but it's the speed at which it is occurring now that's alarming. We are pulling so much stored carbon out of the earth - all that fossil fuel we burn has been in the earth for how long? Adding that into the atmospheric carbon dioxide is ramping things up.

https://royalsociety.org/topics-policy/projects/climate-change-evidence-causes/question-6/#:~:text=The speed of the current,the natural world to adapt.&text=The largest global-scale climate,cycles (see infobox, p.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Do you have an argument about the data he presented, or just the ad hominem attack?

Here's a wildfire and climate expert....PHd. NASA Scientist, Dr. Elizabeth Hoy. She addresses the rise in global temperatures which makes droughts more intense, which dries out any "fuel" that plays a huge role in wildfires, as did the non-native invasive plants that fueled the Maui fires. I could literally post hundreds of other scientists who are in agreement. Probably more if I had the time.

https://science.nasa.gov/science-news/are-wildfires-getting-worse-we-asked-a-nasa-scientist