**UPDATE** Has this happened to any other resale buyers? Fidelity made it right!

[bbeagle]

I find it very odd that you can't see the reservation and cancel it. YOUR contract is being used.

Once you 'own' a DVC contract, like say, starting on December 1, 2023..... why would anyone be able to use your DVC contract after that date? It's YOUR contract. Someone else staying on YOUR contract with YOUR points after December 1, 2023 is fraud.

Let's say I sold my house to someone on December 1, 2023... but the seller had an existing AirBnB reservation for the following summer in June. There is no way that AirBnB reservation would be enforced.

 

[tom1944]

If you made a booking for August 24 today, you could borrow August 25 points to do so.

Yes I edited my post above

 

[Robbie Cottam]

I don't really agree with this. As long as they condone resale and are a part of the process I think they should do whatever it takes to ensure that any of their members are not wronged or scammed in any way. Not to mention it wouldn't take them any more effort than just freezing an account. I don't see it like you do on this one. How you word it, it sounds like Disney almost wants things like this to happen to make people give up on resale and that would make them almost complicit by inaction. I don't think that's their intent. It's just a typical Disney loophole they have not addressed but probably should.

I’m sure you don’t agree,
However,

Disney has no duty to act, unless you can cite where in the member contract it says they will make sure third parties transfers are handled in a manner that you approve of.

I don’t think Disney wants people to be scammed, either, but it is also not their duty to protect third parties….

If Disney took any actions, they are not obligated to, it would open them up to liability.

I’m happy to agree to disagree on this one, but there is a reason Fidelity disclaims liability, and requires the parties to allow them to held harmless.

 

[sndral]

It’s not Disney’s responsibility.

…

Disney would be opening itself up to liability, to help you do something that is adverse to Disney….

…

DVC is opening itself up to liability by not freezing usage of the contract by the former owner the minute they get notice that the legal owner has changed. This nonsense of ‘leaving the contract in the former owner’s account’ while DVC MA twiddles their thumbs a couple of weeks ‘transferring’ the contract is ridiculous & is why there’s the ‘pending reservations will be canceled’ on sale language in the POS. I’d be emailing the legal department & asking why that clause has not been enforced in this case.
If I buy a house I’m not going to be ok w/ being barred from access to that house while the former owner still has the keys for a couple of weeks after the deed is registered & the sellers have their cash in hand. If this is a case of the owner using the points after the deed change was filed & during the window when the contract sat in the account of the former owner, DVC left the proverbial door unlocked allowing the former owner to steal the points from the deeded legal owner. If this is a case of sloppy title or brokerage work (incorrect listing, or points used during ROFR before Disney had legal notice of ownership change) that’s still a problem, but of a different sort.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

DVC is opening itself up to liability by not freezing usage of the contract by the former owner the minute they get notice that the legal owner has changed. This nonsense of ‘leaving the contract in the former owner’s account’ while DVC MA twiddles their thumbs a couple of weeks ‘transferring’ the contract is ridiculous & is why there’s the ‘pending reservations will be canceled’ on sale language in the POS. I’d be emailing the legal department & asking why that clause has not been enforced in this case.
If I buy a house I’m not going to be ok w/ being barred from access to that house while the former owner still has the keys for a couple of weeks after the deed is registered & the sellers have their cash in hand. If this is a case of the owner using the points after the deed change was filed & during the window when the contract sat in the account of the former owner, DVC left the proverbial door unlocked allowing the former owner to steal the points from the deeded legal owner. If this is a case of sloppy title or brokerage work (incorrect listing, or points used during ROFR before Disney had legal notice of ownership change) that’s still a problem, but of a different sort.

I agree that Disney has a duty to change the membership info in a timely fashion once you bring it to there attention that there has been a change in the ownership interest. In a the normal course of business.

When you buy a house prior to the closing, you should do a walk though of the property with your agent and not close if the house is not in an acceptable condition.

The duty here should not be on Disney, but rather the title insurance company to not release the funds until the member service change has occurred.

I agree with you in principal, there is a duty here, I do not agree it’s DVCs duty they have no part in the transaction. The broker and or the title company, should hold the funds until both parties are whole in this transaction.

Back to your house transaction,
When one buys a house, and thing need to be completed, or complied with, septic upgrades come to mind here.

The title or escrow company holds back 150 percent of the cost to complete that job. And only forwards Residual to the sell once the job is complete. That is part of what these companies get paid for.

In this case that work have worked as a remedy, no a prefect one, but the buyer would be I a much better position.

Should someone have a duty here, yes!
I’m not sure it is Disney

 

[Robbie Cottam]

I see what you are saying, but disagree....

If the deal falls through, Title company could just notify Disney and they would unfreeze it.
I mean, they are literally getting the contract in their hands (at their request) and could do this.
Its not like they are randomly freezing contracts. Its a signed and sent contract of sale that they have the option to purchase themselves.

Ok, but that’s an added step the seller has to wait for, and this board is full of the title company F… me threads…

Would a better solution be for the title company to hold the proceeds until the deal is complete and verified ?

 

[aceshigh73]

Ok, but that’s an added step the seller has to wait for, and this board is full of the title company F… me threads…

Would a better solution be for the title company to hold the proceeds until the deal is complete and verified ?

Yes. That is the easiest answer. No proceeds until contract is transferred. Buyer could in theory drag their butts and not verify or whatever. But how will title company know if it was fully transferred unless someone notifies them or they call Disney for every contract?

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Yes. That is the easiest answer. No proceeds until contract is transferred. Buyer could in theory drag their butts and not verify or whatever. But how will title company know if it was fully transferred unless someone notifies them or they call Disney for every contract?

True the buyer could drag there feet,
But if the title company files the paperwork with Disney at the time of closing, with their email address as a the notified when changed, etc …

Or as other have stated. A 14 day cooling off period, etc….

This should not happen.
The only question really is who responsibility is it to double check? The title company that go paid to transfer the title or Disney ?

 

[DanCali]

Would a better solution be for the title company to hold the proceeds until the deal is complete and verified ?

I would think/favor that, especially since in the vast majority of cases, the buyer is paying their fees and so they should at least make sure the buyer doesn't somehow get shafted.

Unfortunately, most of them seem to just disburse the funds and close the file and move on as soon as the deed is filed with the county and info sent to DVC.

 

[Sandisw]

I really find it crazy that this is even possible. I mean this is basically being run on the honor system lol. So assuming someone had nefarious reasons to sell but keep the points by transferring into another account they could do it and honestly the case would just get tied up in litigation for years probably. Assuming they were going into bankruptcy or the like they could get away with it. Similar vibe to someone getting foreclosed on and stealing all the copper pipes out of the walls before leaving.

The reason is that DVD can’t legally lock you out of using your points without having the documents that the deed has been recorded and sold.

Things happen and sales fall through. Once they process, they do block access…but until then, yes, a seller can use them.

It’s why, as I said, some title companies hold back the funds until the buyer confirms that all is well.

 

[Chili327]

I find it very odd that you can't see the reservation and cancel it. YOUR contract is being used.

Once you 'own' a DVC contract, like say, starting on December 1, 2023..... why would anyone be able to use your DVC contract after that date? It's YOUR contract. Someone else staying on YOUR contract with YOUR points after December 1, 2023 is fraud.

Let's say I sold my house to someone on December 1, 2023... but the seller had an existing AirBnB reservation for the following summer in June. There is no way that AirBnB reservation would be enforced.

Like Squatters?

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

In my opinion (not as a lawyer because I know nothing about FL real estate law), it would be sensible for Disney to freeze any use of the account after clearing ROFR. Nobody is submitting to ROFR against their will or unless they plan to sell, and if a seller wants a delayed close to book one last trip, they can arrange it before submitting to ROFR. It should be possible for the broker or title company to do a final check after that freeze but before closing. It is efficient and fair and there’s no good reason to allow people to keep playing with their points after passing ROFR, which (in rare cases) can cause real headaches for honest buyers and brokers.

 

[TheDailyMoo]

And I got the dues bill in full of course...that's fun to be on the hook for dues to points I didn't get to use!

 

[intamin]

And I got the dues bill in full of course...that's fun to be on the hook for dues to points I didn't get to use!

This whole situation is BS and it didn't even happen to me. Like where is the reservation? Is it just floating around like a fart in the wind not attached to a membership?

 

[JackosinDIS]

And I got the dues bill in full of course...that's fun to be on the hook for dues to points I didn't get to use!

Nightmare. Have you heard anything more from the broker yet?

 

[aceshigh73]

And I got the dues bill in full of course...that's fun to be on the hook for dues to points I didn't get to use!

These people would be getting a visit from “Tommy Cutlets” agent if you know what I mean.

 

[Sandisw]

In my opinion (not as a lawyer because I know nothing about FL real estate law), it would be sensible for Disney to freeze any use of the account after clearing ROFR. Nobody is submitting to ROFR against their will or unless they plan to sell, and if a seller wants a delayed close to book one last trip, they can arrange it before submitting to ROFR. It should be possible for the broker or title company to do a final check after that freeze but before closing. It is efficient and fair and there’s no good reason to allow people to keep playing with their points after passing ROFR, which (in rare cases) can cause real headaches for honest buyers and brokers.

They have to freeze the membership…can’t freeze the contract only…so, anyone with multiple contracts would be locked out from using ones not for sale.

Even now, when they are transferring once notified, one can’t do anything with a membership for that day. And, remember, people sell with delayed closing, so they can’t freeze it because the reservation needs to stay available.

 

[TheDailyMoo]

Nightmare. Have you heard anything more from the broker yet?

Check this plot twist out...turns out they used the points to book a cruise! So the email from the broker wasn't overly clear. It basically said they received a response from Disney saying the points were used for a cruise and even though it was cancelled the points are now reservation points and cannot be transferred.

I have no idea why or how the cruise was cancelled. The way the email was worded makes it seem like the broker made Disney cancel the cruise on the sellers but not sure that's even a possibility. Was the cruise cancelled by the sellers before selling but that would mean the points wouldn't be in the account and wouldn't SOMEONE have had to have verified their contract? I mean can I call up Fidelity tomorrow and say I'm selling a 100000 points no need to verify trust me bro? If the cruise was cancelled by the sellers after the sale that means they still made the reservation after the sale. Very little makes any sense.

 

[Tatebeck]

They must have had a lot more contracts and points then because I haven't seen any cruises that are bookable for 150 points. Probably used points from multiple accounts/contracts and the BCV points were applied when they shouldn't have been?

 

[CarolynFH]

Check this plot twist out...turns out they used the points to book a cruise! So the email from the broker wasn't overly clear. It basically said they received a response from Disney saying the points were used for a cruise and even though it was cancelled the points are now reservation points and cannot be transferred.

I have no idea why or how the cruise was cancelled. The way the email was worded makes it seem like the broker made Disney cancel the cruise on the sellers but not sure that's even a possibility. Was the cruise cancelled by the sellers before selling but that would mean the points wouldn't be in the account and wouldn't SOMEONE have had to have verified their contract? I mean can I call up Fidelity tomorrow and say I'm selling a 100000 points no need to verify trust me bro? If the cruise was cancelled by the sellers after the sale that means they still made the reservation after the sale. Very little makes any sense.

If the cruise was booked before the contract went for ROFR, the points should have been gone already and should not have been there when the points balances were verified. If the points were still in the account when the contract went to ROFR, doesn’t that mean the cruise was booked afterwards? In any case, I think the sellers owe you however many $ per point your contract says for missing points, especially when now you have to pay the dues on them!