**UPDATE** Has this happened to any other resale buyers? Fidelity made it right!

[Sandisw]

In reality neither buyer nor seller need to deal with any extra waiting. The estoppel process should freeze the account and the transfer should be made much sooner than the couple of weeks it now takes. It's 2023 I think this just may be possible!

Estoppel is nothing more than DVD letting the title company know the financial aspects that are in play..like financing pay off, dues owed, etc.

And, no, they can’t freeze a membership when people have other contracts. People also sell with delayed closings because of existing reservations and DVD can’t tell someone when they can or can not sell.

I get this is frustrating but the contract is built with a penalty for the seller if they don’t deliver what is promised. At one time, they didn’t even include that.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Some do hold until it’s verified. Others do not. I have had it happen both ways as a seller and buyer.

No chance you can tell us who holders funds until verified ?

 

[TheDailyMoo]

Estoppel is nothing more than DVD letting the title company know the financial aspects that are in play..like financing pay off, dues owed, etc.

And, no, they can’t freeze a membership when people have other contracts. People also sell with delayed closings because of existing reservations and DVD can’t tell someone when they can or can not sell.

I get this is frustrating but the contract is built with a penalty for the seller if they don’t deliver what is promised. At one time, they didn’t even include that.

I understand not freezing a membership but what are the logistic that would preclude a particular contract from being frozen in conjunction with a much faster transfer period. I'm actually wondering the answer to this as I'm genuinely curious what the impediments, if any, are to DVC taking these two steps.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

It is odd that Fidelity seem to be accepting some blame here by offering to make a booking for you, but on the other hand still think they can bill the Seller.

What a mess, I really feel bad for you and hope it all works out ok in the end. Perhaps if the Seller doesn’t pay I would take that offer if a booking (at BCV!) and bank some other points.

They don’t want to be tied to a mad customer….

its is much cheaper for them to eat this, than to have an upset customer tell the world how they screwed up on the internet….. oh wait….

the best thing for them would have been if the OP said yes, and came here and told the world how the broker made it right….

it was cheap damage control

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Estoppel is nothing more than DVD letting the title company know the financial aspects that are in play..like financing pay off, dues owed, etc.

And, no, they can’t freeze a membership when people have other contracts. People also sell with delayed closings because of existing reservations and DVD can’t tell someone when they can or can not sell.

I get this is frustrating but the contract is built with a penalty for the seller if they don’t deliver what is promised. At one time, they didn’t even include that.

Not to mention if you ever refinance, you also file an estoppel, but never transfer points….

disney would need a whole department just to deal with the extra work of tracking when to freeze and un freeze accounts.

the employee or department would be paid by the membership…

 

[Sandisw]

I understand not freezing a membership but what are the logistic that would preclude a particular contract from being frozen in conjunction with a much faster transfer period. I'm actually wondering the answer to this as I'm genuinely curious what the impediments, if any, are to DVC taking these two steps.

The way things are set up, they can only freeze a membership.

When a transfer is in process, the entire membership disappears from a choice for booking. So, owners do get locked out for about a day.

But, when people sell with a delayed closing, that reservation is there. Sometimes, people have waitlists in play, adjust resorts or rooms which doesn’t impact the sale.

And, as long as the reservation is there, the contract has to be available.

I get people don’t like the timeline it takes to transfer, but it’s a process to transfer.

From the way it was explained to me, the new membership is set up, the contract taken from the current owner, dissolved, and then a new contract shell created in the new membership, and then the points are transferred into that new shell.

For current owners adding on, they don’t need to create the membership so that step doesn’t need to happen.

But, for DVD, it’s not until a contract comes up to be transferred to a new owner that they are dealing with the details.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

I understand not freezing a membership but what are the logistic that would preclude a particular contract from being frozen in conjunction with a much faster transfer period. I'm actually wondering the answer to this as I'm genuinely curious what the impediments, if any, are to DVC taking these two steps.

Man power….
disney’s first priority are direct purchases.

for resale they need to get the transfer details from a third party, who knows when that is actually sent.
it then get put in someone s to do list…

 

[Sandisw]

No chance you can tell us who holders funds until verified ?

The title company did. And, the time I was the buyer was during 2020 and it was taking DVD 5 to 7 weeks to transfer and add points.

It was 5 weeks in and I got the contract but still no points. When the title company contacted me for an update, I told them to release the funds as it would be a other few weeks for points.

As a seller, it was about two weeks I waited for my check and it arrived a few days after I saw the contract disappear from my account.

 

[TheDailyMoo]

From the way it was explained to me, the new membership is set up, the contract taken from the current owner, dissolved, and then a new contract shell created in the new membership, and then the points are transferred into that new shell.

For current owners adding on, they don’t need to create the membership so that step doesn’t need to happen.

But, for DVD, it’s not until a contract comes up to be transferred to a new owner that they are dealing with the details.

Man power….
disney’s first priority are direct purchases.

for resale they need to get the transfer details from a third party, who knows when that is actually sent.
it then get put in someone s to do list…

This makes sense but I'll bet you dollars to donuts that IF they wanted to find a way to expedite the process a little more than it is then they could do it. Just like how Disney IT can fix many issues across all their platforms but either take forever to do it or don't at all.

 

[Chili327]

Man power….
disney’s first priority are direct purchases.

for resale they need to get the transfer details from a third party, who knows when that is actually sent.
it then get put in someone s to do list…

This makes sense but I'll bet you dollars to donuts that IF they wanted to find a way to expedite the process a little more than it is then they could do it. Just like how Disney IT can fix many issues across all their platforms but either take forever to do it or don't at all.

Under the radar Direct Incentives. lol

 

[Robbie Cottam]

The title company did. And, the time I was the buyer was during 2020 and it was taking DVD 5 to 7 weeks to transfer and add points.

It was 5 weeks in and I got the contract but still no points. When the title company contacted me for an update, I told them to release the funds as it would be a other few weeks for points.

As a seller, it was about two weeks I waited for my check and it arrived a few days after I saw the contract disappear from my account.

Sorry I was looking for the name of the title company….
but it also sounds like they don’t do that anymore

 

[Robbie Cottam]

This makes sense but I'll bet you dollars to donuts that IF they wanted to find a way to expedite the process a little more than it is then they could do it. Just like how Disney IT can fix many issues across all their platforms but either take forever to do it or don't at all.

They could, but who foots the bill for it ?

if Disney charge a membership charge fee of 500 dollars (and I made that number up) to expidete would you pay it?

my guess is most would complain about it

 

[Sandisw]

This makes sense but I'll bet you dollars to donuts that IF they wanted to find a way to expedite the process a little more than it is then they could do it. Just like how Disney IT can fix many issues across all their platforms but either take forever to do it or don't at all.

The point is that until they have proof you are no longer an owner , they do not have the right to lock you out of your own property.

Can you imagine if they froze the wrong persons contract and they lose out on bookings?

At least now, it’s frozen when the transfer actually happens and once complete, unfrozen.

And, just so others know, I had access to my contract for about 7 days or so after DVD paid me for the contract they took in ROFR. So, even as a buyer, they don’t change the process!

 

[TheDailyMoo]

They could, but who foots the bill for it ?

if Disney charge a membership charge fee of 500 dollars (and I made that number up) to expidete would you pay it?

my guess is most would complain about it

Just as a note I'm not blaming Disney for this debacle. However I really do believe it wouldn't take Disney much extra effort to put in safeguards that would prevent something like this. With the handful of DVC reps I've spoken to the last few days, I've ascertained that this happens slightly more often than would make any resale buyer comfortable.

 

[Sandisw]

Sorry I was looking for the name of the title company….
but it also sounds like they don’t do that anymore

It was two different ones but I’d have to go back and check. I have bought and sold so much and used many companies.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

It was two different ones but I’d have to go back and check. I have bought and sold so much and used many companies.

Don’t worry about

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Just as a note I'm not blaming Disney for this debacle. However I really do believe it wouldn't take Disney much extra effort to put in safeguards that would prevent something like this. With the handful of DVC reps I've spoken to the last few days, I've ascertained that this happens slightly more often than would make any resale buyer comfortable.

I’m sure you are correct,

this happens often,
disney could do it faster,
and the whole resale thing is kinda full of areas where one could take advantage… the fact that so many contract close without issue does not mean the process is completely safe …

i assume Disney handles resale transfer on a first come, as time allows basis …. Assuming I’m correct, and Disney were to make resale transfers a top priority, that service has a cost…

who do you think you cover that cost,
either Disney charges a change fee,
the membership eats it,
or it doesn’t become a priority…

 

[DanCali]

Maybe that should be written into our contracts (ask them to amend) that if any pts should be missing, the $25 is to be paid by closing agent (or Fidelity maybe?). They will probably balk, but if they want the sale/commision, etc they will make sure the pts are there!
Most companies (and most people too), dont really care unless it affects them in some way. Like do you really think Fidelity or DVC Title 'really' cares about this? They dont.... unless they were getting "lit up" on these and other forums and it would cost them business.
I'm also in favor of some kind of BBB/AG action that specifically deals with timeshare sales in florida. Give them a jingle....

I believe this is already the default with the board sponsor - most of our buys were through them. Their standard purchase contract seems to explicitly say they will take the risk and cover any lost points. In a case like this, it's a huge plus.



The first time I worked with a different broker there was no penalty listed at all, and we had to add it in manually, but they wanted the seller to pay it - that deal fell through anyway because we ended up buying VGF direct. With some other smaller brokers I also saw the seller was required to pay the penalty, and when I asked them to change it they refused. I assume most practical lawyers would not let them do it, or they are too small to take the risk. Unless all buyers start asking for this, they would probably prefer to let you walk rather than take the risk themselves.

 

[tom1944]

I would not expect the process to change unless this is a bigger issue than we are aware of.

If it happens once on every 100 sales it is unlikely to see it changed. If it's once out of every 1,000 sales there is no reason to change.

 

[TheDailyMoo]

I would not expect the process to change unless this is a bigger issue than we are aware of.

If it happens once on every 100 sales it is unlikely to see it changed. If it's once out of every 1,000 sales there is no reason to change.

Until it happens to you. Just being realistic. Not too many people call for change if it never affects them. This is a resale nightmare scenario. Imagine not only not having the points you were guaranteed in your contract but having to pay dues for those points as well.