New Definition of Rental Activity?

[DonMacGregor]

Also worth mentioning: the rental sites actually encourage securing confirmed reservations to rent versus just renting points. They pay more per point, and they will tell you to grab a reservation versus renting points because they rent dates for more money.

 

[JackosinDIS]

Also worth mentioning: the rental sites actually encourage securing confirmed reservations to rent versus just renting points. They pay more per point, and they will tell you to grab a reservation versus renting points because they rent dates and for more money.

To be fair, when I rented through David’s, they were the other way, encouraging to rent points rather than confirmed dates.

I can see why people rent confirmed ressies though… they are going for $36 a point for BWV stays!!! Daylight robbery!

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

To be fair, when I rented through David’s, they were the other way, encouraging to rent points rather than confirmed dates.

I can see why people rent confirmed ressies though… they are going for $36 a point for BWV stays!!! Daylight robbery!

And now BWV owners (I am not one but experience a similar issue at BCV) have a hard time booking their home resort even 11 months out... which is why I personally think Disney needs to crack down. I think Disney itself is more concerned with the fact that people aren't paying $550+ a night to stay at BWV/BCV because they can rent for $400 a night or less.

 

[DonMacGregor]

To be fair, when I rented through David’s, they were the other way, encouraging to rent points rather than confirmed dates.

It's the quiet thing that nobody says out loud, but somehow the message gets out that confirmed reservations are worth way more bank.

 

[DonMacGregor]

The difference between the existing documents and CFW documents is that DVC now has sole discretion to decide whether or not a use is ‘commercial’. That is a big difference if Owners are not allowed to question a decision or provide explanations / require DVC to justify why a decision is reasonable.

Question though: were owners allowed to question decisions previously? I didn't see any language regarding a process for appealing any decisions made by Disney regarding commercial use previously, but there's always plenty of "at Disney's sole discretion" type language peppered throughout just about every document they create.

 

[Disfamwa]

I also wouldn’t be shocked if the hotel side of Disney is fielding a lot more complaints from renters who don’t understand the product they are renting. I’ve seen a couple of renters in Aulani Facebook groups complain that they didn’t receive daily housekeeping at such an expensive resort. I think some people hear of ways they can save money by renting, but don’t understand the differences between renting and booking a room through Disney.

 

[JackosinDIS]

Question though: were owners allowed to question decisions previously? I didn't see any language regarding a process for appealing any decisions made by Disney regarding commercial use previously, but there's always plenty of "at Disney's sole discretion" type language peppered throughout just about every document they create.

My view is that currently we can question decisions regarding commercial use, as the language in the component site POS states that DVC must act ‘reasonably’ in determining what constitutes a commercial purpose.

Generally, where a contract states that a decision by one party must be reasonable, or that the deciding party must act reasonably, it implies an ability to question the outcome of the decision*

*opinion of a ‘friend’ that regularly reviews real estate contracts but is definitely not giving legal advice here.

 

[Genie+]

There isn’t a popular consensus of the rules regarding renting and commercial use. DVC really needs to clarify this.

If they’ve decided the cons have outgrown the pros enough to stir things up with the CFW contract wording, then it is time to set the record straight.

 

[tom1944]

I agree that this may be the first step in Disney taking this in house and I’m all for it. I tried renting once and it was total brain drain. Too much time spent to earn a thousand or so taxable dollars. If there was literally a button click on the website where I could choose to either bank or give back the points to DVC to be inventoried, that would be great by me.

Would taking it in-house mean for someone like me if I wanted to rent my points I would do it through Disney and they would take a fee?

This way they also know how often I put my points on the rental market.

 

[lowlight]

I just caution that we don’t cheer on our own demise. Disney, as a corporation, is incapable of acts of altruism, which means they are doing it to protect their bottom line. We can easily be collateral damage depending on how it’s enforced. I want to see the rental companies smited into the abyss, as they’ve encouraged confirmed reservations and artificially held down the value of rental points and they need to be gone, but I don’t want a Pyrrhic victory where we’ve lost everything to accomplish that. Getting rid of the mass resale and rental market may sound good, but it’s like removing an important part of the DVC ecosystem where we don’t know what unforeseen consequences will happen- like wolves returning to Yellowstone. Maybe the mass rental market is what is buoying the resale value of DVC up, or whatever action DVD takes may tank resale value, etc.

 

[JackosinDIS]

I just caution that we don’t cheer on our own demise. Disney, as a corporation, is incapable of acts of altruism, which means they are doing it to protect their bottom line. We can easily be collateral damage depending on how it’s enforced. I want to see the rental companies smited into the abyss, as they’ve encouraged confirmed reservations and artificially held down the value of rental points and they need to be gone, but I don’t want a Pyrrhic victory where we’ve lost everything to accomplish that. Getting rid of the mass resale and rental market may sound good, but it’s like removing an important part of the DVC ecosystem where we don’t know what unforeseen consequences will happen- like wolves returning to Yellowstone. Maybe the mass rental market is what is buoying the resale value of DVC up, or whatever action DVD takes may tank resale value, etc.

Very true and wise words of advice! There’s no doubt that part of the value of resale is found in the ability for some to rent points exclusively. If that ability is taken away, then I would guess that resale values will drop dramatically as supply will surely outstrip demand.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

I think it had been mentioned earlier, but the more I think about this, the more I wonder if Disney want to put pressure on the rental companies, and the trusts that own maximum points ….

Not the owners that have an extra 200 or 300 point once every few years

 

[Disfamwa]

It's the quiet thing that nobody says out loud, but somehow the message gets out that confirmed reservations are worth way more bank.

I think that the renting of speculative confirmed reservations is the most problematic. I think it’s the most problematic for other owners and for the Disney hotel side. Most renters don’t seem to plan ahead 11 months (like owners and people renting just points have to do to book hard to get reservations), so large commercial renters scoop up certain high profit rooms at 11 months and can afford to hang on to them until renters start looking closer to their actual dates. If these rooms weren’t available closer to when a lot of renters book (because other owners had booked them instead of DVC rental businesses), I bet a large chunk of people would book directly through Disney.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

An ownership interest should only be purchased for personal use and enjoyment by Members and based upon its value as a vacation experience. Ownership interests should not be purchased for resale or rental, as an investment opportunity, or with any expectation of achieving income, capital appreciation, or any other financial return or valuable benefit, including any tax benefit.

^This is written on the bottom of every single page on the DVC site. Unescapable.

View attachment 831114

Occasional rentals. Ok. But how does a renter know if they are getting a legit reservation or one through an owner that is conducting a business with their DVC ownership interests. If someone consistently rents out more points than they ever use, that does not seem like the intention was ever for personal use. What kind of use does that make it?

I think DVC has plenty of room if they want to act.

My Disney experience app,
Link your room

 

[GoingSince1990]

It's the quiet thing that nobody says out loud, but somehow the message gets out that confirmed reservations are worth way more bank.

Neither David's nor the DVC Rental Store seem to particularly encourage the renting of confirmed reservations. DVC Rental Store didn't even accept confirmed reservations to rent until a couple of years ago, and the wording on David's website is:
Our guests prefer to select their required dates, resorts and room types so points available for rent are always more popular than confirmed reservations. We understand that sometimes an confirmed reservation made by a owner can not be safely cancelled without possible risk to the owner and so for that reason, we offer the ability to rent confirmed reservations made by owners. We will advertise the confirmed reservation exactly as it is made, offering it for the points required. Pricing will follow our current model of standard and premium.
And both sites will only pay you a maximum of $18 per point for renting a confirmed reservation.

 

[MB_Ellie]

But, curiously, it makes zero mention of the new language, and uses the old language to support the freedom to rent points.

Because this was written prior to the new language being released.

 

[Genie+]

My Disney experience app,
Link your room

Lol - I just went to see if any wording is in there and I found a surprise trip DH booked for the end of this month!

A quick weekend at AKL.

But I didn’t find any wording regarding rentals - is there any? This seems like something DVC could do.

 

[kilik64]

But what will people have to complain about when they don’t get their ressie for (insert hard to get res date) if we get rid of the big bad rental companies who had to make that res same as anyone else since dvc is first come first serve?

Killing the rental market is not going to benefit people the way they think it will…

This move is all for the benefit of Disney, no one else, and you’re naive if you think otherwise.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Lol - I just went to see if any wording is in there and I found a surprise trip DH booked for the end of this month!

A quick weekend at AKL.

But I didn’t find any wording regarding rentals - is there any? This seems like something DVC could do.

Your welcome ?

 

[lowlight]

But what will people have to complain about when they don’t get their ressie for (insert hard to get res date) if we get rid of the big bad rental companies who had to make that res same as anyone else since dvc is first come first serve?

Killing the rental market is not going to benefit people the way they think it will…

This move is all for the benefit of Disney, no one else, and you’re naive if you think otherwise.

I agree with your last two statements, but disagree with the first. The people abusing the rental system are overwhelmingly in the mass rental business. I tried to rent points to one site and the lady had me make several prime week budget (think Riv tower on Presidents’ Day etc) unit reservations, and ultimately I didn’t want to do that and didn’t work with the company and canceled the reservations. They had several hundred of those reservations for rent. Not to mention the thousands of points LLCs walking reservations. Of course this problem won’t go away when if they stop these big players as general owners are now in the habit of walking and spec renting weeks, but at least the scale will change. You are right though, Disney don’t give a hoot about helping us it’s for their bottom line.