Buying dvc advice if someone asks about it

[Sandisw]

I know 6 people from my department at my job alone.

I am considering buying but that is because I am finally in great financial shape and happen to be getting an unexpected bonus.

So I see it as fun money. I considered buying a boat, an EV and even just a new car. I am not a car guy and the boat would be an even bigger financial commitment than DVC.

Congratulations! DVC is about vacations and enjoying it for trips to Disney for hopefully, less than what it would cost you to continue to be a cash guest.

IMO the true value is in its use, and as long as one will get enjoyment out of that, the rest is a bonus! We love it and even if we have to give it away when we were done, we will have more than gotten our money’s worth on what we have spent!

 

[E2ME2]

I know 6 people from my department at my job alone.

I am considering buying but that is because I am finally in great financial shape and happen to be getting an unexpected bonus.

So I see it as fun money. I considered buying a boat, an EV and even just a new car. I am not a car guy and the boat would be an even bigger financial commitment than DVC.

When I bought in I knew of 2 other families that owned, both in my church. They never led me to DVC, I explored it at the Disney Springs KIOSK. When I added on, I referred one of them and they received a $100 Gify Card. Then, after buying in, I ran into 2 other coworkers that were owners, and a 3rd that was interested. The 3rd coworker is now an owner also, and she used me as a reference, but I did not receive any promotional gift for that reference. None of these folks are tiring of their DVC use, but they are concerned about the overall direction of Disney-Corporate. Now in retirement, we use our points to escape winter, and I still wish I had bought more points back in 2010 when I first caught this disease!

 

[tom1944]

When I bought in I knew of 2 other families that owned, both in my church. They never led me to DVC, I explored it at the Disney Springs KIOSK. When I added on, I referred one of them and they received a $100 Gify Card. Then, after buying in, I ran into 2 other coworkers that were owners, and a 3rd that was interested. The 3rd coworker is now an owner also, and she used me as a reference, but I did not receive any promotional gift for that reference. None of these folks are tiring of their DVC use, but they are concerned about the overall direction of Disney-Corporate. Now in retirement, we use our points to escape winter, and I still wish I had bought more points back in 2010 when I first caught this disease!

I hope to use it for a few weeks during the winter also

As a fallback my daughter and granddaughter can use it for their vacation if we don’t

I am strongly leaning to buying however I want to make sure we are committed to using at least every 18 months

I am in research mode now and I will not be purchasing until at earliest February

 

[Matty B13]

I don't think we would have bought if our retirements/401ks weren't in a really good place for our ages, and had very secure jobs. We only financed because it wasn't a stretch for us financially at the time and we had really young kids and paid them off in under 3 years. I know that most of the contracts we bought resale were sold less than 3 years after they were bought from DVC Direct, so I'm guessing that people lost money on these contracts.

 

[tom1944]

I don't think we would have bought if our retirements/401ks weren't in a really good place for our ages, and had very secure jobs. We only financed because it wasn't a stretch for us financially at the time and we had really young kids and paid them off in under 3 years. I know that most of the contracts we bought resale were sold less than 3 years after they were bought from DVC Direct, so I'm guessing that people lost money on these contracts.

That is interesting.

I wanted to buy back in the 1990’s and while I could regret that now seeing the current price. I have to be honest and admit I would have been selling in a short period of ownership also.

We just could not have made it work at the time.

 

[bakerworld]

I always tell people that DVC only saves on room cost and the most expensive part - tickets, air and food - are not discounted. People usually lose interest after than.

 

[DonMacGregor]

And let's be real. There are plenty of people who have absolutely lost their shirts buying DVC. I would even include people financing in that category. This is still a timeshare. Heck, we could all lose our shirts on this thing. It's risk. And, with things like RIV's policies, it is acting increasingly timeshare-y. I don't want that to be on me.

Some of us can't/won't lose our shirts, because our shirts aren't on the line. If DVC disappeared tomorrow, it wouldn't affect me financially one bit (but I WOULD be sad). I spend what I call "Vegas Money" on DVC: money that I could lose gambling or in some other pointless endeavor, and have no regrets or suffer any financial harm as a result. No one should ever be in a position where any event involving a timeshare you purchased has the potential to be financially damaging. It's discretionary spending (and at the bottom of the discretionary list, and WAY below savings and retirement investments for long-term financial security).

So I see it as fun money. I considered buying a boat, an EV and even just a new car. I am not a car guy and the boat would be an even bigger financial commitment than DVC.

Precisely.

I don't think we would have bought if our retirements/401ks weren't in a really good place for our ages, and had very secure jobs. We only financed because it wasn't a stretch for us financially at the time and we had really young kids and paid them off in under 3 years. I know that most of the contracts we bought resale were sold less than 3 years after they were bought from DVC Direct, so I'm guessing that people lost money on these contracts.

Exactly. I will also add (because it's bound to come up), that there is no argument that I "lost" money because I could have, instead of purchasing DVC, put it into (insert financial instrument of your choice here) at ABC% and made $XYZ over the next 30 years. The money was never going to be invested. That's a separate bucket that doesn't get touched. It is income never intended to be added to wealth.

It's the same money you spend buying $500 NFL tickets to a game that's going to be on TV anyway, or in buying a fully-optioned car when the base model will get you where you're going just as well. It's deciding you want the ocean-view room at the hotel when you're going to be gone during 90% of the daylight time when you can actually see the water, or purchasing a travel trailer to camp next to the guy sleeping in a tent tent thrown in the back of his truck next to his cooler.

If there is any advice I'd give to anyone buying any timeshare product (although personally I would never buy anything beyond DVC), it's to make sure you never spend one penny outside of your discretionary spending budget. If there are any "what if", "I sure hope", or "I need to figure out how I can get out of this if I need to" concerns, then maybe that money isn't quite so discretionary and maybe it's not where that particular portion of your spending should be made.

 

[RoseGold]

If DVC disappeared tomorrow, it wouldn't affect me financially one bit (but I WOULD be sad). I spend what I call "Vegas Money" on DVC: money that I could lose gambling or in some other pointless endeavor, and have no regrets or suffer any financial harm as a result.

I don't know many people who would be indifferent to losing five figures. Myself included. And if I did know such people, I am guessing they would expect higher quality toilet paper. And honestly, there are MUCH nicer Orlando hotels than Disney in general and DVC in particular.

This is like buying a boat. I wouldn't try to talk a co-worker into it, even if I thought boats were the coolest thing ever. If they want to make luxury decisions, they are adults and can figure it out for themselves without my influence.

I also think this is generational. Timeshares earned their reputation. I don't know anyone under 40 who would want it publicly known they own a timeshare. It's something very few people in my life even know about. If a co-worker asked me about it, I would downplay it as not a big deal and downplay what I spent on it.

 

[Sandisw]

I don't know many people who would be indifferent to losing five figures. Myself included. And if I did know such people, I am guessing they would expect higher quality toilet paper. And honestly, there are MUCH nicer Orlando hotels than Disney in general and DVC in particular.

This is like buying a boat. I wouldn't try to talk a co-worker into it, even if I thought boats were the coolest thing ever. If they want to make luxury decisions, they are adults and can figure it out for themselves without my influence.

I also think this is generational. Timeshares earned their reputation. I don't know anyone under 40 who would want it publicly known they own a timeshare. It's something very few people in my life even know about. If a co-worker asked me about it, I would downplay it as not a big deal and downplay what I spent on it.

Isn’t there a difference though between lost and spent?

You don’t buy DVC, timeshare or not, to make money or to even be able to sell it later to get your money back, whether is some, all, or more.

If anyone is asking and that is their mindset then I agree they should not buy.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I don't know many people who would be indifferent to losing five figures.

The money is gone the minute you spend it. There’s a big difference between being happy that it’s gone, and being adversely affected by its departure.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Isn’t there a difference though between lost and spent?

Winner winner, chicken dinner.

 

[RoseGold]

Of course there's a difference. You don't have to lock in five figures to shackle yourself into a few decades of timeshare to go to WDW. Most people shouldn't.

There is obvious risk in buying into any timeshare. It's why I would be very careful what I recommend. Disney has been very clear who they are looking out for, and it's not me.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I don't know many people who would be indifferent to losing five figures. Myself included. And if I did know such people, I am guessing they would expect higher quality toilet paper. And honestly, there are MUCH nicer Orlando hotels than Disney in general and DVC in particular.

Out of curiosity, given there are so many better options in Orlando, both TP-specific and otherwise, why do YOU keep your DVC membership? I mean, you've probably mentioned "TP" and "Swolphin" dozens of times here on the boards, yet here you are once again expecting better toilet paper.

As for me, I DO stay in nicer hotels, both for business and for leisure travel (I'm actually a Marriott Bonvoy Platinum Elite member). I'm one of those folks who's actually stayed at the "real" over-water bungalows at the St. Regis in Bora Bora. In fact, I'll be at the Ritz Carlton Grande Lakes for a few days in March, after staying at BRV for a week. We own DVC (our only timeshare) solely for the ambiance and location within the Disney bubble. I don't "need" a nicer roll of TP to elevate the experience. I can buy the same TP as they have at the Ritz for a couple of bucks. I can even grab a few little foil stickers off Amazon for a buck or two more to put on the wrapper if I desperately need that validation. Toilet paper has one inglorious task to perform. It's binary: either it does that simple task or it doesn't. As the owner of a construction consulting firm, I've paid many a visit to a porta-john and survived the ordeal just fine.

DVC isn't a Four Seasons or a Ritz-Carlton, a St. Regis or a Mandarin Oriental, and anyone who thinks it is or should be is sorely delusional. If someone thinks they are paying enough money with their DVC membership to warrant the level of service afforded by those chains, they are even further deluded. We're not talking hotel cash rates, we're talking DVC.

By the way, the member rate for the RC for 3/16-3/19 stay (pre-pay, non-refundable) is $901 for a single king room ($3,202.88 total, including tax). To rent a studio villa at BRV that weekend at $22 per point, 61 points, is $1,342. For nearly 2 grand more, I'd expect a nicer set of sheets and softer TP. My cost per point for my BRV contract is $13.76 so the weekend would cost me $839.36. For $2,363.52 LESS, I'm willing to forgo the TP for the location and experience.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Disney has been very clear who they are looking out for, and it's not me.

Yet here you stay...

And what's with the whole "five figures" thing?

 

[ParkHoppers]

My advice is whatever you do don’t call it timeshare. Eyes glaze over.

 

[RoseGold]

Out of curiosity, given there are so many better options in Orlando, both TP-specific and otherwise, why do YOU keep your DVC membership? I mean, you've probably mentioned "TP" and "Swolphin" dozens of times here on the boards, yet here you are once again expecting better toilet paper.

DVC has a lot of limitations, the TP is an obvious one, but I can keep going. There are many others. If you want someone to tell you how great and magical DVC is and break it into an easy monthly payment to save you 40%, they have a phone number for that.

I use Swolphin because it flips the math. I did the math to buy in 2018. The AoA suite went up faster than I calculated, but the room that didn't was Swolphin. I would have been better mathematically staying at Swolphin. And yea, I do think Swolphin has better beds and TP. Disney, as a hotelier, is one of the worst I deal with. Today, I would argue renting points is a better choice, mathematically.

I own a lot of DVC, I like DVC. I like the game of DVC and I don't mind the limitations. I literally have TP in my owner's locker. Reality is there are a LOT of choices that aren't buying into a five figure timeshare. DVC is not for everyone. This is a big discussion about a lot of money. For me, I would be careful what I say recommending something like this, especially to someone at work.

 

[tjkraz]

Here's the note I would send:

Hi, this is X. We have been happy with our DVC, but when we bought it was much cheaper. DVC is at all time highs, and it would be hard for me to recommend someone buy right now. IMO, Disney has been making questionable decisions, and I am not even sure we will hold if Disney continues in this direction.

This reeks of "do as I say, not as I do."

I don't know anyone in the real world DVC would be right for. If I thought someone was maybe right for it, I would still be tempered in giving this kind of advice. And this is a co-worker it sounds like OP doesn't even know, so she has no idea if it's right for them.

OP wasn't asked to judge whether or not DVC was right for another family.

I've been asked this a few times and said they need to do a whole lot more research. And a couple times when I talked people out of it with specifics about DVC's downsides, and there are many. Someone had a relative I've never even met call me from the kiosk, and I told them to slow down and not buy there. I'm sure that guide was thrilled with me. I still do not know another human in real life who owns DVC.

You've essentially made it your life's work to discourage people from buying DVC. Are we supposed to be surprised that you don't know anyone else who owns?

(We know at least 4 families who are also members, only one of which is an occasional traveling companion. And none of whom asked for our feedback before buying. Weird how people make such decisions all on their own.)

 

[tjkraz]

Disney, as a hotelier, is one of the worst I deal with. Today, I would argue renting points is a better choice, mathematically.

Really?
So if someone fully anticipates visiting WDW or DL annually for the next 15+ years, you think renting points is better than owning?

That's some math.

 

[RoseGold]

You've essentially made it your life's work to discourage people from buying DVC. Are we supposed to be surprised that you don't know anyone else who owns?

On these boards, I've recommended people buy all the time. I've even talked people into buying direct.

But DVC is not right for most people. IRL, especially with co-workers, a timeshare is not something I would want to be even talking about. Especially because I'm under 40 and live nowhere near WDW. So a timeshare and Disney are not exactly why I want to stand out.

So if someone fully anticipates visiting WDW or DL annually for the next 15+ years, you think renting points is better than owning?

Yea, right now, I would pick renting or staying cash over buying. DVC will still be there in a couple years, and prices are in flux. If they're really in it for the long haul, I would be waiting for Poly2. It could be a better product than RIV IMO. I don't ever think DVC is a gotta act now kind of thing. But that's the kind of thing that would require a specific discussion. Not an overview of DVC, which is all over the internet.

 

[tjkraz]

Yea, right now, I would pick renting or staying cash over buying. DVC will still be there in a couple years, and prices are in flux. If they're really in it for the long haul, I would be waiting for Poly2. It could be a better product than RIV IMO.

Yes it COULD be a better product than others. But that doesn't really have any relevance to "mathematics." Poly 2 WILL be a more expensive product.

Recommending specific resorts and purchase methods is where I typically draw the line. THAT is exactly where pricing uncertainty comes into play and I'm not taking responsibility for that decision. It's also where personal preference weighs the heaviest. If someone wants to pay a premium for 19 years of BCV, so be it.

But if someone has the means and inclination to buy, renting is throwing away money. Every time a non-member rents points, it costs them at least $12. That's a rental fee of roughly $20 less the ~$8 of dues they would otherwise pay as DVC owners.

Buying today the price is $207 less incentives. Poly 2 will not be $207. It will not be $217. There will be another price increase. Let's say $224 less incentives.

So if an individual decides that DVC is right for them now, renting for two years at $12 each and then buying for $224 means they're paying $248 (less incentives.) Or buy today for $207 and start using the points immediately.

Again, I'm not going to tell people exactly what to do with their money. But "rent for a few years and then buy" has RARELY proven itself to be money-saving strategy. People should certainly do whatever research they feel is necessary. Take a special trip to tour resorts if they are able. Buy resale. Buy direct.

But when people wait, prices go up. Especially direct prices.