Caribbean Beach to Close & Move the Staff to Pop Centry

[ztbz]

A firend of mine at work told me that his wife who works at the Caribbean Beach has heard that Disney is taking about closing the Caribbean Beach down and move all the stuff to run the POP Centry Resort. Pop Centry would then open by Mid-Summer 2002.

 

[Banzai]

If that's true...can't they just split half the staft to CBR and Half to PC?

 

[toefungus]

I don't know why they would do that. It would be cheaper for them to just stop construction on Pop Century and leave CB as it is.

 

[jdads2]

toefungus: They can't market a new resort by keeping CBR open and not opening Pop Century. I am willing to bet that putting the construction of Pop century on hold is costing them money. Granted it is less than building it but they won't make money on a partially constructed resort.

Just my two cents...worth a lot less if you ask my DW

 

[Planogirl]

But they just refurbished CBR and closing it seems completely illogical. Of course, it would add weight to the argument that Disney wants to get rid of most of the moderates.

 

[SPAGo 98]

Highly doubt it. CBR has a great reputation among moderates...

 

[All Aboard]

Let's assume this is true. Let's also assume that rumors of the complete demise of PO & DxL are also true. Let's further assume that rumors of CSR being a convention-only in the near future to also be true. If so, WDW will have successfully eliminated the moderate option. A strategy that some here seem to agree with.

If that's the case what dynamic do you create? A guest who normally stays at a moderate calls to book. He/she is told that there is no availability. The guest either 1) is comfortable with the All Stars or 2) uncomfortable with the All Stars. Guest 1 inquires about availabilty. If it exists, he/she books there. If not then the guest is either A) willing to pony up more cash to stay at a deluxe or B) unwilling and goes off site.

Guest 2 has the same A & B choices since he/she has already ruled out the moderates.

This decision matrix points to the reason that moderates exist in the first place. They are a pricing point option - plain and simple. A necessary pricing point in a solid accomodations strategy.

 

[YoHo]

As perhaps the only one here that really thinks it likely that they may be getting rid of the moderates (I don't WANT them to get rid of them, I just could see a logic to it) I would simply say that the reason that they may eliminate that group of hotels, is because there simply aren't enough of either caller A or Caller B for then to care. It simply doesn't matter what the handful of guests unwilling to up or downgrade want.
That's the only way I can see this as a logical move.


And don't all of you post that you like the moderates, because there aren't enough members on the DIS to account for all those rooms.

 

[hopemax]

Can I make a prediction

In about 5 years, people flipping through the WDW travel brochure will still see Moderates, they'll be called the All-Stars and the Pop Century Hotels. And there will be posts on the DIS about how the All-Stars used to get slammed when they were value resorts and now we're supposed to believe they're moderates! And the newer members will tell us all the reasons the All-Stars are great moderates and the people who can't see that must have other "issues" and definately don't understand business and quit complaining!

And I'm trying to rack my brain for any one I know (in everyday life who isn't me or my parents) who has visited WDW and didn't stay in 1. a moderate 2. Shades of Green or 3. with family...let me get back to you.

 

[Another Voice]

Ms. Max - how did you get in that planning meeting? I thought those things were secret? Disney can run thousands of more rooms of "Value" with the same staff that it takes to run fewer "Moderate" rooms. I'll let everyone figure out the rest of the "logic" that's going on behind WDW's planning these days.

P.S. The rumor is that when the Pop Century finally does open, the classification of the All Stars will be changed since they offer more amenities than the PC does. Happy New Year

 

[All Aboard]

YoHo, during better economic times WDW filled 7,000 moderate rooms a night. Someone must like them.

Hope, But "moderate" is just a point of reference. One that implies that it lies between other things. Like a "moderator". It's a clever name to apply to that class of resorts at WDW. It gets the point across to the buyer. I know your post was mostly tongue in cheek, but perhaps the strategy is up WDW's sleeve. Eliminate the moderates and then close the pricing gap between the Values and the Deluxes. But that would be contrary to what the insiders here on this board have told us about the Moderate strategy.

See, if the moderates only serve the purpose of either a) proving lodging when the deluxes are full or b) causing otherwise deluxe stayers to "buy-down" then what in the world would cause the otherwise deluxe stayers to pay more money for the values?

At rack rates, the values are $75-$100 and the moderates are $125-$150. You step up to $200 to stay at a deluxe. How much more can you charge for the values if you eliminate the middle category? You cetainly cannot get over $100 in value season. You are going to lose guests to off-site hotels.

There is a market balance at WDW right now, and the impact of disrupting it by eliminating a category of accomodations will be negative in the long run. The variance is just too big. Those 7,000 rooms serve a purpose, but I guess I'm the only person that believes that.


AV, what are the differences in services at AS v. PC? I cannot imagine that there is a difference.

 

[YoHo]

hopemax, personally, I've stayed offsite, at deluxes and at home away from home, never at a moderate. not that I wouldn't, I just haven't.

I'm not suggesting they aren't well liked during the good times, just that they aren't being utilized during the bad.

 

[seashoreCM]

How much more renovation does CBR need? Are you sure it is not a matter of a temporary shutdown of CBR while restaurants and common facilities are renovated? Supposedlly POR would be fully renovated and open again at the time.

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[DancingBear]

I can't believe this will happen, because:

1--You don't walk away from the capital invested in the moderates, particularly given the renovations just finished at CBR.

2--Disney's strategy has been to try to lock up as much of the market as possible which had previously gone off-site. Lots of off-site hotels would be ready to lure folks back if the moderates shut down.

3--Just how much less staff does it take to run the Value resorts? You still need maid service for every occupied room. There is much less landscaping and no sit-down restaurants, but is this really a significant cost savings, if moderates are going for 30% higher per room. And couldn't they just reduce some of the moderate "extras" if they want to cut staff? As gcurling points out, you can't raise Value rates much (relatively inelastic), so steering folks from moderates to Values doesn't seem to make sense.

4--What seems to make more sense is making sure that moderates aren't "stealing" bookings from deluxe hotels. But if you don't offer more discounts at the deluxes, aren't you likely, again, to lose a good portion of the moderate folks to off-site? And if you DO offer more discounts at the deluxes, aren't you defeating the purpose?

5--Why would you make Coronado Springs a convention-only hotel? How would that save money? Don't you still need all of the same facilities and services? It seems best to do what they do now---priority to conventions, then open to others to fill up the resort. Remember that convention hotels at WDW don't just exist for the convention business, but to lure folks to bring their families down with them and to extend their stay beyond the convention dates. I had a friend who worked as an attorney for the WDW sports complex, and their strategy for event planning and such was all built around filling up hotel rooms.

It seems most likely to me that WDW will continue to keep the moderates open, but will become more aggressive about managing room availability with partial shutdowns and shifting staff as we have seen lately. WDW will monitor their booking rates at the value and deluxe resorts and at off-site and respond accordingly.

 

[DancingBear]

Originally posted by YoHo
hopemax, personally, I've stayed offsite, at deluxes and at home away from home, never at a moderate. not that I wouldn't, I just haven't.

I'm not suggesting they aren't well liked during the good times, just that they aren't being utilized during the bad.

With $49 rates at the All-Stars, and discounts and closed rooms at the deluxes, it seems that utilization is down at all levels.

 

[hopemax]

It was half tongue-in-check, with a gut feeling that it will happen. By raising the price $5 every year or two, the All-Stars are starting to go over a $100. "Value" seems like a misnomer. So farm out the old moderates to the military, cruise line, whatever. Grant them a "special" status. Rename the All-Stars, add a bike rental place, and if Disney is being really generous, maybe even do a little remodel and add a lounge with a breakfast buffet ala DxL, and viola! new moderate.

I actually, as I was posting, was thinking that all that really needed to happen was for the All-Stars to move up, Pop-Century could be the new $75 "value" place. Then AV goes and suggests it. Other ideas for "values" is they build new, cheaper ones (but it's not exactly a good time for that), change the status for some of those off-property Disney partner hotels to "values." But leaving the Pop Century as the "value" and promoting the All-Stars does seem the easiest.

I definetely agree there is a purpose to the Moderates. But selling a moderate with a $150+ price tag during summer, or a value with a $100+ may be too difficult, bad economy aside. They won't drop the price, so other strategies needed to be taken into account. So I think the purpose of this sort of restructuring, does actually have the guest in mind somewhat. At least someone recognizes that they are starting to outprice a key market. But it's not really, the guest just ends up paying the same as they always did for the things they always did, but it has a different name.

And I wish I had said it way back when, but I first started fearing reclassification when the All-Stars started advertising "preferred" rooms...which were the same ol' rooms they had before but some just $10 more expensive. I don't believe our current economic situation has much to do with this strategy (if it does happen). But it did speed up the timetable and the urgency.

 

[phillybeth]

Anyone else remember the days when the Wilderness Lodge was a moderate? Before it opened and for a few months after, it was priced as a moderate. Then when the god$ realized its popularity they added limited room service, raised prices, and voila, a Deluxe!!

 

[Buckleybunch]

My husband just asked me that today.
I called to tell him the "new" rumor about CBR. He said isn't Wilderness Lodge a mod. I said no.. He asked if AKL was.. I again said NO. My husband thinks of the "grand" resorts as being the deluxe's.

 

[Planogirl]

This comment from AV worries me:

"The rumor is that when the Pop Century finally does open, the classification of the All Stars will be changed since they offer more amenities than the PC does."

In other words, Pop Century will offer fewer amenities than the Allstars. How can any hotel offer fewer amenities than the Allstars? My brain hurts.

 

[gary]

How can it make sense to build new "value" properties while closing moderates? The moderates generate more $$ per room, and have no further capital investment required (other than maintenance) whereas the unbuilt value properties are not generating a dime and will cost $$ before they do. Are the recurring costs on the moderates so overwhelming compared to the value resorts that it makes sense to dump them?

I've only stayed at DxL, the Poly, and the Contemp, before joining DVC (BWV), so I'm no expert on the hotel variety. But I still don't get it. Even if CBR goes for the cruise line only, what about DxL (or whatever they call it this week)? Refurb it and sell it to the DVC?

Gary