Coronavirus and DCL Megathread - Suspension of Departures for the fleet until early November. Booking only available from early December.

[gotomu212]

The CDC and other health officials don't control cruise ships' access to our nation's ports: state and federal elected officials do, and most of them don't want the cruise industry to die on the vine. After a few months, our ports will probably open, along with the rest of society, as it dawns on all of our leaders that we can't realistically lock down our economy for several months on end. I think a federal ban on lawsuits against institutions by people who get COVID is the key to society getting back to normal.

Just to clarify the No Sail Order is issued by the CDC and does control access. Under specific conditions, US code has CDC setting the guidelines. Some of that is in the CFR which the executive branch can amend, but some of it is USC law that would require congressional action to amend. I wanted to correct that statement so people wouldn’t think an individual governor could override the CDC no sail order (and the specific order notes that state nor USCG cannot supersede the instructions and rules). The president could replace HHS and CDC secretaries/directors but that would also require Senate approval for his replacements so in this one particular area health officials have more authority than normal.

 

[Mainsail Minnie]

I am heartened by Dr. Fauci’s enthusiasm for remdesivir, but how long will it take for Gilead to manufacture enough whereby cruise ships can keep sufficient doses on-hand?

I doubt cruise ships would have Remdesivir on hand anytime soon, as it's currently still under initial safety testing and is only FDA authorized for emergency use. It is given by infusion in a hospital setting; it is not a pill that can be easily handed out.

It's promising in that it lessens the chance that COVID will be a death sentence to the most vulnerable, but it isn't likely to be used by anyone during a cruise in the forseeable future.

 

[Mainsail Minnie]

Just to clarify the No Sail Order is issued by the CDC and does control access. Under specific conditions, US code has CDC setting the guidelines. Some of that is in the CFR which the executive branch can amend, but some of it is USC law that would require congressional action to amend. I wanted to correct that statement so people wouldn’t think an individual governor could override the CDC no sail order (and the specific order notes that state nor USCG cannot supersede the instructions and rules). The president could replace HHS and CDC secretaries/directors but that would also require Senate approval for his replacements so in this one particular area health officials have more authority than normal.

Agreed- I wasn't referring to governors & know it's a national decision. I was referring to the pressure state-elected Congressional senators and representatives put on the executive branch, which includes the CDC. I edited my post to avoid that misconception and clarify my meaning.

 

[squirk]

I doubt cruise ships would have Remdesivir on hand anytime soon, as it's currently still under initial safety testing and is only FDA authorized for emergency use. It is given by infusion in a hospital setting; it is not a pill that can be easily handed out.

It's promising in that it lessens the chance that COVID will be a death sentence to the most vulnerable, but it isn't likely to be used by anyone during a cruise in the forseeable future.

Right - that’s what I meant: no time soon, and no guarantee it’s an appropriate across-the-board treatment. And even if it was, is it something cruise ships should or could have on-hand to administer in emergency cases?

Like, if someone tests positive and is part of an at-risk population, do you make a bee-line to the nearest port? What if you’re far out at sea - do (or should) you administer the drug as a prophylactic measure?

Or do you just keep those vulnerable people off the ship?

 

[Mainsail Minnie]

Right - that’s what I meant: no time soon, and no guarantee it’s an appropriate across-the-board treatment. And even if it was, is it something cruise ships should or could have on-hand to administer in emergency cases?

I don't know the rules on that, but again, it's currently only given when the illness is advanced. How many people are going to board the ship apparently healthy, and then progress to critical condition within the span of a typical DCL cruise? Most DCL cruises are 3 - 7 nights. If a patient did manage to progress from apparently healthy to critical in that time frame, an air evacuation (like they do for heart attacks) seems like a more likely course of action than a cruise line being authorized to infuse an experimental, emergency-use only drug.

Keeping the most vulnerable off the ship is a good idea. Boarding might be refused to those over 75, for example. They already refuse boarding to women who are past a certain week of pregnancy due to the risks, so I could see the cruise lines restricting boarding by age due to COVID.

 

[o&smom]

Right - that’s what I meant: no time soon, and no guarantee it’s an appropriate across-the-board treatment. And even if it was, is it something cruise ships should or could have on-hand to administer in emergency cases?

Like, if someone tests positive and is part of an at-risk population, do you make a bee-line to the nearest port? What if you’re far out at sea - do (or should) you administer the drug as a prophylactic measure?

Or do you just keep those vulnerable people off the ship?

Vulnerable people should keep themselves off of the ships and continue with as much “social distancing” as they can to keep themselves healthy.

 

[Kp128]

Vulnerable people should keep themselves off of the ships and continue with as much “social distancing” as they can to keep themselves healthy.

I agree with you. Would a business really discriminate against a certain age group? Is that legal? I don’t know I’m not a lawyer. I’ve never heard of such a thing.

 

[o&smom]

I agree with you. Would a business really discriminate against a certain age group? Is that legal? I don’t know I’m not a lawyer. I’ve never heard of such a thing.

Even without the discrimination issue, vulnerable people are going to have to do more to protect themselves. If they want to stay as safe as they can, they will need to keep as much distance as possible and limit contact. I am lucky enough not to be in that group and to have also had the virus and recovered fully, but if I were in one of the vulnerable groups I would be keeping as much distance as possible until I felt okay with treatments, etc. available to me.

Also, I think we are all going to have to sign a waiver of some kind saying that we take full responsibility for our health related to sickness from Covid 19. Even with this out break, I do think keeping some people from things others are allowed to do will be considered discrimination.

 

[Kp128]

Even without the discrimination issue, vulnerable people are going to have to do more to protect themselves. If they want to stay as safe as they can, they will need to keep as much distance as possible and limit contact. I am lucky enough not to be in that group and to have also had the virus and recovered fully, but if I were in one of the vulnerable groups I would be keeping as much distance as possible until I felt okay with treatments, etc. available to me.

Also, I think we are all going to have to sign a waiver of some kind saying that we take full responsibility for our health related to sickness from Covid 19. Even with this out break, I do think keeping some people from things others are allowed to do will be considered discrimination.

Someone compared it to pregnant women, but pregnancy is a medical condition. A healthy 85 year old would be denied boarding strictly due to age. I don’t think that is right.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I don't know that I would want a cruise ship doctor giving me an experimental IV drug anyway.

Specialization has its place in medicine.

 

[KevinFL]

I don't know that I would want a cruise ship doctor giving me an experimental IV drug anyway.

Specialization has its place in medicine.

True. "Medical errors" are the 3rd leading cause of death in the US. Check out link below.

Also, if the virus is not under control then the idea of an antiviral on board does zero for me. Ever gotten sick on a vacation? Is awful. And would be very stressful to catch this wondering how your body will handle it while stuck on the ship.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

 

[randumb0]

We are all speculating but I feel that cruises may require a test prior to boarding

 

[allashore]

I agree with you. Would a business really discriminate against a certain age group? Is that legal? I don’t know I’m not a lawyer. I’ve never heard of such a thing.

beside discrimination against a certain age group...……...
they would lose multi generational customers, how many times have you cruised with or have seen 3 & 4 generations dinning together, at shows, etc

 

[T & R]

Would a business really discriminate against a certain age group? Is that legal?

Happens all the time. How many times have you seen the sign at the bar that says that can refuse service to anyone (many bars onboard the ship). When I was younger I went to a club in NYC and their minimum age to get in was 23. So a 22 yr old voting, tax paying adult was discriminated against due to nothing but their age. I was at Denny's and had to pay more for the same meal that my parents got because they were over 55 yrs. I went to an apartment complex that only rents to seniors. I wont even get into the tobacco, alcohol and firearms thing because the laws there lack any sense (a 20 yr old can serve in the military, vote, buy a rifle/ammo, sign a contract, etc but cannot buy a glass of wine?).

Also, I do not think age is a protected status. Since the cruise terminal is a port of entry, it may fall under federal law like an airport does. Federal law states that a business cannot discriminate based on race, religion, sex or national origin. Makes no mention of age. A lot of people throw sexual orientation or gender identity in there as a protected status too but that is usually state law, most states and federal law have no prohibition of a business discriminating based on sexual orientation.

The above is regarding a private business discriminating service based on age and has nothing to do with employment law. There are some age and sexual orientation federal employment laws but that would have nothing to do with the mentioned scenario of getting on the boat as a customer and not a job applicant.

 

[Mainsail Minnie]

I agree with you. Would a business really discriminate against a certain age group? Is that legal? I don’t know I’m not a lawyer. I’ve never heard of such a thing.

If the CDC restricted cruising to those under the age of 75 until the pandemic is over, then it would not be discrimination on the part of the cruise line.

I don't think it's discriminatory at all: it's based on data-based health risk factors. The analogy to pregnant women is apt. Women in the final stage of pregnancy cannot fly or cruise because of the medical risk of premature birth, which is a data-based health risk. Those over 75 are much, much more likely to suffer severe complications and/or death from COVID than any other group in society, and since we're in the midst of a COVID pandemic, not allowing them on cruises is totally logical.

 

[Kp128]

If the CDC restricted cruising to those under the age of 75 until the pandemic is over, then it would not be discrimination on the part of the cruise line.

I don't think it's discriminatory at all: it's based on data-based health risk factors. The analogy to pregnant women is apt. Women in the final stage of pregnancy cannot fly or cruise because of the medical risk of premature birth, which is a data-based health risk. Those over 75 are much, much more likely to suffer severe complications and/or death from COVID than any other group in society, and since we're in the midst of a COVID pandemic, not allowing them on cruises is totally logical.

African American have a disproportionately higher rate of death from Covid. Should we ban that group too. I think it's a slippery slope.

 

[DisneyWishes14]

I agree with you. Would a business really discriminate against a certain age group? Is that legal? I don’t know I’m not a lawyer. I’ve never heard of such a thing.

If the CDC restricted cruising to those under the age of 75 until the pandemic is over, then it would not be discrimination on the part of the cruise line.

I don't think it's discriminatory at all: it's based on data-based health risk factors. The analogy to pregnant women is apt. Women in the final stage of pregnancy cannot fly or cruise because of the medical risk of premature birth, which is a data-based health risk. Those over 75 are much, much more likely to suffer severe complications and/or death from COVID than any other group in society, and since we're in the midst of a COVID pandemic, not allowing them on cruises is totally logical.

I don't think there will be an outright ban on people of a certain age. In early March, CLIA, the cruise industry trade group, proposed to US authorities that member cruise lines would deny boarding to any person over the age of 70 unless they present a note from a doctor stating that they are fit to travel on board a cruise ship. Those restrictions were rescinded in early April. There was tremendous push-back from guests, particularly of the cruise lines that attract an older demographic (HAL, Princess, etc.). Those lines will have difficulty selling staterooms if there is an outright ban on older guests. Is a ban even legal? I, personally, have no clue. I think CLIA is going to come up with a way to navigate around an outright ban by implementing health forms, waivers, etc. Also, if they can come up with a proposal that the CDC signs off on according to what is being asked in the No Sail order, the cruise lines will be much better equipped to handle COVID-19 onboard. The biggest reason pregnant women who have entered their 24th week of pregnancy are banned from sailing is because cruise ships are not equipped to safely care for a child who is born prematurely. If ships are actually equipped to deal with COVID-19, there is no need for a ban. I'm certainly not advocating that people 70+ should be sailing any time soon. I'm just trying to point out that the cruise lines are certainly going to try to not ban that demographic simply because it would cause a massive loss in sales.

 

[Kp128]

I don't think there will be an outright ban on people of a certain age. In early March, CLIA, the cruise industry trade group, proposed to US authorities that member cruise lines would deny boarding to any person over the age of 70 unless they present a note from a doctor stating that they are fit to travel on board a cruise ship. Those restrictions were rescinded in early April. There was tremendous push-back from guests, particularly of the cruise lines that attract an older demographic (HAL, Princess, etc.). Those lines will have difficulty selling staterooms if there is an outright ban on older guests. Is a ban even legal? I, personally, have no clue. I think CLIA is going to come up with a way to navigate around an outright ban by implementing health forms, waivers, etc. Also, if they can come up with a proposal that the CDC signs off on according to what is being asked in the No Sail order, the cruise lines will be much better equipped to handle COVID-19 onboard. The biggest reason pregnant women who have entered their 24th week of pregnancy are banned from sailing is because cruise ships are not equipped to safely care for a child who is born prematurely. If ships are actually equipped to deal with COVID-19, there is no need for a ban. I'm certainly not advocating that people 70+ should be sailing any time soon. I'm just trying to point out that the cruise lines are certainly going to try to not ban that demographic simply because it would cause a massive loss in sales.

There’s a lot of people under the age of 70 with severe underlying conditions such as diabetes cancer,hypertension, obesity ..,,the list goes on.and on. Should they be excluded or need a medical note too.?

 

[Karin1984]

African American have a disproportionately higher rate of death from Covid. Should we ban that group too. I think it's a slippery slope.

I thought that difference was caused due to inequality to get access to proper health care, not because of a difference how certain genes react to the virus, like it does for sickle-cell or Tay Sachs disease.
It is probably too early, and we don't know enough yet to see these kind of differences in genetics.

If someone can pay Disney prices, i think chances are higher these people have health insurance and access to health care, regardless of race.

 

[braysmommy]

There’s a lot of people under the age of 70 with severe underlying conditions such as diabetes cancer,hypertension, obesity ..,,the list goes on.and on. Should they be excluded or need a medical note too.?

Totally agree! My mom is in her 70's and always sails with us. She has no other underlying medical conditions and I would say healthier than many younger cruisers we see on the ship.