Coronavirus and DCL Megathread - Suspension of Departures for the fleet until early November. Booking only available from early December.

[_auroraborealis_]

One of the reasons for the pregnancy restriction is the inability to provide a standard of care for premature birth.

It is highly debatable if a cruise ship can provide a standard of care for a highly contagious disease that attacks the lungs.

 

[T & R]

African American have a disproportionately higher rate of death from Covid. Should we ban that group too.

Federal Law and Florida State Law prohibit a business from discriminating based on race or national origin. That slippery slope has already been addressed for over half a century now since 1964.

 

[DisneyWishes14]

There’s a lot of people under the age of 70 with severe underlying conditions such as diabetes cancer,hypertension, obesity ..,,the list goes on.and on. Should they be excluded or need a medical note too.?

Those with chronic, underlying medical conditions were also included in CLIA's original proposal to US authorities. As I mentioned in my last post, those restrictions were rescinded in early April and CLIA is currently working to come up with a new proposal to satisfy the CDC No Sail order. These are just facts. Should they be excluded or need a medical note? I don't really have an answer to that. I'm not a lawyer, a CLIA representative nor a CDC rep. Those are the people who will ultimately answer that question and if those in that demographic are banned, I'm sure the courts will give their opinion on the subject as well.

 

[Kp128]

Those with chronic, underlying medical conditions were also included in CLIA's original proposal to US authorities. As I mentioned in my last post, those restrictions were rescinded in early April and CLIA is currently working to come up with a new proposal to satisfy the CDC No Sail order. These are just facts. Should they be excluded or need a medical note? I don't really have an answer to that. I'm not a lawyer, a CLIA representative nor a CDC rep. Those are the people who will ultimately answer that question and if those in that demographic are banned, I'm sure the courts will give their opinion on the subject as well.

None of these apply to me, but banning people with underlying health conditions would eliminate a big portion of the population. It wouldn’t be enforceable anyway. I don’t think people can be forced to disclose their medical information.

I’m guessing people over the age of 70 make up a large portion of cruiselines clientele.
I have family members that cruise a lot and they’are in their 80’s.

 

[AquaDame]

HIPPA lawyers would have a field day if citizens were forced to disclose medical conditions for boarding... age is not a secret - it is present on our ID.

 

[goofystitch]

We rescheduled our cruise from March to right after Thanksgiving and we are so looking forward to it - at our own risk. There are no guarantees in life - no one knows when their number is up - so we just hope and pray for the best.

 

[harriet2]

Carnival announced they'll restart their cruises on August 1st

 

[DisneyWishes14]

None of these apply to me, but banning people with underlying health conditions would eliminate a big portion of the population. It wouldn’t be enforceable anyway. I don’t think people can be forced to disclose their medical information.

I’m guessing people over the age of 70 make up a large portion of cruiselines clientele.
I have family members that cruise a lot and they’are in their 80’s.

Yes, guests 70 and over make up about 15% of all cruise guests. I speculate, if you look at lines like HAL and Princess, that percentage would go up substantially.

We all sign health forms attesting to certain things prior to embarking on cruise ships. This was DCL's form as of January - https://disneycruiselineblog.com/20...rkation-health-questionnaire-for-coronovirus/. Women must also attest that they are not in nor will they enter into their 24th week of pregnancy while cruising. This is DCL's official statement:

"Women who have entered their 24th week of pregnancy as of their embarkation date or who will enter their 24th week of pregnancy during the cruise will be refused passage due to safety concerns.

Neither a doctor’s medical statement nor a waiver of liability will be accepted. In addition, Disney Cruise Line cannot be held responsible or liable for any complications relating to pregnancy at any stage."

This ban has been in place for years. I am not an attorney, so I, personally, do not know what the difference would be between asking someone about one medical condition (pregnancy) and another (diabetes, a heart condition, etc.). I'm sure CLIA's attorneys are furiously trying to figure out what they legally can and cannot ask on a health form for embarkation in the US.

 

[T & R]

trying to figure out what they legally can and cannot ask on a health form for embarkation in the US.

DCL can ask any question they want regarding your health in regards to boarding their vessel. They are not a covered entity under HIPPA law. Even if they were a covered entity it would only be a HIPPA violation if they shared your medical info with others. You don't have to answer their health questions but they don't have to let you onboard either.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Carnival announced a plan. It is totally subject to change.

Right now, based on preliminary steps required, I think anyone hoping for June is going to be disappointed.

(I also think the DVC member cruise in August is a goner, and that is going to be another hot mess for DVC to deal with, but that is a separate tangent. I don't think Vancouver allow the Wonder to dock this year.)

 

[Karin1984]

FYI for those with an interest on the science of the medication and vaccins in development.

With a little bit of luck, Dutch scientists have found an existing antibody that can be used for medicines against Covid-19. It attacks the virus in a way that it cannot enter human cells anymore.

The published article after the peer-to-peer study:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-16256-y

 

[monkeydawn]

African American have a disproportionately higher rate of death from Covid. Should we ban that group too. I think it's a slippery slope.

And while we are at it, we might as well set up a blood pressure monitor after the thermal scans. LOL

I thought that difference was caused due to inequality to get access to proper health care, not because of a difference how certain genes react to the virus, like it does for sickle-cell or Tay Sachs disease.
It is probably too early, and we don't know enough yet to see these kind of differences in genetics.

My understanding is that certain ethnicities are prone to some of the underlying co morbidities like obesity and high blood pressure and that is why we are seeing a disparity in those ethnic groups. These co morbidities can likely, more accurately be linked to income rather than ethnicity. And one of the issues with low/ inconsistent income families is access to healthcare but the lack of access to healthcare isnt really the cause, if that makes sense.

 

[FigmentSpark]

And while we are at it, we might as well set up a blood pressure monitor after the thermal scans. LOL

All fine, no problem, you want my temperature? My blood pressure, maybe even a sampling of my blood for testing? Good, good... just don't EVER ask me to step on a scale in the terminal!

 

[Pickle Rick]

Carnival announced they'll restart their cruises on August 1st

Some of them at least.

 

[DisneyWishes14]

DCL can ask any question they want regarding your health in regards to boarding their vessel. They are not a covered entity under HIPPA law. Even if they were a covered entity it would only be a HIPPA violation if they shared your medical info with others. You don't have to answer their health questions but they don't have to let you onboard either.

Very interesting. It will be very interesting to see what the health questionnaires look like once cruising starts again. Thanks for the info!

 

[Kp128]

DCL can ask any question they want regarding your health in regards to boarding their vessel. They are not a covered entity under HIPPA law. Even if they were a covered entity it would only be a HIPPA violation if they shared your medical info with others. You don't have to answer their health questions but they don't have to let you onboard either.

DCL can ask you any questions they want, but you also don't have to answer the questions honestly. Unless they get your medical records from your physician they are never going to know if the answers you give them are accurate.

Most morbidly obese people have some kind of underlying condition. Are they going to fat shame people and deny them boarding too? It's all pretty ridiculous in my opinion. Have guests sign a waiver and let them make their own decisions regarding the risk they want to take.

 

[Garyjames220]

DCL can ask you any questions they want, but you also don't have to answer the questions honestly. Unless they get your medical records from your physician they are never going to know if the answers you give them are accurate.

Most morbidly obese people have some kind of underlying condition. Are they going to fat shame people and deny them boarding too? It's all pretty ridiculous in my opinion. Have guests sign a waiver and let them make their own decisions regarding the risk they want to take.

it may be all well guests signing waivers etc but if disney don’t get it right and People end up with Covid on cruises it will just all come to a stand still again

 

[Mainsail Minnie]

it may be all well guests signing waivers etc but if disney don’t get it right and People end up with Covid on cruises it will just all come to a stand still again

Some people are going to get COVID on the cruises, because it's really going around. Just like some people are going to get flu or noro, no matter how clean they keep the ship. Just like some people are going to get COVID at their local grocery store. It's out there and it's contagious. But if the people who get it are asymptomatic, it won't necessarily be a direct problem for the cruise line.

The scenario the cruise ships want to avoid is where they become floating hospitals/morgues, which is why I suspect the CDC will put upper age limits on cruising for a while, as the elderly are the highest-risk population. Lines might also reduce or eliminate their longest cruises (Disney offers very few long cruises), to minimize the number of people who have the chance to go from apparently healthy at embarkation, to critically ill while still on board. So there might not be any 2-week cruises for a while.

 

[Mainsail Minnie]

DCL can ask you any questions they want, but you also don't have to answer the questions honestly. Unless they get your medical records from your physician they are never going to know if the answers you give them are accurate.

Most morbidly obese people have some kind of underlying condition. Are they going to fat shame people and deny them boarding too? It's all pretty ridiculous in my opinion. Have guests sign a waiver and let them make their own decisions regarding the risk they want to take.

This is why I think they (either individual cruise lines or the CDC on behalf of cruise lines as a whole) will stick to advanced age (probably 70+ or 75+) as the one limitation. It requires no extra understanding or work on the part of the passenger or cruise line, and passengers can't lie about their age when boarding (without committing the crime of fraudulently tampering with a passport or birth certificate). Advanced age is also the highest risk factor for serious COVID complications.

Waivers do not necessarily offer full legal protection. It's very dependent upon the circumstances in which they're signed. For example, if someone booked an August 2020 cruise in December 2019 (before COVID was on the general public's radar), and booked it in a concierge cabin, which has a nonrefundable deposit, then if Disney decides to sail that cruise in August without offering full refunds to those concerned about COVID, that could be construed as the customer being economically pressured to sail. And DCL making that customer sign a waiver upon boarding doesn't relieve that pressure (in a way, it makes it more blatant as it shows that DCL knows the risk). Courts do take notice of those factors when rendering judgments. It's not so simple as, "Well you signed a piece of paper, so they have no liability." I'm not saying the customer in that scenario would automatically win, but they would have a viable case. Under certain circumstances (such as duress or lack of informed consent), a waiver isn't worth the paper it's written on.

 

[Trvlnomad]

The last cruise we took included “have you traveled through China in the last 14 days” a few weeks later confirmed covid cases of passengers and crew. Will the launch of cruises include ”have you traveled in the United States in the last 14 days”.