Cruise and Theme Park Operational Updates due to Coronavirus
- Thread starter rteetz
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sullivan.kscott
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2010
Exactly. To add, it has been posited here that each new addition/bring back brings a “new” 25%. So, if the theaters in HS, for example, reopened, that would be 25% of each dormant theater added to the “bucket.” If true, I can absolutely understand keeping them shuttered with the current crush of people milling about and the line for SDD and MMRR alone.
I just hope to God they come back sooner than we all expect.
Mit88
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- May 18, 2019
Wow, my spider senses told me to get on the boards this evening to read some depressing stuff.
Back in simpler times depressing Disney news came on fridays. Now they’re raining on cavalcades 5-6 days a week.
sullivan.kscott
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2010
I tend to agree, as devastating as tonight is. Those theaters won’t be left to rot.
IMO, as soon as WDW moves to 40% capacity (whenever that is), we’ll see things like Castle shows, legit parades, and some form of streetscape.
Let’s not forget they perform in and around storefronts. Stop and watch, and have an itch for ears.
I picked 40% because I think that will mean limited social distancing (maybe 1m instead of 2) and a real improvement in travel feasibility.
Mit88
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- May 18, 2019
A very good portion of their ad campaigns, especially around anniversary years is them pitching the entertainment to potential guests. Either their commercials are going to be very boring when we approach 50th anniversary commercials, or they’re going to feed some false advertisement. Unless of course they bring some equity back to fill the need when the time comes. While it sucks, really really sucks that these people are out of work, the most magical place on earth isn’t going to turn into Defunctland for the rest of its existence
SaintsManiac
Wait for it.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2014
Such a sad evening in the fandom. I sure hope the affected cast members are going to be ok. I’ve been laid off two times and it really sucks.
I feel grateful to have had so many trips before this horrible year.
I feel grateful to have had so many trips before this horrible year.
andyman8
DIS Veteran and WDW Passholder
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2011
A few thoughts but let me first preface by saying that some of you aren't going to like this so you can quote this post, call me names, say I'm not rooted in reality, whatever you want, but I'm really not interested in arguing or responding. That energy is needed elsewhere at the moment. These are my opinions. You're entitled to disagree.
What is happening here is a choice. The investors aren't holding the executives at TWDC hostage. Yes, revenue is down in unprecedented ways but how that materializes is a choice. I mean if they really wanted to, TWDC could pay every employee 75% of their pay and still be around after the pandemic. The Walt Disney Company has access to credit lines that some of the wealthiest individuals in the world only dream of. If the Company's survival was dependent on entertainment cuts like these, that would be the result of years of financial mismanagement and would indicate much larger problems for the Company. Now, if they paid every employee, would they see even deeper losses? Of course they would, but that's not to say they couldn't do it. I'll remind everyone that, per the precedent set in Burwell v. Hobby Lobby, corporations are not obligated to max out profits. Public for-profit enterprises must be transparent and make the necessary disclosures, but if a shareholder doesn't feel like they're receiving adequate ROI, then they have to sell their share.
Am I saying they should partially pay every one of their employees until each one comes back? Not necessarily (though it would be a shocking deviation from the norm so who knows what would happen?). But it's about priorities. Certainly they could've a saved a nice chunk of change by keeping their VPs, SVPs, Presidents, and executives on reduced pay (paycuts that, I remind everyone, continue at most other major media companies), but again, it's about priorities. They decided that that those were priorities. They could've decided that live entertainment was enough of a priority in distinguishing them from their competition that many needed to be kept on. It all depends on where you personally draw the line between reasonable and unreasonable.
It's not like they can't keep them on. They just know that they can get a way with it at WDW where the "Cast Members are the entertainment." Look at Shanghai. Only weeks after SDL's reopening, we saw them bring back virtually all of their live entertainment at once. The Frozen Sing-A-Long, the PotC stunt show, various performing acts in the park all came back quickly, well before they were even admitting enough Guests to be dealing with the queue management issues we are seeing at WDW. Why was that? One could cite the ownership agreement between Disney and the Chinese, but that agreement leaves these decisions basically up to Disney, so they clearly felt like there was some reason they needed to prioritize the entertainment so early on. Perhaps the virus situation is different there? I'm not so sure. Disney seems comfortable doing the low-cost, high-profit IP Frozen (all indoor) show here. You don't have to look much further than SDL's own website to understand why the strategies are so different. When you visit the FAQ on Shanghai Disney Resort's website, the very first question is not "Where are the parks hours?" or "How much does a ticket cost?". It's "What makes Disney theme parks so special?" What a peculiar question to include upfront, but it is a reminder of just how deeply engrained Disney is in our cultural zeitgeist. Whether you love Disney or hate it, whether you've been to WDW or not, you know what it is, you the know the characters, you know what it represents. Why a premium is attached to that brand, what makes it "special" are widely understood concepts amongst Americans and in many other countries (even if some don't like or get it). Most people understand the difference between a vacation to Disney World and a day at your local Six Flags. But when you look at a place like China, whose people have not had that familiarity with American pop cultural and media for a slew of geopolitical reasons, there's no preconceived understanding of the Disney brand as a premium brand and what is represents. There's nothing inherent in the word "Disney" that distinguishes a Disney Park from any other amusement park/leisure activity. To demonstrate "Disney show," they still have to prove it there. TWDC knows that, here, they don't have to.
Will some of these shows/offerings come back to WDW at some point? It's likely but don't expect it for a long time and don't expect them to be showing 8, 9, 10 times a day like they used to. The casts will likely be paired down and Disney may look to hire newer, younger (and cheaper) performers with less experience. Many other entertainment offerings just will not return, and that isn't as a reversal of what WDW is about but rather an escalation of what TWDC executives want WDW to be about. It's a "mature" resort. It's not about people, it's about popular characters. It's not about live shows, it's about themed attractions. And look, I get it. I love what they're doing to Epcot and think the additions to DHS and DAK are wonderful. It's not that I don't like IP in the parks but, like everything in life, it's a balance. You don't want too much of one thing and not enough (or in this case, very little) of the other. But these are the changes they've been wanting to make for a considerable amount of time and now they have an excuse to do it quickly and swiftly.
Yes, these are unprecedented times. I've looked into it and I cannot find any proportionally larger layoffs than these in the entire history of TWDC, even during WWII. But every deviation from normal business has been unprecedented in a way. When 9/11 happened, it was unprecedented too. Neither Disney nor the entire tourism industry had ever seen or expected an event where one day it was business as usual and then literally the next day people were scared to come to your resort. In 2008/2009, there were legitimate questions for a brief period over if we would actually have a banking system. That was unprecedented in the history of TWDC. In each case, major business like TWDC generally adapt and survive. But in each of those events, its often people like these same CMs (who usually can afford it least) who get the short end of the stick. People like most of these entertainers could theoretically be brought back to work in some capacity but because they're not deemed corporate priorities, they're out of a job. That's a conscious choice on Disney's part. We now have at least one whole generation of kids who has seen this happen at least twice within 15 years, and what do we tell them? It is what it is? And then people wonder why you have so many young people disillusioned with or radicalized by the system.
All in all, tonight is about where Disney sets priorities. I can assure you the Company would've been just fine had they not laid off these performers or even better brought some of them back to alleviate crowd congestion. Believe it or not, it's quite possible that those executive pay restoration would've cost them more than bringing some of these folks back. But that's not where the priorities are right now. And that's a deliberate choice. No loss in revenue or economic downturn or unprecedented event "forced" them to set those priorities that way. They've always held themselves to higher standards (and they certainly charge a premium for it). They tell all their new hires "We're all Cast Members," but their priorities don't seem to back that up. And to add another layer of confusion to an already rambling post: one can be put off bt their decisions and still love the parks, the people who work in them, and give them business. The two are not mutually exclusive.
What is happening here is a choice. The investors aren't holding the executives at TWDC hostage. Yes, revenue is down in unprecedented ways but how that materializes is a choice. I mean if they really wanted to, TWDC could pay every employee 75% of their pay and still be around after the pandemic. The Walt Disney Company has access to credit lines that some of the wealthiest individuals in the world only dream of. If the Company's survival was dependent on entertainment cuts like these, that would be the result of years of financial mismanagement and would indicate much larger problems for the Company. Now, if they paid every employee, would they see even deeper losses? Of course they would, but that's not to say they couldn't do it. I'll remind everyone that, per the precedent set in Burwell v. Hobby Lobby, corporations are not obligated to max out profits. Public for-profit enterprises must be transparent and make the necessary disclosures, but if a shareholder doesn't feel like they're receiving adequate ROI, then they have to sell their share.
Am I saying they should partially pay every one of their employees until each one comes back? Not necessarily (though it would be a shocking deviation from the norm so who knows what would happen?). But it's about priorities. Certainly they could've a saved a nice chunk of change by keeping their VPs, SVPs, Presidents, and executives on reduced pay (paycuts that, I remind everyone, continue at most other major media companies), but again, it's about priorities. They decided that that those were priorities. They could've decided that live entertainment was enough of a priority in distinguishing them from their competition that many needed to be kept on. It all depends on where you personally draw the line between reasonable and unreasonable.
It's not like they can't keep them on. They just know that they can get a way with it at WDW where the "Cast Members are the entertainment." Look at Shanghai. Only weeks after SDL's reopening, we saw them bring back virtually all of their live entertainment at once. The Frozen Sing-A-Long, the PotC stunt show, various performing acts in the park all came back quickly, well before they were even admitting enough Guests to be dealing with the queue management issues we are seeing at WDW. Why was that? One could cite the ownership agreement between Disney and the Chinese, but that agreement leaves these decisions basically up to Disney, so they clearly felt like there was some reason they needed to prioritize the entertainment so early on. Perhaps the virus situation is different there? I'm not so sure. Disney seems comfortable doing the low-cost, high-profit IP Frozen (all indoor) show here. You don't have to look much further than SDL's own website to understand why the strategies are so different. When you visit the FAQ on Shanghai Disney Resort's website, the very first question is not "Where are the parks hours?" or "How much does a ticket cost?". It's "What makes Disney theme parks so special?" What a peculiar question to include upfront, but it is a reminder of just how deeply engrained Disney is in our cultural zeitgeist. Whether you love Disney or hate it, whether you've been to WDW or not, you know what it is, you the know the characters, you know what it represents. Why a premium is attached to that brand, what makes it "special" are widely understood concepts amongst Americans and in many other countries (even if some don't like or get it). Most people understand the difference between a vacation to Disney World and a day at your local Six Flags. But when you look at a place like China, whose people have not had that familiarity with American pop cultural and media for a slew of geopolitical reasons, there's no preconceived understanding of the Disney brand as a premium brand and what is represents. There's nothing inherent in the word "Disney" that distinguishes a Disney Park from any other amusement park/leisure activity. To demonstrate "Disney show," they still have to prove it there. TWDC knows that, here, they don't have to.
Will some of these shows/offerings come back to WDW at some point? It's likely but don't expect it for a long time and don't expect them to be showing 8, 9, 10 times a day like they used to. The casts will likely be paired down and Disney may look to hire newer, younger (and cheaper) performers with less experience. Many other entertainment offerings just will not return, and that isn't as a reversal of what WDW is about but rather an escalation of what TWDC executives want WDW to be about. It's a "mature" resort. It's not about people, it's about popular characters. It's not about live shows, it's about themed attractions. And look, I get it. I love what they're doing to Epcot and think the additions to DHS and DAK are wonderful. It's not that I don't like IP in the parks but, like everything in life, it's a balance. You don't want too much of one thing and not enough (or in this case, very little) of the other. But these are the changes they've been wanting to make for a considerable amount of time and now they have an excuse to do it quickly and swiftly.
Yes, these are unprecedented times. I've looked into it and I cannot find any proportionally larger layoffs than these in the entire history of TWDC, even during WWII. But every deviation from normal business has been unprecedented in a way. When 9/11 happened, it was unprecedented too. Neither Disney nor the entire tourism industry had ever seen or expected an event where one day it was business as usual and then literally the next day people were scared to come to your resort. In 2008/2009, there were legitimate questions for a brief period over if we would actually have a banking system. That was unprecedented in the history of TWDC. In each case, major business like TWDC generally adapt and survive. But in each of those events, its often people like these same CMs (who usually can afford it least) who get the short end of the stick. People like most of these entertainers could theoretically be brought back to work in some capacity but because they're not deemed corporate priorities, they're out of a job. That's a conscious choice on Disney's part. We now have at least one whole generation of kids who has seen this happen at least twice within 15 years, and what do we tell them? It is what it is? And then people wonder why you have so many young people disillusioned with or radicalized by the system.
All in all, tonight is about where Disney sets priorities. I can assure you the Company would've been just fine had they not laid off these performers or even better brought some of them back to alleviate crowd congestion. Believe it or not, it's quite possible that those executive pay restoration would've cost them more than bringing some of these folks back. But that's not where the priorities are right now. And that's a deliberate choice. No loss in revenue or economic downturn or unprecedented event "forced" them to set those priorities that way. They've always held themselves to higher standards (and they certainly charge a premium for it). They tell all their new hires "We're all Cast Members," but their priorities don't seem to back that up. And to add another layer of confusion to an already rambling post: one can be put off bt their decisions and still love the parks, the people who work in them, and give them business. The two are not mutually exclusive.
MrsBooch
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2019
The only thing I can say is that they are free to make these choices as they see fit with respect to their priorities- but ultimately they answer to shareholders.
Slashes like this will trickle down - earnings reports are one thing, this type of corporate decisioning often leads to a certain level of PR spin that has shifted the shareholder's priorities - executives have been asked to step down before when decisions shift corporate focus and damage brand image. They're going to use other umbrellas to cover this - COVID 19, California, Tourism, Other Countries Borders are Closed, but I think it will end up being very transparent.
I wouldn't be surprised to see that happen here - maybe after 2021.
Slashes like this will trickle down - earnings reports are one thing, this type of corporate decisioning often leads to a certain level of PR spin that has shifted the shareholder's priorities - executives have been asked to step down before when decisions shift corporate focus and damage brand image. They're going to use other umbrellas to cover this - COVID 19, California, Tourism, Other Countries Borders are Closed, but I think it will end up being very transparent.
I wouldn't be surprised to see that happen here - maybe after 2021.
csmith1004
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2011
Let’s face it, Disney commercials have always been false advertising - kids skipping down Main Street hand in hand with Mickey just doesn’t happen.
gottalovepluto
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2014
They’ll try to move on but work for actors isn’t exactly plentiful- especially right now. If Disney ever puts a call to go back I suspect a decent amount would abandon whatever their in between acting gigs job is and return in a heartbeat. These folks are in for a very rough time I suspect
LSUmiss
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2014
I hate to admit that I think that’s true. I keep tolerating more & more diminishing things b/c I don’t want to admit it’s nit what it once was.
I’m just sad that the Disney I grew up
At and the Disney I have spent the last 12 years going to regularly is gone for who knows how long. My kids in the prime window for the magical Disney and they love it but don’t even want to go now. And then Im mad at the thousands spent on DVC and won’t be able to use points anytime soon.
Other places are doing shows and others are starting to bring them back, seems like many places are trying to rebuild what they can while
Disney strips more away.
At and the Disney I have spent the last 12 years going to regularly is gone for who knows how long. My kids in the prime window for the magical Disney and they love it but don’t even want to go now. And then Im mad at the thousands spent on DVC and won’t be able to use points anytime soon.
Other places are doing shows and others are starting to bring them back, seems like many places are trying to rebuild what they can while
Disney strips more away.
Elle23
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2016
Nooooooooo!!!
gottalovepluto
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2014
I feel like this is the end of an era of WDW entertainment. Bummed I never made it Beauty and the Beast, hoping they keep the stunt show (but for love of all things Disney-update it!!). I’m afraid the rest of it I didn’t really love tbh but the atmosphere and options of stuff to do iI will miss.
And I’m wondering if this means Fantasmic is the dead nighttime spectacular? That had to have had Equity Actors, no?
And I’m wondering if this means Fantasmic is the dead nighttime spectacular? That had to have had Equity Actors, no?
gottalovepluto
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2014
DVC has decent resale value doesn’t it? So if you’re done for the next few years at least there is a viable option to get out.
MickeyWaffles
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2010
Let’s face it, Disney commercials have always been false advertising - kids skipping down Main Street hand in hand with Mickey just doesn’t happen.
Well, at Disneyland it did actually happen pretty often. Often when Mickey exited the trolley in DCA, he would hold the hand of a child and walk down the street. And if you were the first child outside Toontown (which opened about an hour after park opening), you were able to walk hand in hand with him to lead everyone into the land. These kinds of interactions actually did happen there pretty regularly.
it has but who knows what will happen to it also. I don’t see it being in high demand either.
DisneyPigFan
Mouseketeer
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2012
I do not see a scenario in which social distancing guidelines change from 2M to 1M (6 feet to 3 feet). Either the virus is a danger or not, and while it is, 6 feet is what the CDC guidelines are. It's not suddenly going to spread half as far.
Eventually, it'll be safe enough for there to be no physical distancing needed. But until then, 6 feet it will remain.
Side note -- many Asian countries (and maybe some European ones?) actually DO use 1M as their standard.....so go figure. But since the U.S. has established theirs, I don't know what would drive them to change it...
Mit88
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- May 18, 2019
Let’s face it, Disney commercials have always been false advertising - kids skipping down Main Street hand in hand with Mickey just doesn’t happen.
Last summer for Galaxy’s Edge promotions they showed the area in front of the Falcon and there was only one child in the shot and I laughed as if there was no way that area would ever not be filled to the gills with people. Then I went in august and I was the only person standing in the area by the Falcon
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