disabilities assistance Abuse

[Groot]

I also get frustrated by the fact that not all disabilities are very noticeable. Each time I had to get a DAS pass I always wish I could provide proof. I always felt like I was being looked at suspiciously. It bothers me so much I attempted not to get one for my son (ASD) during my last trip. And then as expected he became a nightmare in line for everyone. He stims and runs into people constantly, prone to complete breakdowns due to noise and even small things like bumping his elbow. So our day at AK was ruined. The next day I got one and our trip ended up going much more smoothly and everyone had fun.

The people that abuse this system obviously effect the ones who need it, they are horrible entitled human beings.

Same goes for someone like me who doesn’t fit into the “Classic Look” of their disability too.

 

[SirDuff]

What have FP got to do with DAS? I know, absolutely nothing. It sounds like a bunch of wasteful, frivolous lawsuits against some deep pockets. And can you link that article?

I think that they were talking about Six Flags asking for documentation for their pass.

 

[JenGo2020]

Years ago Disney would really go out of they way to help those with disabilities to have a Disney experience. That’s really not the case anyone. Why? My theory is there are so many people abusing the system.

You need look no further that the “handicap” parking lot. It’s quite common to see families park in a handicap spot, hop out and jog up to the gate. Obviously using someone else’s placard.

Folks slap a “Emotional Support Animal” vest on the family pet and poof: Service animal!

Probably the worst is when people get a scooter or wheelchair just to get some type of advantage. Our last we actually came across a family that was arguing on who turn it was to ride in the wheelchair.

Our son has cerebral palsy and is in a wheelchair full time and the slight advantages that Disney used to provide helped a bit but there are so many things we can’t do.

We’ve spoken to cast members on this issue and they basically told us they are not allowed to question guests and the fact that so many guests are abusing the system they cut back on the assistance. Somewhere along the lines the term “handicap” got lost.

Of course there are people with disabilities that may not be obvious to the untrained eye. My issue is with People that abuse the system. They should be ashamed, its embarrassing.

Years ago Disney would really go out of they way to help those with disabilities to have a Disney experience. That’s really not the case anyone. Why? My theory is there are so many people abusing the system.

You need look no further that the “handicap” parking lot. It’s quite common to see families park in a handicap spot, hop out and jog up to the gate. Obviously using someone else’s placard.

Folks slap a “Emotional Support Animal” vest on the family pet and poof: Service animal!

Probably the worst is when people get a scooter or wheelchair just to get some type of advantage. Our last we actually came across a family that was arguing on who turn it was to ride in the wheelchair.

Our son has cerebral palsy and is in a wheelchair full time and the slight advantages that Disney used to provide helped a bit but there are so many things we can’t do.

We’ve spoken to cast members on this issue and they basically told us they are not allowed to question guests and the fact that so many guests are abusing the system they cut back on the assistance. Somewhere along the lines the term “handicap” got lost.

Of course there are people with disabilities that may not be obvious to the untrained eye. My issue is with People that abuse the system. They should be ashamed, its embarrassing.

A different point of view. My husband is a 100% disabled veteran. To the "normal" eye you would never, ever know he has any issues. He has a disabled veterans handicap license plates - he gets the stink eye at times by people thinking he is cheating the system. Until you have been in a situation where you are with these 100% disabled veterans on a daily basis you no NOTHING of what you speak! I would give ANYTHING to have my husband whole again (again, you would see him and think there is nothing wrong - he looks fit, he looks strong, he looks whole). As for Disney, we were there over New Years a few months ago and yes, we had access to rides = 5 of us total. Sorry, not going to have dad go by himself while the rest of us wait in line. Do I feel bad? No, I don't. Please don't judge.

 

[MS_Warrior]

What have FP got to do with DAS? I know, absolutely nothing. It sounds like a bunch of wasteful, frivolous lawsuits against some deep pockets. And can you link that article?

DAS has nothing to do with Fast Pass except that after a person gets a return time, waits until the time has elapsed and returns to the ride, they are taken in on the FP line. I wasn’t talking about FP. I was talking about the way Six Flags is doing their disability passes - requiring a doctor’s note. I will see if I can find the article. I read it in passing, but if I find it, I will post here.

 

[Lilsia]

DAS has nothing to do with Fast Pass except that after a person gets a return time, waits until the time has elapsed and returns to the ride, they are taken in on the FP line. I wasn’t talking about FP. I was talking about the way Six Flags is doing their disability passes - requiring a doctor’s note. I will see if I can find the article. I read it in passing, but if I find it, I will post here.

Ok, I thought you were talking about WDW.

 

[Evita_W]

According to the Six Flags website, they are fully compliant with ADA and HIPAA. As lanejudy noted above, it may be because the accommodations provided have a price attached for non-disabled guests.

They are definitely incorrect about that, there has to be accomodations that don't have a price attached or a doctor's note required.....bit that I would go to Six Flags anyway.

 

[WonderlandisReality]

There have always been those who complain that someone doesn’t look disabled enough. I remember it happening to my Mom when I was 3 and she was getting me and my currently attached IV apparatus out of the backseat of our car. It’s not new and most of us run into it from time to time.
I can truly say that I have never seen anyone abuse a parking space to my knowledge. I am not naive enough to think that it never happens but it is either so exceedingly rare that in my nearly 40 years I haven’t seen it or I am a hermit who never goes anywhere. I will say going off the criteria for a handicap placard in our state 8/9 of my family meet the narrow qualifications. And more often than not we DON’T use it. Walking 150 into your local chain restaurant to be seated is a whole different experience than walking half a mile just to the turnstiles of a Disney Park.
As far as DAS, it literally pains me to read some of the “do you think I qualify” when posters clearly qualify. Most people question themselves way more about accommodations such as these than they ought to. And I have been guilty of trying to do rides without a DAS or similar accommodation until my child with microcephaly, severe fetal alcohol syndrome-affected, with severe trauma from her abusive orphanage literally melts down and starts self injurious behavior. But I have also been told by random entitled people that the same child doesn’t look disabled (even with the microcephalic head, go figure).
Disney has always been wonderful for our family to work with. From bathroom custodians offering encouragement while I sit on the floor and rock my 8 year old to housekeeping staff who go to a different resort to find us a bath seat for the shower to park CM who gives us additional replacement wheelchair/stroller tags for when one gets ruined in the rain to ride attendants who have never been impatient when we take a little extra time to get on and off. Never a bad interaction.

 

[mamabunny]

I kind of want to shift the narrative for a moment...

The last year or so, I have been with my personal medical team on a (far too regular) basis. They all know I'm a "Disney person", and once they heard we had to cancel our Jan 2021 trip because of my emergency surgery, every.single.one of my doctors offered me a "note" for my next trip.

Every. Single. One.

Now, I took a moment to educate each of them about DAS, and how it works, and why I didn't personally need it (because my needs are primarily mobility-based, and are served by my personal mobility devices).

But they were all shocked, and more than one of them told me that they still have people regularly ask for those "doctors notes" for WDW and/or DL.

As you work with your medical team, please check with them, and let them know that for Disney, their notes will not be used in the decision-making process by CMs when it comes to the DAS. Helping to educate doctors and nurses can - in the long run - help rein in a certain amount of fraud as well.

 

[OurBigTrip]

They are definitely incorrect about that, there has to be accomodations that don't have a price attached or a doctor's note required.....bit that I would go to Six Flags anyway.

Well they’ve been doing it for years, so I’m guessing the lawsuits will be rolling in anytime.

 

[MS_Warrior]

Well they’ve been doing it for years, so I’m guessing the lawsuits will be rolling in anytime.

Who knows if it will ever happen. Any changes Disney makes will most likely be met with lawsuits, though. Just as the DAS change was met lawsuits.

Personally, I think the DAS is one of the most fair accommodations because it just allows alternate waiting areas rather than the lines.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Who knows if it will ever happen. Any changes Disney makes will most likely be met with lawsuits, though. Just as the DAS change was met lawsuits.

Personally, I think the DAS is one of the most fair accommodations because it just allows alternate waiting areas rather than the lines.

I agree 100% - I think Disney always has a target on them due to the depth of their pockets

I’m not a fan of having to provide a note or proof - I think Disney does it well, although I think that a few CMs probably are a little more apt to give them just because the guests ask for one, rather than basing it on the actual need.

 

[MS_Warrior]

I agree 100% - I think Disney always has a target on them due to the depth of their pockets

I’m not a fan of having to provide a note or proof - I think Disney does it well, although I think that a few CMs probably are a little more apt to give them just because the guests ask for one, rather than basing it on the actual need.

Very possibly. I’ve never asked for one, so I don’t know what it’s like. So far my DS has been able to handle the lines, etc. He has Down Syndrome and I’ve had people in the parks push me to get one for him, but he’s got the patience of Job. As long as I have my ECV (now a wheelchair), I’m fine. I get tired easily, but I just go back to the room early.

 

[DisneyOma]

We are new-ish users of the DAS system. I think the issue now is that without FastPass, other riders are more aware of the system, and more upset by the seeming advantage (they likely don't understand that we wait just as long; just not in one place). Without DAS, we could no longer do Disney or any other amusement park, but my daughter looks "normal", so I'm sure people question our need.

One of our primary reasons to use DAS initially had to do with the newer Covid rules, and how they impacted our situation. We MIGHT be able to get by on most rides/lines with the old line rules, low crowd levels, and carefully crafted FastPasses...but maybe not. I think so many are frustrated because of the July overcrowding and waits.

Our most recent trip, my daughter had a life-threatening event caused by a failure of DAS to work the way it normally does/should - so it is necessary for us. She has also taken to wearing her medical devices proudly in plain view; I think maybe so that people can now "see" that she has a real reason to use "FastPass" line. Either way, I'm grateful.

Would you mind explaining the DAS failure? Was the wait too long? We're here now and some of the waits have been over 10 minutes, closer to 20. I think that's going to be more common as WDW still doesn't have enough open shops, shows and restaurants to take the increased crowds.

It's so funny last time we were there , the line for DAS was super long. So I had to wait while my son waited inside in the air and when it was our turn people behind me got upset that i had to cut back in because I had to leave for a second to go get him.

These cheaters have no idea what we go through everyday and if we could give up the disability we would happily stand in every line.

That's a tricky one - did you tell the people behind you (and in the area) what you needed to do?

I would welcome this idea 100%. I don't even mind bringing the actual medical records, not just a doc's note.

And what if those medical records meant nothing to the CM and you didn't get the pass? A medical record doesn't say anything about needs either, just condition.

A different point of view. My husband is a 100% disabled veteran. To the "normal" eye you would never, ever know he has any issues. He has a disabled veterans handicap license plates - he gets the stink eye at times by people thinking he is cheating the system. Until you have been in a situation where you are with these 100% disabled veterans on a daily basis you no NOTHING of what you speak! I would give ANYTHING to have my husband whole again (again, you would see him and think there is nothing wrong - he looks fit, he looks strong, he looks whole). As for Disney, we were there over New Years a few months ago and yes, we had access to rides = 5 of us total. Sorry, not going to have dad go by himself while the rest of us wait in line. Do I feel bad? No, I don't. Please don't judge.

Okay, I'm going to try to ask this without sounding like a jerk, and mods, feel free to delete if I don't get it right - but if your husband looks fit, strong, etc, then how is he 100% disabled? To me, 100% disabled means a nonverbal, mentally disabled, and physically disabled person, like my cousin's daughter who is an adult but cannot walk, talk, or take care of any of her own needs. She is not toilet trained, cannot sit upright without support, and has no language at all to communicate. Is the term 100% disabled veteran a military designation?

 

[OurBigTrip]

Is the term 100% disabled veteran a military designation?

Yes, it’s a rating that helps determine the amount of disability payments from the government.

I’m with you on the previous question about a DAS failure…in my mind, there is really no such thing, since it’s not a work or not work thing.

 

[MS_Warrior]

[QUOTE="DisneyOma, post: 63273694, member:

Okay, I'm going to try to ask this without sounding like a jerk, and mods, feel free to delete if I don't get it right - but if your husband looks fit, strong, etc, then how is he 100% disabled? To me, 100% disabled means a nonverbal, mentally disabled, and physically disabled person, like my cousin's daughter who is an adult but cannot walk, talk, or take care of any of her own needs. She is not toilet trained, cannot sit upright without support, and has no language at all to communicate. Is the term 100% disabled veteran a military designation?
[/QUOTE]

100% is Military designation. Depending on level of disability, the military signs a percentage.

However, your perception of what 100% means and someone else's may be quite different. Some associate 100% with whether a person can work or not. Others expect it to be totally dependent.

 

[Evita_W]

Well they’ve been doing it for years, so I’m guessing the lawsuits will be rolling in anytime.

No, because they don't have money and because they use a third party, so both point the finger at each other, so between both of those issues, it isn't worth suing. This is a prime example of why we need an ADA enforcement agency that has the authority to fine and shut down businesses if appropriate. Additionally, the fines from larger companies that can afford the fines and should be used to help the smaller businesses that can't afford it, to make the necessary changes. This whole you have to sue to get things changed needs to go.

 

[OurBigTrip]

No, because they don't have money and because they use a third party, so both point the finger at each other, so between both of those issues, it isn't worth suing. This is a prime example of why we need an ADA enforcement agency that has the authority to fine and shut down businesses if appropriate. Additionally, the fines from larger companies that can afford the fines and should be used to help the smaller businesses that can't afford it, to make the necessary changes. This whole you have to sue to get things changed needs to go.

Couldn’t disagree more, but to each their own.

 

[DisSurfer878]

You (and some other posters) are assuming there is a lot of fraud. I don’t think it’s near the level that some people think. There are still many people using the Fastpass Return lines besides DAS, including Rider Swap, guest recovery passes for a ride shutdown or some other problem, VIP Tour groups (sometimes the VIP tour guide gets their guests into the line, but the the guests go on the attraction and meet the tour guide afterwards.
My husband, youngest DD and I were at WDW in June. A couple of times, we noticed large numbers of people entering the Fastpass line; we found out later they were doing some kind of Fastpass testing.

Seeing someone running or walking fast from a handicapped parking spot doesn’t mean no one in the group is disabled or that they were borrowing someone‘s handicapped parking permit. It could be someone excited who has energy in the morning. Or maybe, the disabled person is a child with autism who is perfectly capable of walking and running.
Seeing one person using a wheelchair/ECV and later another person using it doesn’t mean they are ‘cheating’. People who don’t need one all the time frequently either share it or walk for a while while someone else uses it. When my kids were little, we sometimes carried the younger one and her sister rode her wheelchair. Same thing happened with a friend’s 2 kids; both could walk and even run. The wheelchair was for her oldest son who had an inoperable heart condition and died in his sleep when he was 18.

Looking up a doctor or clinic address on line just shows it exists, not that the doctor actually wrote a letter or even cares for the patient. And, leaving a message for a doctor isn’t as easy as doing a text. When we need to contact one of my daughter’s providers, it’s either leaving a message on the MyChart message system or calling the clinic, being on hold and leaving a message. Either one will get us a call or message back in about 2 working days.

This board began in 1999 and I’ve been a Moderator since the start. In 1999, many websites were saying guests needed to bring a doctor letter to request the program in effect at that time - GAC (Guest Assistance Card).
Some people posted then that their doctor required a visit to write a letter; others‘ doctors charged a fee for writing a letter, which is only fair because it did take the doctor’s time. The patient had to pay; insurance would not because neither the visit or letter were medically necessary.
On the other hand, some people got legitimate letters from their doctor without medical need. A couple situations I remember people reporting about:
- a healthy pregnant woman got a letter saying she was disabled (her doctor told her pregnant women deserve to not wait)
- a family with 3 non disabled children got a letter saying one was disabled (her doctor said anyone taking 3 small children deserved to not wait)

And, then there were blogs where people wrote how to get GAC. Some gave instructions and text for how to write a fake doctor letter, including how to make official looking letterhead

i personally think don’t think it’s fair or right to make peopke with real disabilities jump thru a bunch of hoops to address a perceived appearance of some possible cheats.

We have also seen plenty of people who got pixie dusted by CMs and given a FP or escorted to a ride for one reason or another. I've seen plenty of reports about this online and in person

 

[DisSurfer878]

To anybody on this thread who has said someone is not disabled enough because they got a return time and then went in line elsewhere; I cannot believe this needs explaining but:

getting a return time for a 2 hour wait for mine train, and then being able to wait in line for 15 minutes for the carousel does NOT mean they are "not disabled enough" to need a DAS and you need to be outta here with that nonsense.

 

[Branderson610]

Once, I asked a Disney Rep, why they don't require medical information like Six Flags does to get a DAS pass. The rep stated, they couldn't ask for that information because fast passes were free and monateraly there was no gain. Since, Six Flags charges for fast passes there is a monetary difference that allowed them to get paperwork because you are getting a paid service for free. So, maybe if Disney goes to paid fast passes they would implement a system that verifies for to get a DAS.