Disney Genie+ and ILL$ Details & FAQ - Launches 10/19 at WDW, Paid "FastPass" at WDW and Disneyland (date TBD)

[ChipnDale79]

While you have valid points, one thing you have incorrect is that Disney is out of their minds. The fact is, the demand is so high right now that people will pay for this system. People pay for similar services at other parks. People will show up in droves and pay 20 bucks to ride Rise of the Resistance. They could sell every boarding gorup every day at that price in seconds. That is our fault, not theirs. It definitely stinks for the consumer, but they are hardly out of their minds.

they arent out of their minds, for sure. right now the travel industry is booming because people have money, and have been stuck at home for awhile. The national parks are overcrowded now also.

The travel industry isnt going to continue down this path, there's a bubble at some point, and before Covid i feel disney was already flirting with it. But once we get through Covid and people dont have the money to burn, the travel industry isnt going to see this level of demand.

 

[BrianL]

they arent out of their minds, for sure. right now the travel industry is booming because people have money, and have been stuck at home for awhile. The national parks are overcrowded now also.

The travel industry isnt going to continue down this path, there's a bubble at some point, and before Covid i feel disney was already flirting with it. But once we get through Covid and people dont have the money to burn, the travel industry isnt going to see this level of demand.

You are likely right about that (I do work in the travel industry for Hilton - full disclosure). The thing is, that with this system Disney can make adjustments. They can offer packages with free Genie+ like they do with free dining, etc. I am sure they will absolutely change with the market, though knowing Disney, they will be a bit slow on the uptake.

 

[DefnotDLav]

Been trying to gather my thoughts and posted this on DVC Fan on Facebook - but thought I'd share it here too...

Saw lots of posts in support of Genie+ and Lightning Lane - I've taken some time to think about it since the announcement, I couldn't quite put my finger on why I hated the announcement so much - but I think I've started to put together why...

1. Recently we haven't had much good news out of Disney, in fact in terms of perks we've mostly lost perks:
a. Magicbands not included with on-site stay
b. Airport shuttle (Magical Express) not included with on-site stay
c. Extra Magic Hours no longer an on-site benefit (30 min mornings for all guests and Evenings for Deluxe only)
d. Fastpass no longer included with entry ticket
e. Restricted Park Hopping (2pm begins park hopping) - with no discount to the park hopping option
f. Restricted Park Passes for AP holders not staying on site (only 3 at a time, versus show up whenever you want).

2. A lot of the announcements have come down to controlling park overcrowding. But there is actually a few solutions to this problem that don't involve charging more or taking away perks
a. Build a 5th gate - when park overcrowding is an issue - you can invest some of those profits you've been making to construct something new that will help relieve park overcrowding. Maybe Galaxy's Edge should have been its own park? A 5th gate would help spread out crowds. Yes it costs Disney money, I think most of us would gladly pay more money, stay longer or make more trips to visit a 5th gate. At least we would see the money we pay to Disney at work to add some more value.
b. Reduce park crowds using Park Pass, you've already proven you can do this.

Ultimately what it comes down to for me is value - it isn't about the money, but Disney is in my opinion giving us less value and charging us more money - and it puts a sour taste in my mouth. While previously I feel like Disney would invest money into new an exciting things to earn more of our money - now it feels like Disney is taking away perks or charging for the right to use them and calling that guest satisfaction and value.

You cannot continually offer less and charge more and expect to continue to increase profits. Yes, Disney is a business and yes Disney needs to make money - I'm not saying they should be losing money. But what they should be doing is making us as customers feel like they're getting more value when they charge us more money instead of the current situation where I feel like they're taking away things and charging us more - and that is what gives me pause with this most recent announcement for Genie+. Yeah $15 per person per day doesn't sound that expensive, but if you visit Disney for 2 weeks a year, and have a family of four, does spending an extra $840 per year sound like a lot more? It isn't that I can't afford it - it is just that I don't think I'm getting the same value I got from Disney as before.

I know some people will say - just don't pay for Genie+ - you have that option. But this was an included perk we used to have and was taken away. Don't act like this is something new that we've never had before. I work for a company that is extremely customer focused as well - and one thing we try not to ever do is offer something for free and then take it away or try to charge customers for something that was previously free - because we've found you lose a lot of customers that way.

Ultimately Disney is making us pay for their problems with overcrowding, rides breaking down and not being reliable or being able to handle enough riders per day (looking at you RoTR). It is an experiment to see just how much we're willing to continue to pay for things - and if it works, expect more up charges in the future.

What is the next upcharge that we'll see? Free parking at the parks for On-site guests? Being charged to ride the transportation? Being charged just to ride the rides at the parks? Expect the microtransactions to continue if this is successful.

Anyway that is my very long diatribe - thanks for reading if you made it this far

I'm with you for the most part.

However, they don't need to build a 5th gate. How about just having 2015 MK hours instead of vastly reducing them when attendance rises YOY, and how about building out capacity to match attendance growth?

Nah, where's the upcharge opportunity in that?!

Reduced capacity vs reduced hours = Commercial opportunity

 

[ChipnDale79]

You are likely right about that (I do work in the travel industry for Hilton - full disclosure). The thing is, that with this system Disney can make adjustments. They can offer packages with free Genie+ like they do with free dining, etc. I am sure they will absolutely change with the market, though knowing Disney, they will be a bit slow on the uptake.

100% agree, there will be promos for things to bring the pricing back down to "normal".

 

[luv2cheer92]

Those are the price points i remembered paying as well, so that was one of the reasons why i got upset.

FWIW I've seen many dates at Pop next year around $140-150ish, some dates even a little lower.

 

[Tyler's Dad]

I have a couple of questions for people who are really upset about this. Just curious on what people think,

Disney has not increased ticket prices since 2019. If they had just increased all levels of tickets $15 per day, do you think you would have reacted the same way? I figure this way, you have the choice on that increase in price or not. If you have annual passes, what if they would have raised them $100 or so?

As for lines, what makes you think the Genie+ lines won’t be controlled so the standby line moves better? I have seen numbers like 8 out of every 10 people getting on rides were FP+ guests in the past. If that number changes, maybe those standby lines will actually move. As we’ve seen during the shutdown, no fast passes has actually helped the lines. Maybe Disney is counting on people not wanting to pay for the headliners and just getting people through the standby lines better. Whatever revenue they get from people paying to ride is just a bonus.

Finally, why do people keep saying they have to be up at 7 each day? You have the option to get up at 7 and buy Genie+ or the LL rides you want each day, but there is no requirement. I haven’t seen anything say Disney will limit the number of Genie+ tickets each day, so the only benefit to buying early is that first ride you pick. If it works like paper fast pass, the only benefit you will get is getting an early time, but then that says you were planning on getting there at rope drop anyways. We go later in the day, so we will buy it or lump it in with our tickets for our resort stay and just use it like we always used paper fast passes and take the best one available and wait in standby lines for other rides. With LL on headliners, the few people buying onto a ride should keep lines moving. I see those as more of an on demand item and sure, buying them at 7 to plan your day could be nice, but not needed by any means. There is nothing I see that is going to make me wake up at 7 to jump on and buy something. What am I missing?

 

[dato63]

19. Do I have to purchase Genie+ for the entire length of my trip?
If purchased as part of a vacation package ahead of your visit, Genie+ is purchased for the entire length of the stay at $15 per ticket per day.
If not purchased ahead of time, Genie+ can be added on a day-by-day basis.

I'm assuming the highlighted text to mean that it can be added anytime before you use your ticket. Again, I'm just assuming and we all know what to ***-U-ME can mean. No offense but it's a quote from a movie and I just couldn't help myself.

Thank you. I did find that answer, but didn't think to come back and remove my question. And, that quote hits me whenever I see assume as well.

The more I read, the less I hate this.

It just seems like it would have been easier, and maybe even more profitable for Disney to just hike all tickets $15 a day, and bring back the free FP+ to handle the ride lines rather than introduce a whole new system.

 

[HopperFan]

100% correct but by doing this WDW will actually make more money.

The profit % on G+ and LL is going to be near 100% where as dining with Pooh involves more CMs, variable of food prices & upkeep of the restaurant.

I still think the demand for G+ and LL is going to be HUGE and they are in for a rough few months of no G+ selections available and LL sold out all by lunch...until they raise their prices.

I kinda agree with you other than not quite 100% because Disney's IT .... it's going to need LOTS of maintenance and extra CMs on the ground to deal with issues, kiosk assistance, extras on the "Lanes". But you are right no inventory costs.

But guests expect the other experiences, they won't go away so it's up to Disney to make sure they maximize their profits there. The can't cannibalize themselves.

 

[DefnotDLav]

FWIW I've seen many dates at Pop next year around $140-150ish, some dates even a little lower.

That will be an improvement on this year where not one rack rate night was below $160. Perhaps some good discounts coming.

https://touringplans.com/walt-disney-world/hotels/disneys-pop-century-resort/rates/2021

 

[cakebaker]

I haven’t seen anything say Disney will limit the number of Genie+ tickets each day, so the only benefit to buying early is that first ride you pick.

They have to limit the number of LP's they issue, otherwise it would overcrowd the LP lane. There's no way is there unlimted availability. I would expect them to run out just like they did with FP and FP+. As I've said before, the only way to avoid that is to make it significantly more expensive and people would have fits over that too.

 

[Simba's Mom]

I agree, $15 in itself isn't a big deal. However, think of all the perks that Disney has taken away in the last year or so as a stack of pennies. Each perk-no luggage pick-up for Magical Express, no more free Magic Bands, no more free 3FP+, etc. means another penny on the stack. At some point, the stack crashes over. So this "only $15" could also be called "the straw that broke the camel's back".

 

[DefnotDLav]

I have a couple of questions for people who are really upset about this. Just curious on what people think,

Disney has not increased ticket prices since 2019. If they had just increased all levels of tickets $15 per day, do you think you would have reacted the same way? I figure this way, you have the choice on that increase in price or not. If you have annual passes, what if they would have raised them $100 or so?

As for lines, what makes you think the Genie+ lines won’t be controlled so the standby line moves better? I have seen numbers like 8 out of every 10 people getting on rides were FP+ guests in the past. If that number changes, maybe those standby lines will actually move. As we’ve seen during the shutdown, no fast passes has actually helped the lines. Maybe Disney is counting on people not wanting to pay for the headliners and just getting people through the standby lines better. Whatever revenue they get from people paying to ride is just a bonus.

Finally, why do people keep saying they have to be up at 7 each day? You have the option to get up at 7 and buy Genie+ or the LL rides you want each day, but there is no requirement. I haven’t seen anything say Disney will limit the number of Genie+ tickets each day, so the only benefit to buying early is that first ride you pick. If it works like paper fast pass, the only benefit you will get is getting an early time, but then that says you were planning on getting there at rope drop anyways. We go later in the day, so we will buy it or lump it in with our tickets for our resort stay and just use it like we always used paper fast passes and take the best one available and wait in standby lines for other rides. With LL on headliners, the few people buying onto a ride should keep lines moving. I see those as more of an on demand item and sure, buying them at 7 to plan your day could be nice, but not needed by any means. There is nothing I see that is going to make me wake up at 7 to jump on and buy something. What am I missing?

They couldn't raise prices the last two years for obvious reasons.

Do you think they will not raise prices for 2022?

They raised them steeply from 2014-2019 and there was always the "well FP is included." Now it's not. No discount given, and I'm positive they will still raise ticket prices next year.

Also, you can't get a fast pass now for the top tier attractions without paying. No free option on that anymore. That has been taken away and replaced with only a paid option.

The price point is low enough where enough people will buy it and clog up rides like HM. Standby will still be long enough and slow enough where there will be no improvement for those that didn't purchase G$. If HM was a 25 minute standby breeze, why would anyone pay for G$? The secondary rides are not going to have improved standbys. Just my hunch..

 

[Tyler's Dad]

They have to limit the number of LP's they issue, otherwise it would overcrowd the LP lane. There's no way is there unlimted availability. I would expect them to run out just like they did with FP and FP+. As I've said before, the only way to avoid that is to make it significantly more expensive and people would have fits over that too.

I agree that they will limit the number of LL passes for each ride, but not the number of people that can buy Genie+. Why would they? More people buying might mean the LL access runs out sooner, but that’s no different than fast passes.

 

[Tyler's Dad]

They couldn't raise prices the last two years for obvious reasons.

Do you think they will not raise prices for 2022?

They raised them steeply from 2014-2019 and there was always the "well FP is included." Now it's not. No discount given, and I'm positive they will still raise ticket prices next year.

Also, you can't get a fast pass now for the top tier attractions without paying. No free option on that anymore. That has been taken away and replaced with only a paid option.

The price point is low enough where enough people will buy it and clog up rides like HM. Standby will still be long enough and slow enough where there will be no improvement for those that didn't purchase G$. If HM was a 25 minute standby breeze, why would anyone pay for G$? The secondary rides are not going to have improved standbys. Just my hunch..

Right, so if they would have said “Hey, we couldn’t raise prices for 2 years because of the pandemic, so we are going to do a big hike to catch-up”, people wouldn’t have reacted so much. I would guess increases now will be more in line with the $4-$8 per tier they had been going up now.

As for fast pass, I think they got out of control. People were complaining if they couldn’t book a headliner 60 days out, but they were giving way too many out and couldn’t get it under control. Standby lines we’re getting worse and worse. I think this is an adjustment to make people able to get in standby lines and know they might actually move again.

 

[Moliphino]

I have a couple of questions for people who are really upset about this. Just curious on what people think,

Disney has not increased ticket prices since 2019. If they had just increased all levels of tickets $15 per day, do you think you would have reacted the same way? I figure this way, you have the choice on that increase in price or not. If you have annual passes, what if they would have raised them $100 or so?

Are you sure? With the dated tickets now it's harder to see because they can change pricing on individual days. Like, sure the "starting from" price could be the same, but they could make fewer low days available.

 

[DefnotDLav]

What does AK look like with this?

If you don't get there early, why even buy G$?

There aren't enough rides and if enough people got there early and bought it, if you get there at 10 is your first option going to be Bug's Life at 4:15 pm? At that point can you ask for a refund?

 

[DefnotDLav]

Right, so if they would have said “Hey, we couldn’t raise prices for 2 years because of the pandemic, so we are going to do a big hike to catch-up”, people wouldn’t have reacted so much. I would guess increases now will be more in line with the $4-$8 per tier they had been going up now.

As for fast pass, I think they got out of control. People were complaining if they couldn’t book a headliner 60 days out, but they were giving way too many out and couldn’t get it under control. Standby lines we’re getting worse and worse. I think this is an adjustment to make people able to get in standby lines and know they might actually move again.

So if they raise prices next year, and then raise prices on G+, you'll be fine with that?

Also, this is an expensive price hike. You have lost the ability to get a skip the line for the headliners. So your low introductory rate of $15 doesn't even account for you wanting to skip the 2 hour FOP line. That's another $20. So you've now experienced a 25% ticket hike in one year and that doesn't even account for whatever the next hike will be.........

 

[Moliphino]

Are you sure? With the dated tickets now it's harder to see because they can change pricing on individual days. Like, sure the "starting from" price could be the same, but they could make fewer low days available.

For funsies I priced out the same general week in March 2022 that we had booked for 2020. 9 day PH starting on a Saturday. I paid $583 in 2020, for 2022 it's $652.59 (both through Undercover Tourist).

 

[Tyler's Dad]

Are you sure? With the dated tickets now it's harder to see because they can change pricing on individual days. Like, sure the "starting from" price could be the same, but they could make fewer low days available.

Tiered pricing has not changed since 2019. At that time they added Holidays as a tier and raised prices. Have they changed the number of days in each tier or shifted some, I have no idea. I’m just looking at it as they very easily could have raised all of the tiers $20 each to correct for 2 years and kept things as is, but that’s just making more money on the same broken system.

 

[DefnotDLav]

Right, so if they would have said “Hey, we couldn’t raise prices for 2 years because of the pandemic, so we are going to do a big hike to catch-up”, people wouldn’t have reacted so much. I would guess increases now will be more in line with the $4-$8 per tier they had been going up now.

As for fast pass, I think they got out of control. People were complaining if they couldn’t book a headliner 60 days out, but they were giving way too many out and couldn’t get it under control. Standby lines we’re getting worse and worse. I think this is an adjustment to make people able to get in standby lines and know they might actually move again.

Well there goes that argument.

So we got two price hikes.

Still not seeing why people are peeved?

There's no defense on this one that will hold up.

For funsies I priced out the same general week in March 2022 that we had booked for 2020. 9 day PH starting on a Saturday. I paid $583 in 2020, for 2022 it's $652.59 (both through ******************).