Disney Skyliner (Gondola Transportation System) Read Post 1 Now Open!

[Lee Matthews]

Wouldn't read too much into it. Typical Jim Hill

 

[Spork24]

I've heard something interesting on the Gondola front. This could be the future of Mass transit in Disney World. According to the Disney Dish Podcast that came out on Monday, Jim Hill said this could cover everything except the Monorail loop resorts. Could a Gondola system provide high capacity transportation resort ride? If there is 16 in a vehicle with 80 vehicles, that is 1280 at any one time. Times four runs an hour meaning the theoretical capacity is only 5180. Not anywhere close to a Light Rail system (baltimore's for example) that can handle 25K an hour. I don't think there's enough capacity for this to replace buses. This may be something to drive people to the Driverless cars that Disney Dish is talking about.

But we aren't talking about replacing baltimores light rail with gondolas, we're talking about replacing busses.

I also don't think we're talking about replacing 100% of the busses with these, it would take forever to get from AKL to MK.

AKL to AK would be a slam dunk case for these. Especially as it's the only delux that currently has no forms of alternative transportation other than busses

But for example let's look at SSR and OKW, it might be feasible to put in a gondola to Epcot/studios.

So let's say they have 4 busses an hour currently running to the parks from each resort. So that's 16 busses an hour combined from the two resorts to both Epcot and HS. At 75 people per buss (complete guess on standing room capacity) then that's only 1200 people per hour. Even though I expect gondola size to be 8-10, a single gondola line from those two resorts to those two parks should have enough capacity.

 

[joelkfla]

Times four runs an hour meaning the theoretical capacity is only 5180. Not anywhere close to a Light Rail system (baltimore's for example) that can handle 25K an hour. I don't think there's enough capacity for this to replace buses. This may be something to drive people to the Driverless cars that Disney Dish is talking about.

Doppelmayr Garaventa puts theoretical capacity at 4500 pph.

But we aren't talking about replacing baltimores light rail with gondolas, we're talking about replacing busses.

I also don't think we're talking about replacing 100% of the busses with these, it would take forever to get from AKL to MK.

AKL to AK would be a slam dunk case for these. Especially as it's the only delux that currently has no forms of alternative transportation other than busses

But for example let's look at SSR and OKW, it might be feasible to put in a gondola to Epcot/studios.

So let's say they have 4 busses an hour currently running to the parks from each resort. So that's 16 busses an hour combined from the two resorts to both Epcot and HS. At 75 people per buss (complete guess on standing room capacity) then that's only 1200 people per hour. Even though I expect gondola size to be 8-10, a single gondola line from those two resorts to those two parks should have enough capacity.

75 is a good estimate for bus capacity, but it can get higher if Guests are really crammed in.

The largest gondola DG offers for monocable systems (MGD) is 15 passenger. Tricable systems (TGD) can have larger cabins, but they're more complex, more expensive, and more visually obtrusive due to needing hefty steel lattice towers, so I don't think Disney would go with that.

Distance from AKL to MK as the crow flies is under 5 mi. MGD top online speed is 6 m/s, which is about 13.4 mph. That comes out to about 22 min. trip time, which is not that far behind the bus travel time, and you have the advantage of continuous loading.

I agree that Epcot to OKW & SSR is a good application, but I would add PO. All 4 resorts are physically close to each other, and just across a narrow wooded area from Epcot front gate.

I don't think Disney would go with gondolas as their primary transit mode, because of the wind restrictions. I've seen statements that MGD systems are safe to run in winds up to 35mph. That would force a proactive park shutdown whenever there was any possibility of gale force winds.

 

[STLstone]

Doppelmayr Garaventa puts theoretical capacity at 4500 pph.

75 is a good estimate for bus capacity, but it can get higher if Guests are really crammed in.

The largest gondola DG offers for monocable systems (MGD) is 15 passenger. Tricable systems (TGD) can have larger cabins, but they're more complex, more expensive, and more visually obtrusive due to needing hefty steel lattice towers, so I don't think Disney would go with that.

Distance from AKL to MK as the crow flies is under 5 mi. MGD top online speed is 6 m/s, which is about 13.4 mph. That comes out to about 22 min. trip time, which is not that far behind the bus travel time, and you have the advantage of continuous loading.

I agree that Epcot to OKW & SSR is a good application, but I would add PO. All 4 resorts are physically close to each other, and just across a narrow wooded area from Epcot front gate.

I don't think Disney would go with gondolas as their primary transit mode, because of the wind restrictions. I've seen statements that MGD systems are safe to run in winds up to 35mph. That would force a proactive park shutdown whenever there was any possibility of gale force winds.

The continuous loading will be a big plus - psychologically, at least. You're never waiting for a bus or monorail. If there is a line, it will be constantly moving as people in front of you get on their gondola.

Of course there will be some occasional stops as some guests that need a bit more time to get on and off are transferring, but overall it should be pretty continuous.

 

[sachilles]

The continuous loading will be a big plus - psychologically, at least. You're never waiting for a bus or monorail. If there is a line, it will be constantly moving as people in front of you get on their gondola.

Of course there will be some occasional stops as some guests that need a bit more time to get on and off are transferring, but overall it should be pretty continuous.

That hits the nail on the head. Psychologically, he constant loading with be a big hit.
Nothing worse than waiting for what seems like forever(but really only 5 - 10 minutes) for a bus when you are amped up to get to the parks, or exhausted and your family needs to get to bed.

 

[airsdaddy]

Doppelmayr Garaventa puts theoretical capacity at 4500 pph.

75 is a good estimate for bus capacity, but it can get higher if Guests are really crammed in.

The largest gondola DG offers for monocable systems (MGD) is 15 passenger. Tricable systems (TGD) can have larger cabins, but they're more complex, more expensive, and more visually obtrusive due to needing hefty steel lattice towers, so I don't think Disney would go with that.

Distance from AKL to MK as the crow flies is under 5 mi. MGD top online speed is 6 m/s, which is about 13.4 mph. That comes out to about 22 min. trip time, which is not that far behind the bus travel time, and you have the advantage of continuous loading.

I agree that Epcot to OKW & SSR is a good application, but I would add PO. All 4 resorts are physically close to each other, and just across a narrow wooded area from Epcot front gate.

I don't think Disney would go with gondolas as their primary transit mode, because of the wind restrictions. I've seen statements that MGD systems are safe to run in winds up to 35mph. That would force a proactive park shutdown whenever there was any possibility of gale force winds.

The AKL to MK line would be feasible looking at your numbers...provided we are talking a direct line. If you have to transfer anywhere, those times become far worse than a bus.

But as you said, and others have said, I really think the gondolas are intended to supplement the other methods of transportation. There are enough variables that are out of Disney control to make it unlikely that it would be the only method.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

The AKL to MK line would be feasible looking at your numbers...provided we are talking a direct line. If you have to transfer anywhere, those times become far worse than a bus.

But as you said, and others have said, I really think the gondolas are intended to supplement the other methods of transportation. There are enough variables that are out of Disney control to make it unlikely that it would be the only method.

Wonder if they could just extend it from DHS to get to Coronado and AK

 

[mickeyfanachey1999]

But we aren't talking about replacing baltimores light rail with gondolas, we're talking about replacing busses.

I also don't think we're talking about replacing 100% of the busses with these, it would take forever to get from AKL to MK.

AKL to AK would be a slam dunk case for these. Especially as it's the only delux that currently has no forms of alternative transportation other than busses

But for example let's look at SSR and OKW, it might be feasible to put in a gondola to Epcot/studios.

So let's say they have 4 busses an hour currently running to the parks from each resort. So that's 16 busses an hour combined from the two resorts to both Epcot and HS. At 75 people per buss (complete guess on standing room capacity) then that's only 1200 people per hour. Even though I expect gondola size to be 8-10, a single gondola line from those two resorts to those two parks should have enough capacity.

That route may be tricky with the golf course to contend with. I would love a gondola to the studios from OKW though. Hopping on a quick gondola ride go hit my favorite ride would be awesome!

 

[OSUZorba]

Depending on how they do the turning stations and the pass through at CBR, I wouldn't be that surprised if the gondola ended up slower than buses for people at POP and AoA. The turning stations I've been it are all just as slow as the loading station.

I think this will be a cool system, and I could see some more being added, but I really don't foresee it replacing all bus transportation on property, because the more stations and turns you put in the longer the ride. You also have to figure out how to handle the logistics of more people getting on than off at the intermediate stops, etc. You would also still have to run intra-resort buses to get people to and from the stations.

 

[umichigan10]

Depending on how they do the turning stations and the pass through at CBR, I wouldn't be that surprised if the gondola ended up slower than buses for people at POP and AoA. The turning stations I've been it are all just as slow as the loading station.

I think this will be a cool system, and I could see some more being added, but I really don't foresee it replacing all bus transportation on property, because the more stations and turns you put in the longer the ride. You also have to figure out how to handle the logistics of more people getting on than off at the intermediate stops, etc. You would also still have to run intra-resort buses to get people to and from the stations.

My assumption is one line will run from animation to Caribbean, one from Caribbean to Epcot, and another Caribbean to studios.

 

[OSUZorba]

My assumption is one line will run from animation to Caribbean, one from Caribbean to Epcot, and another Caribbean to studios.

That is probably a decent assumption. But if true, transit times from POP/AoA could easily be worse than busing, especially at peakk times.

 

[joelkfla]

That is probably a decent assumption. But if true, transit times from POP/AoA could easily be worse than busing, especially at peakk times.

I would expect Disney to supplement with buses at peak times, these being the 2 largest resorts on property.

 

[umichigan10]

That is probably a decent assumption. But if true, transit times from POP/AoA could easily be worse than busing, especially at peakk times.

Definitely possible, I just don't see how it would work logistically having one big line from Animation to Epcot. I can see slog of annoyed people waiting to go to Epcot from Caribbean getting peeved from full gondolas passing by

 

[DBDiz]

Wonder if they could just extend it from DHS to get to Coronado and AK

View attachment 252327

If they do something along those lines, I fail to see how they don't include Blizzard Beach, especially since they cut direct bus services. Perhaps routing the main line through the water park and an offshoot up to Coronado? Or vice versa, the main branch through Coronado with an offshoot down to the water park.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

If they do something along those lines, I fail to see how they don't include Blizzard Beach, especially since they cut direct bus services. Perhaps routing the main line through the water park and an offshoot up to Coronado? Or vice versa, the main branch through Coronado with an offshoot down to the water park.

Plus if a gondola fits the theme of any park t would be one that mimics a ski slope

 

[umichigan10]

If they do something along those lines, I fail to see how they don't include Blizzard Beach, especially since they cut direct bus services. Perhaps routing the main line through the water park and an offshoot up to Coronado? Or vice versa, the main branch through Coronado with an offshoot down to the water park.

I think if this project is successful they could definitely look into doing it as localized transit between resort areas. First that comes to mind is OKW, Saratoga, port Orleans area, that could easily be linked to Epcot

 

[DBDiz]

I think if this project is successful they could definitely look into doing it as localized transit between resort areas. First that comes to mind is OKW, Saratoga, port Orleans area, that could easily be linked to Epcot

I have to wonder how easily any of the loading stations going into the existing plan could be modified as passthroughs for future expansions.

The downside to doing that is if you have everything linked up to one single system or even several localized branches, eventually you hit passenger capacity because EVERYONE on site is moving through EPCOT to go elsewhere.

 

[OSUZorba]

I have to wonder how easily any of the loading stations going into the existing plan could be modified as passthroughs for future expansions.

The downside to doing that is if you have everything linked up to one single system or even several localized branches, eventually you hit passenger capacity because EVERYONE on site is moving through EPCOT to go elsewhere.

Not to mention going from OKW to AK could require going through 3 or 4 or more branches, of getting off and back on, unless they have some way of transferring the whole gondola from one line to another. When it was all said and done, you'd probably be looking at an hour or more to go from OKW to AK after you got on the first gondola.

Again, I think this will be cool. I just don't see it becoming a property wide network connecting everyone to everything.

 

[Spork24]

There will always be some limit to gondola systems, but it could for sure be expanded to eliminate a measurable percentage of the bus routes.

 

[joelkfla]

Not to mention going from OKW to AK could require going through 3 or 4 or more branches, of getting off and back on, unless they have some way of transferring the whole gondola from one line to another. When it was all said and done, you'd probably be looking at an hour or more to go from OKW to AK after you got on the first gondola.

Again, I think this will be cool. I just don't see it becoming a property wide network connecting everyone to everything.

Cabins definitely can transfer from one rope to another at stations. That's what happens at turning stations; the cabins enter the station on one rope loop and exit on another.

The equivalent of track switches are used at stations on combined lifts, which run chairs and gondolas on the same rope. Chairs are routed to one loading platform, and gondolas to a different one. I don't know whether switches have ever been used to route cabins to a choice of multiple destinations from a station; seems like it would require a rather complex setup.

IMO, if more gondola routes are installed, they will be for local transport between hubs and nearby resorts. But really we're all just speculating here. There are numerous solutions that Disney could choose for expanding their transportation, and no indication that there will be any gondolas beyond what's currently rumored.