DVC and Divorce, will either of us lose our blue card?

[Airb330]

We have six DVC contracts. Both of our names are on all 6. We are blue card from our 2012 resale purchase of AKV, but we would've been based on our 2023 VDH purchase.

AKL 100 (August 2012, resale) got blue card here
VGF 50 (May 2013, direct)
VGF 75 (December 2016, resale)
AUL 100 (December 2018, resale)
VDH 75 (May 2023, direct) already had blue card, but would've gotten it here anyways
VDH 75 (May 2023, direct)

We definitely will be selling some. I understand we can leave things be and co-own the ones we want to keep for now. I don't see that being a problem, but long-term I would prefer to be completely separate. Say I keep one and he keeps one. We sell 4. Do we do a quitclaim at that point on the 2 we kept? But would we then lose our blue card status? Or the ability to stay at newer resorts etc.? If so, I'd rather just co-own and figure it out if need be.

I am not worried about selling what we want and keeping what we want. It's losing blue card and potentially being limited on where the points could be used. Would DVC see us as new members? This is what I'm worried about the most, "Resale points purchased from the original 14 DVC resorts cannot be used at Riviera, Villas at Disneyland Hotel, and Cabins at Fort Wilderness."

 

[Sandisw]

If each of you is a co-owner and now become just a single owner via the divorce, there should not be an issue

But blue card and where points can be used are two different things.

Resale points bought after Jan 2019 are restricted. You don’t have any of those so no matter which ones each of you keeps will be good to use points everywhere

The membership extras restrictions began with resale contracts bought after early 2016.

The AUL one from 2018 and the VDH from 2023, if you own just one of those, would make you ineligible for the blue card.

The resale is out and out right ineligible but the VDH contracts only qualify if you keep both since membership extras requires 150 points bought direct at this time.

 

[Airb330]

@Sandisw Ah yes I was hoping you would respond, you've always been helpful! Since the dates are pretty important I updated my original post.

I get they are separate but thanks for putting it on paper so much better than I could.

But, I now see a potential issue. These are the 2 I'd like to keep in a perfect world:

VGF 75 (December 2016, resale)
AUL 100 (2018, resale)

Good to know, I am free of the point restriction nonsense. What a mess there huh?!

Now I am concerned if these are my only two, I'll be locked out of membership extras. Honestly do not care about any of them except TOTWL. Now I wonder if I just keep both VGF and let Aulani go? It's subsidized though, so it's great for holidays in Hawaii and the CHEAP dues are great at WDW at 7 months. Worst case I can keep all 3 but I was trying to be thrifty! Again, thanks.

 

[Sandisw]

Since the one VGF bought direct is more than 25 points, which was the minimum that you needed back then to be eligible, thst would allow you to have the membership extras as well.

Keeping all three does give you everything you want in terms of unrestricted and membership extras.

You can also get it all by keeping the smaller VGF and AUL. But that gives you 50 fewer points.

 

[WDWEPCOT]

Having just gone through this in a divorce I can tell you that I wanted to purchase in my name only even though I was a member along with my ex at the time I was considered a new member because I was getting points in just my name - I did challenge that and lost They considered the membership number as being a number for the two of us so I wanted to get points for just me I was a brand new member - so if you can get it split for your membership by all means do that!
Because now I’m starting fresh all over I will have to buy resale before I will buy direct so I can get membership discount pricing
It’s not like DVC is going anywhere and I can purchase what I want this time
I wish you all the best!!

 

[Airb330]

Since the one VGF bought direct is more than 25 points, which was the minimum that you needed back then to be eligible, thst would allow you to have the membership extras as well.

Keeping all three does give you everything you want in terms of unrestricted and membership extras.

You can also get it all by keeping the smaller VGF and AUL. But that gives you 50 fewer points.

Yup, makes sense. I'll do all 3, 125 at VGF won't kill me.

Having just gone through this in a divorce I can tell you that I wanted to purchase in my name only even though I was a member along with my ex at the time I was considered a new member because I was getting points in just my name - I did challenge that and lost They considered the membership number as being a number for the two of us so I wanted to get points for just me I was a brand new member - so if you can get it split for your membership by all means do that!
Because now I’m starting fresh all over I will have to buy resale before I will buy direct so I can get membership discount pricing
It’s not like DVC is going anywhere and I can purchase what I want this time
I wish you all the best!!

Thanks @WDWEPCOT I appreciate the input but I am a little confused here. I can intrepert this 2 ways and I am sure in person this would come across very clear.

1. Are you saying when you removed his name, you got a new membership # and therefore your "old" contracts were all under the lens of 2024 DVC resale restrictions? We do have the same member number. Same # since 2012 with 2 names. @Sandisw any thoughts on this? I'd hate to do all of this and suddenly get a new member # and 0 perks (again really only want TOTWL lol).

Or are you saying (more likely)
2. You wanted to buy new points in your name only post-divorce. Therefore you would get a new member # for any new purchase. You'd be paying the 'full price' on them, even though by most metrics most reasonable people woud argue you aren't 'new' to DVC?

What worries me is from https://www.disboards.com/threads/remove-name-from-multiple-dvc-deeds-under-same-membership.3913607/ :

Please note the following guidelines for transfers:
1. All mortgages must be paid in full in order for the transfer to be completed.
2. Annual dues can remain on AutoPay if the paying Member is remaining on the Membership.
3. If you own multiple contracts and are NOT updating all contracts to be titled the same, a separate Member ID number will be created for the updated contract(s).
4. Reservations will remain active provided they are not using points from multiple contracts.
5. New Members added to your contract(s) will receive the same benefits that you currently receive for the contracts to which they are added.

 

[WDWEPCOT]

I was going to buy points myself only this was while we still jointly owned points - we were not divorced yet - since our member # was joint and I wanted points as just me - DVC said I was a new member - I argued that and lost the argument so it would be new member pricing if it was just my name only and not both our names - so I said no not at this time
So here’s a good one for you so then the agent comes back and says that she could possibly give me DVC pricing because of the joint membership / I’m like what? You’re considering a new member but you’re going to give me DVC pricing?? Make that make sense?? You’re going to require me to buy 150 points to be a blue card member but you’re going to give me DVC pricing but you’re gonna tell me I’m not a DC member? Extremely en raging phone this call went on for sometime and it did go to a manager got me nowhere except frustrated this was the first time in all my years I’ve ever been frustrated with DVC this is probably my fifth guide they just keep disappearing

 

[RoseGold]

IMO, there is absolutely zero chance I would co-own any of this. Decades of potential mess in multiple states, which you may not even live in. Somebody cancels your trip, someone didn't pay the dues, bankruptcy, future divorce, I can keep going. Nope. I am getting this resolved in the divorce cleanly one way or another, even if it means losing my Blue Card. This maybe means forcing sale or dues payments or whatever.

Retitling these is a pain, but it's definitely doable. It's much easier than multi-state mess down the road and the general mess of divorce.

I don't see why you can't split it so one takes the AKL and one takes the VGC. I would strongly prefer the AKL.

Another idea would be something like put the AKL into an LLC that belongs to your adult kid and put both of you on the board to keep Blue Card, something like that. Then it's up to the LLC (your kid) who keeps the Blue Card.

The properties of the points follow the points, not the Blue Card. So the restrictions would be because you bought restricted points, not because you did or didn't hold on to the Blue Card in the divorce.

There's something to be said for simplicity, and that would be cash in this context. Points are points. Heck, cash it all out and buy Poly2 or resale SSR.

 

[drusba]

April 4, 2016 is the start date for resale purchases made on or after that date no longer having membership extras. Thus, if you kept only the December 2016 VGF and Aulani 2018 contracts, you would not have membership extras. Moreover, adding just one of the VDH contracts would still leave you without membership extras. Having both VDH contracts would give you membership extras; moreover, having the 2012 AKV or 2013 VGF contract would do the same.

Any particular contract cannot be split with each keeping a share. However, having a deed transfer done where both transfer to just one of you will leave the recipient with whatever rights existed under the original contract, including membership extras if it qualified for them.

There is an issue though that you need to be careful about. For any transfer of ownership that does not also involve transferring money, the recipient will keep whatever rights existed under the original contract. However, if for example, you end up doing some agreement where you pay your husband some money for the transfer to you of any of the contracts, or he pays you some money for such transfer to him, DVD could potentially treat that as a resale, for which it has right of first refusal, and for which the recipient will have a contract that itself has no rights to membership extras and will also be unable to reserve Riviera or VDH with such points (unless the contract is one of the VDH contracts, in which case you would be able to reserve VDH but nowhere else).

In other words, as to whatever might be agreed to as part of the divorce, attaching any money to the transfers done to give you sole ownership of a contract should be avoided.

 

[sndral]

April 4, 2026 is the start date for resale purchases made on or after that date no longer having membership extras. Thus, if you kept only the December 2016 VGF and Aulani 2028 contracts, you would not have membership extras. Moreover, adding to those just one of the VDH contracts would still leave you without membership extras. Having both VDH contracts would give you membership extras; moreover, having the 2012 AKV or 2013 VGF contract would do the same.

Any particular contract cannot be split with each keeping a share. However, having a deed transfer done where both transfer to just one of you will leave the recipient with whatever rights existed under the original contract, including membership extras if it qualified for them.

There is an issue though that you need to be careful about. For any transfer of ownership that does not also involve transferring money, the recipient will keep whatever rights existed under the original contract. However, if for example, you end up doing some agreement where you pay your husband some money for the transfer to you of any of the contracts, or he pays you some money for such transfer to him, DVD could potentially treat that as a resale, for which it has right of first refusal, and for which the recipient will have a contract that itself has no rights to membership extras and will also be unable to reserve Riviera or VDH with such points (unless of contract is one of the VDH contracts, in which case you would be able to reserve VDH but nowhere else).

In other words, as to whatever might be agreed to as part of the divorce, attaching any money to the transfers done to give you sole ownership of a resort should be avoided.

Do you mean April 4, 2016 rather than 2026?

 

[drusba]

Do you mean April 4, 2016 rather than 2026?

Yes, correction made.

 

[RoseGold]

Any particular contract cannot be split with each keeping a share. However, having a deed transfer done where both transfer to just one of you will leave the recipient with whatever rights existed under the original contract, including membership extras if it qualified for them.

Really? I don't see how that is possible when the deed is transfered through the county, at least in Florida. I guess I haven't seen the paperwork that goes along with it, but that seems like a very uneven, possibly even nightmare result to me.

Workaround could be the LLC, which is obviously a completely different entity?

If you're right, then I would seriously consider forced sale of all of them. Who cares about the Blue Card. I would much rather avoid decades of cross state mess. Buy a new Blue Card.

 

[Sandisw]

Really? I don't see how that is possible when the deed is transfered through the county, at least in Florida. I guess I haven't seen the paperwork that goes along with it, but that seems like a very uneven, possibly even nightmare result to me.

Workaround could be the LLC, which is obviously a completely different entity?

If you're right, then I would seriously consider forced sale of all of them. Who cares about the Blue Card. I would much rather avoid decades of cross state mess. Buy a new Blue Card.

Because DVC allows gratuitous transfers in cases of divorce to happen and those contracts retain all their original rules.

So, if a husband and wife decide which contracts they want to keep after the divorce, all they need to do is file for a change of title to remove the other and they become sole owner of that contract.

Once done, it’s like they were sole owner from the start.

 

[RoseGold]

So, if a husband and wife decide which contracts they want to keep after the divorce, all they need to do is file for a change of title to remove the other and they become sole owner of that contract.

Once done, it’s like they were sole owner from the start.

Right, @drusba was saying it was the opposite? And that even title change wouldn't change it? Transfering title and the ex still having rights on it sounds awful.

I've never seen the gratuitous transfer forms, but I don't see why that would be the outcome. It's a worst case scenario in divorce.

 

[Sandisw]

Because DVC allows gratuitous transfers in cases of divorce and death to happen and those contracts retain all their original rules.

So, if a husband and wife decide which contracts they want to keep after the divorce, all they need to do is file for a change of title to remove the other and they become sole powner of that contract.

Right, @drusba was saying it was the opposite? And that even title change wouldn't change it? Transfering title and the ex still having rights on it sounds awful.

I've never seen the gratuitous transfer forms, but I don't see why that would be the outcome. It's a worst case scenario in divorce.

When she was referring to being split she meant they can’t take one contract and turn it into two and each own part of it indivually.

She wasn’t referring to each spouse talking sold ownership of an existing contract.

 

[drusba]

Really? I don't see how that is possible when the deed is transfered through the county, at least in Florida. I guess I haven't seen the paperwork that goes along with it, but that seems like a very uneven, possibly even nightmare result to me.

Workaround could be the LLC, which is obviously a completely different entity?

If you're right, then I would seriously consider forced sale of all of them. Who cares about the Blue Card. I would much rather avoid decades of cross state mess. Buy a new Blue Card.

Not sure what the issue is. Any one contract, such as the AKV 100 point contract, cannot be split into two separate contracts. That is actually a DVC rule.

But one of the owners could take that entire AKL contract, and the method for doing that, in Florida and elsewhere, is to prepare and file with applicable local government agency (the Orange County Comptroller for WDW) a deed under which the two owners transfer the DVC contract interest to one of those owners. It is a fairly simple process for which the costs are the preparation of the necessary documents and payment of fees charged by the county for such filings. Who will keep which contracts can be agreed to as part of the divorce, and then the needed transfer documents can be prepared. If the parties cannot agree on a split, the divorce court is more likely to order that the properties be sold and money from the sale split, rather than order that one party keeps some of the contracts and the other party the rest.

 

[sndral]

The history of DVC chipping away at resale benefits is interesting & can be challenging to untangle when folks are looking to downsize or rearrange their DVC holdings & trying to decide which contracts to keep.
The first removal of access to benefits was removing the ability to book cruises, the concierge collection, adventures by Disney, etc. from folks who purchased resale after March 2011.
In 2016 they took away all member benefits from resale purchased after 4/2016, creating the blue card/white card divide which is now digital Y/ND.
Also in 2016 they set the minimum number of direct points to qualify for member benefits at 25.
Two years later in Feb. 2018, the minimum direct was raised to 75 points.
Resale points purchased after Jan. 19, 2019, were restricted from booking Riviera & all future ‘new’ DVC resorts.
In Sept. 2019 the direct minimum was raised to 100 points.
In October 2020 it was raised to 125 points.
In Dec. 2021 it was raised to 150 points.

 

[DisTravels]

AKL 100 (August 2012, resale) got blue card here
VGF 50 (May 2013, direct)
VGF 75 (December 2016, resale)
AUL 100 (December 2018, resale)
VDH 75 (May 2023, direct) already had blue card, but would've gotten it here anyways
VDH 75 (May 2023, direct)

I bit tangential - why would you prefer to keep resale rather than direct (since you have both)?

Wouldn't DVC-Y only go with the direct purchases?

 

[sndral]

I bit tangential - why would you prefer to keep resale rather than direct (since you have both)?

Wouldn't DVC-Y only go with the direct purchases?

No, any resale contract purchased prior to April 2016 qualifies you for DVC-Y because every time DVC took away a benefit/perk they grandfathered in existing resale owners. I first bought resale in 2012/13(?) & have always been blue card/DVC-Y even though I didn’t buy direct until 2023.
In OP’s case, there are 2 contracts that would let her retain DVC-Y, one resale, the other direct:
8/2012 AKV 100 - because it was a resale purchase before 4/2016
5/2013 VGF 50 - because it was a direct contract before there were a minimum # of direct points required for DVC-Y.
Ironically OP couldn’t keep just one of the recent 2023 direct contracts & retain the DVC-Y status since the current direct point minimum is 150, so if they want to keep their DVC -Y they have to keep the grandfathered 2012 AKV resale, the 2013 grandfathered direct VGF, or keep both direct 2023 VDH contracts (75+75=150.)

 

[Genie+]

Something else to keep in mind-

DVC continues to tighten access to Membership Extras. For example:

TOTWL Wicked Wind Down - you must be staying on eligible points for the date of your reservation. So say you were staying at WDW on your AUL points, you could not book this.

A similar change was recently made to Moonlight Magic. You must be staying on eligible points to get first dibs, which has a MUCH greater chance than needing to wait for open entry which has about a 1% shot..

It’s not a big deal but I think they’ll continue in this direction. 75% of my points are direct and I’ve already gotten locked out of both because it just so happened the nights I wanted were using my resale points. DVD is definitely trying to make a greater distinction between what you can access with direct points over resale.

Depending how much this stuff matters to you, I’d take it into consideration. Think about it this way - The price you get reselling does not change depending on direct benefits (because benefits don’t transfer). But the cost for you to replace does come at a premium for direct. That would make me more inclined to prioritize keeping the direct points. I’d want to avoid a situation where I sold off some of my direct points, then later regretted the limits of benefits on my resale points and had to pay the direct premium again for what we wanted.

I know people say they’re not going to pay thousands extra over resale just for these perks. That’s fine and makes sense when not interested in this stuff. But if you already have it and think it could matter to you over the next decades, then keeping your direct/full use points will likely make a difference.