EU Guidelines for Restarting Cruises

[TestingH2O]

49 pages of guidelines. Spoiler alert: they stand by the evidence that masks help contain the spread of droplets that can carry COVID-19.

https://www.healthygateways.eu/Port...TARTING_CRUISES.pdf?ver=2020-07-01-115942-557

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Spoiler alert: they stand by the evidence that masks help contain the spread of droplets that can carry COVID-19.

As well they should.

 

[Intr3pid]

This is a major step forward. It provides real guidelines for the cruise companies to restart - as opposed to the CDC that just doesn't want to deal with cruising at all at the moment.

We might see more ships getting deployed to Europe in the near term.

 

[ajo]

The information on kids clubs and entertainment is quite interesting (excerpted below). It looks like they are going to have to significantly reduce capacity on ships in order to sail.

7.14. Nursery and play areas for children
It is preferable to operate the outdoor children’s play areas only or maximise their use. If this is not possible, the number of children using the indoor areas should be reduced to levels which help staff maintain physical distancing. The areas should be cleaned and disinfected according to the protocol on board and as required in the European Manual for Hygiene Standards and Communicable Disease Surveillance on Passenger Ships (available here: http://www.shipsan.eu/Home/EuropeanManual.aspx).
The number of children in the outdoor children’s play areas/playgrounds may also be limited at one time. Consideration may be given to cohorting groups of children for the duration of the voyage. The child centre staff should monitor children for any signs or symptoms compatible with COVID-19, and the child exclusion policy should include possible COVID-19 cases. Child activities should be limited to those where physical distancing measures can be adhered to.

7.15. Entertainment venues
Overcrowding should be prevented in these areas (e.g. theatres) to maintain appropriate physical distancing, and the frequency of entertainment events may be increased to reduce numbers. The maximum allowable capacity of venues should be defined so that physical distancing of at least 1.5 metres (or otherwise as per national/local health authority requirements of the home port or the port of call) is maintained.
Alcohol-based hand rub solutions should be made available to passengers at the entrance of entertainment venues, with crew members monitoring compliance of hand hygiene. Additional alcohol-based hand rub solution equipment (e.g. dispensers) may also be provided in entertainment venues. It is recommended that facilities are cleaned and disinfected after each use.

 

[bavaria]

It is important to note that this is not an official communication from the European Commission., and while they do receive funding, they can only make recommendations. Also note that mask wearing is no longer common in much of central Europe, and no longer required in many states/countries, with some exceptions such as public transport.

The content of this document represents the views of the author only and is his/her sole responsibility; it cannot be considered to reflect the views of the European Commission and/or the Consumers, Health, Agriculture and Food Executive Agency (CHAFEA) or any other body of the European Union.

I posted elsewhere that cruising has already returned in some forms around the globe. Cruises have resumed in Ha Long Bay. These are small ships ranging from super budget to high end boutique. The last time we were there I believe that there was six cabins on our ship, but there are certainly many larger ships. Obviously that is the extreme example, and Vietnam has not had any community transmission for about two months (but is also starting to open up) As soon as they do lift restrictions, I'm planning a leisure trip as I usually am in Vietnam yearly.

In Europe, the Rhein, Donau, Douro cruises have restarted already ie early June, with the first departing lower Bavaria one month ago.

While these are not the mega ships ie the first had capacity up to 220 passengers, there is certainly already a precedent for resumption of some parts of the cruise industry. While Americans may not be able to take part, there is certainly demand for the ships not marketed to Americans in Europe, and strong domestic demand in Vietnam (and from Europe, once they open up to us again)

 

[yowcruiser]

The Kids club recommendations are interesting. When looking at the youth club offers with some other cruise lines, I had noticed that some of them have dedicated outdoor areas or tend to use outdoors much more than DCL does. I was on the Wonder last winter and it was the first time that I had noticed a certain amount of supervised activities at the sports deck for people in the Oceaneer Lab/Club...

 

[TestingH2O]

I was on the Wonder last winter and it was the first time that I had noticed a certain amount of supervised activities at the sports deck for people in the Oceaneer Lab/Club...

That’s interesting. I’ve only seen outdoor stuff happen on glacier day in Alaska. I wish there were more outdoor activities.

 

[yowcruiser]

That’s interesting. I’ve only seen outdoor stuff happen on glacier day in Alaska. I wish there were more outdoor activities.

Agreed, and this is one area I WISH the new ships improve upon. The tween and teen clubs have some moving around the ship, but I do get that the group size in the Club/Lab can make it a bit more challenging to manage this, especially as the kids clubs are nowhere near the outside play area. Can't remember which cruise line but the outdoor play area is an extension of the indoor kids club

 

[yowcruiser]

49 pages of guidelines. Spoiler alert: they stand by the evidence that masks help contain the spread of droplets that can carry COVID-19.

https://www.healthygateways.eu/Port...TARTING_CRUISES.pdf?ver=2020-07-01-115942-557

...and not only that but if you look closely at the recommendation, they actually recommend medical grade masks (looks like surgical, not N95), although what they refer to as "community" (ie: cloth) masks are OK for SOME activities. My take on that is that each room is likely going to have some sort of "care kit" with a specific # of face masks and bottles of hand sanitizers

 

[Husker Mike]

I suspect when all is said and done, until we get to some sort of medical treatment (vaccines/theraputics), a restart of cruises will probably require passenger loads to be much less than 50%, with crew being assigned to many of the empty interior rooms to promote distancing when off duty. Because the ships may run at 1/3 to under 1/2 capacity, many of the other concerns with distancing will also be accommodated by default. (Fewer people on board means fewer in the clubs, pools, on deck, etc.)

But if you are looking for "deals" (to encourage people to come back to cruising), fughettaboutdid. Cruise lines need to get existing reservations to cancel/reschedule, not get additional reservations.

And yes, masks will be be a certainty, just like they are becoming mandatory at many places on the mainland.

 

[T & R]

a restart of cruises will probably require passenger loads to be much less than 50%, with crew being assigned to many of the empty interior rooms to promote distancing when off duty. Because the ships may run at 1/3 to under 1/2 capacity, many of the other concerns with distancing will also be accommodated by default. (Fewer people on board means fewer in the clubs, pools, on deck, etc.)

But if you are looking for "deals" (to encourage people to come back to cruising), fughettaboutdid. Cruise lines need to get existing reservations to cancel/reschedule, not get additional reservations.

So you think prices will actually go up in order to make up for the lost revenue of sailing with empty rooms?

 

[bavaria]

Again, this is not anything official. It is simply a recommendation from an independent body which receives funding from the EU commission. The EU commission can propose legislation, but it is the EU parliament and the council who must approve it. The title of the thread is completely misleading as these guidelines did not come from the EU commission, and it seems that a few travel agency websites took this and ran with it probably in the hopes of click revenue and generating business for themselves.

Cruises have already been operating in the EU in the last weeks without any official guidelines, and before this was released.

 

[Joe Brig]

"It is also clear that masks serve symbolic roles." - New England Journal of Medicine.
Asymptomatic transmissions “very rare” - WHO

People can disagree or add clarification with the above, however you cannot disagree with the fact that I will not cruise if masks are required onboard.

 

[Husker Mike]

So you think prices will actually go up in order to make up for the lost revenue of sailing with empty rooms?

Supply/demand will determine the price. I suspect for many cruises, Disney probably already has more reservations than they'll be able to accommodate at this time, thanks to at least six months of cancellations and reschedulings added on top of the customers that booked pre-pandemic. It would be a customer satisfaction nightmare to try and raise prices on people who already have deposits down on cruises. If there are rooms still available on some cruises when they are able to return to operation, demand will determine the rates. But I suspect that Disney will need more people to cancel future cruises than book new ones.

I do believe that this is part of the reason why Disney hasn't released any itineraries since COVID hit. They don't know where and when cruises can resume, nor do they know how many people they can accommodate and how. They know they have to make good on the reservations they currently have, irregardless of whether Disney will turn a profit or not on those sailings. (And even if they lose a little money on cruises at restricted capacity, it'll be better for them financially than having four ships drifting around the Carribbean with zero revenue.)

 

[PrincessShmoo]

"It is also clear that masks serve symbolic roles." - New England Journal of Medicine.
Asymptomatic transmissions “very rare” - WHO

People can disagree or add clarification with the above, however you cannot disagree with the fact that I will not cruise if masks are required onboard.

As is your right. But there are others who think that wearing a mask is not that big a deal, and will cruise.

From the CDC:

• Cloth face coverings may help prevent people who have COVID-19 from spreading the virus to others.
• Cloth face coverings are most likely to reduce the spread of COVID-19 when they are widely used by people in public settings.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/201...ov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover.html

 

[T & R]

Supply/demand will determine the price. I suspect for many cruises, Disney probably already has more reservations than they'll be able to accommodate at this time, thanks to at least six months of cancellations and reschedulings added on top of the customers that booked pre-pandemic. It would be a customer satisfaction nightmare to try and raise prices on people who already have deposits down on cruises. If there are rooms still available on some cruises when they are able to return to operation, demand will determine the rates. But I suspect that Disney will need more people to cancel future cruises than book new ones.

I do believe that this is part of the reason why Disney hasn't released any itineraries since COVID hit. They don't know where and when cruises can resume, nor do they know how many people they can accommodate and how. They know they have to make good on the reservations they currently have, irregardless of whether Disney will turn a profit or not on those sailings. (And even if they lose a little money on cruises at restricted capacity, it'll be better for them financially than having four ships drifting around the Carribbean with zero revenue.)

I was curious about this. If there is a reduced capacity requirement when they do resume cruising, how will they determine which existing reservations to cancel to get down to the capacity limit? Another reason why I am glad we're concierge. If they do need to "thin the heard", it wouldn't make sense to cancel your reservations that paid the highest price.

Also, as far as releasing the rest of the itineraries for 2021, at some point hey have to because of all the FCC's they are giving out. It's getting to the point where there is nothing left to re-book to. As of now they have less than a year worth of bookable cruises on their website 10/04/20 to 09/27/21. I've already noticed that concierge and deluxe veranda rooms are not available on many of the cruises I've looked at. Everybody's taking these FCC's and upgrading.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

how will they determine which existing reservations to cancel to get down to the capacity limit?

Like other cruise lines who need to reduce passenger load, they'll probably make an offer to those holding reservations to move to another cruise.

 

[T & R]

• Cloth face coverings may help prevent people who have COVID-19 from spreading the virus to others.
• Cloth face coverings are most likely to reduce the spread of COVID-19 when they are widely used by people in public settings.

If this is true then why do they use words like "may help" or "most likely to reduce"? Why don't they just say it does help or does reduce? When they use those kinds of terms to describe something it comes across as unsure and sounds like they do not know and they're just floating an opinion. Kinda reduces their credibility.

 

[ofcabbagesandkings]

They would have to reduce capacity and guarantee access to the kids clubs for me to consider cruising again. I've said it before, but I'm not paying DCL prices to deal with the "maybe you'll get in" nonsense they pull at Aulani for the kids club. I think they should have more kids activities outdoors on the sports deck, though. In the clubs my kid spent almost all the time on screens, unless a character came by to do a craft or activity. He really enjoyed those activities though, and I could see them doing fun ones on deck.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

If this is true then why do they use words like "may help" or "most likely to reduce"? Why don't they just say it does help or does reduce? When they use those kinds of terms to describe something it comes across as unsure and sounds like they do not know and they're just floating an opinion. Kinda reduces their credibility.

Because that's how doctors talk. I have yet to have a doctor that says definitively "this medication/treatment will cure you." It's always "we can give XXX medication a try, and see how that goes."