Harvey Weinstein

[NYCgrrl]

I'm a little more peeved with his "victims" that decided to stay silent and further their careers as well as take pay outs instead of coming forward. He could have been stopped a long time ago. As a victim of sexual assault myself this hurts me most. Yes I'm glad the scumbag was finally revealed, but for these women to further their careers instead of report him? Lets just say I won't be watching any more of their films. These were all very strong women. Now I just know what to feel about them. I just don't understand. I came forward. It wasn't that hard. My attacker pissed me off when he did it. My only thought was to make him pay so he doesn't do what he did to me to anyone else. I guess thats not how it works with Hollywood.

I understand how you feel but not all survivors go through the same thought process.
Some, allow themselves to be victimised further by blaming themselves and replaying mentally every moment of the event.
Some have a driving force within them ( to eat and pay bills doing what they love) and assume that this is part of price they have to pay.
Most were quite young from other parts of the world and regions and some thought this was a norm in a world they didn't know.
Some allowed their anger to implode their careers and personal relationships.

I can't blame the victims in this case or shun their work because they are not like me. It merely validates the viciousness and power of the sexual predators of the world through many career paths.

 

[Cogswel_Cogs]

Why is anybody in the "entertainment" industry surprised by this? Do they suddenly not remember the "casting couch?"

I think they are more surprised that somany people knew and noting was done. With as many people who seemed to know as a community something could have been done. That the only thing that was done was a few jokes in poor taste to the victims.

 

[cabanafrau]

I'm a little more peeved with his "victims" that decided to stay silent and further their careers as well as take pay outs instead of coming forward. He could have been stopped a long time ago. As a victim of sexual assault myself this hurts me most. Yes I'm glad the scumbag was finally revealed, but for these women to further their careers instead of report him? Lets just say I won't be watching any more of their films. These were all very strong women. Now I just know what to feel about them. I just don't understand. I came forward. It wasn't that hard. My attacker pissed me off when he did it. My only thought was to make him pay so he doesn't do what he did to me to anyone else. I guess thats not how it works with Hollywood.

With all due respect, the fact that you have been a victim yourself is nowhere near the baseline from which you should judge how other victims should (have) reacted. Every situation is different and you have no idea what burdens other victims may carry. It is a very common reaction for victims to become paralyzed and effectively trapped in stronger moving currents around them. That may well be the circumstance of some of the people you are looking to blame. In some ways this is the same phenomenon as Facebook interpreting others' lives -- you cannot judge their insides by their outsides, nor should you compare them to yours.

 

[Hikergirl]

Are we seriously going to refer to some of these women as "survivors"?
What a disgrace to real survivors of actual real sexual abuse. You know the people's whose lives who have spent years in therapy, or worse, who had their lives ruined because of what was done to them.
The women you call survivors entered a field of work where this type of thing was known, the casting couch has been around since the beginning of the entertainment industry. These women continued to stay in that industry, and industry where sex sells, after being victimized because they wanted fame and fortune. They knew what was going on, and let countless other women be victimized by HW. They are not survivors they are enablers, hypocrites and lets remember they are actresses so they can act the part of victim now that they have their fame and fortune.
Survivors they are not.

I can't believe I even came back to this thread

 

[Cogswel_Cogs]

I'm sorry but abuse existed heavily in almost every industry years ago(remember Madmen was that a Miramax series?). Common decency and other things has tried to abolish it in most. Is there some kind of grandfather clause that this industry has that I do not understand? THis is not some low seeded unregulated industry. I mean in the major film industry, I know there is anothe one. Why did this industry get the okay not to advance as a society.

 

[NYCgrrl]

Abuse exists in every industry out there today. It didn't just disappear because the courts ruled sexual harassment a form of discrimination.
Sports, politics, entertainment, schools, steel mills, Silicone Valley, houses of worship....did I miss anybody? A rhetorical question because of course I did.
All the cornerstones of society neatly in place and that is where abusers thrive.

 

[declansdad]

Are we seriously going to refer to some of these women as "survivors"?
What a disgrace to real survivors of actual real sexual abuse. You know the people's whose lives who have spent years in therapy, or worse, who had their lives ruined because of what was done to them.
The women you call survivors entered a field of work where this type of thing was known, the casting couch has been around since the beginning of the entertainment industry. These women continued to stay in that industry, and industry where sex sells, after being victimized because they wanted fame and fortune. They knew what was going on, and let countless other women be victimized by HW. They are not survivors they are enablers, hypocrites and lets remember they are actresses so they can act the part of victim now that they have their fame and fortune.
Survivors they are not.

I can't believe I even came back to this thread

WOW!

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Abuse exists in every industry out there today. It didn't just disappear because the courts ruled sexual harassment a form of discrimination.
Sports, politics, entertainment, schools, steel mills, Silicone Valley, houses of worship....did I miss anybody? A rhetorical question because of course I did.
All the cornerstones of society neatly in place and that is where abusers thrive.

While I don't disagree, I think the issue is more prevalent in some industries than others. And I believe entertainment to be one of the worst industries for this kind of abuse.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

While I don't disagree, I think the issue is more prevalent in some industries than others. And I believe entertainment to be one of the worst industries for this kind of abuse.

Or "brainwashing". HW is this "mecca" in which starlets run to be in pictures and will do whatever it takes.

Why? Because some movie and TV shows are about running to HW to make it big and do whatever it takes.

This is an old, outdated "Mad Men" club attitude. Women in HW are powerful. Not sure how much longer payoffs with NDA's are viable here.

We will see. If you think about it, history is being made in a big way here. Interesting to see whose side people take and why.

 

[NYCgrrl]

While I don't disagree, I think the issue is more prevalent in some industries than others. And I believe entertainment to be one of the worst industries for this kind of abuse.

Agreed and probably by dint of it's reputation, history and place in society.

 

[NYCgrrl]

Or "brainwashing". HW is this "mecca" in which starlets run to be in pictures and will do whatever it takes.

Why? Because some movie and TV shows are about running to HW to make it big and do whatever it takes.

This is an old, outdated "Mad Men" club attitude. Women in HW are powerful. Not sure how much longer payoffs with NDA's are viable here.

We will see. If you think about it, history is being made in a big way here. Interesting to see whose side people take and why.

We are certainly creatures of our society no matter how far some of us run to get away from it.
The "Mad Men" analogy is spot on for my sight although I've no idea if it's a Miramax production. It showed an unvarnished view of life for some in the 50's and early 60's w/o a whiff of the "Donna Reed Show/"Leave it to Beaver""ethos.

I do think history is being made and hope all learn the lessons of it. Some wont but a "grrl" can hope w/o thinking pigs can fly.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Are we seriously going to refer to some of these women as "survivors"?
What a disgrace to real survivors of actual real sexual abuse. You know the people's whose lives who have spent years in therapy, or worse, who had their lives ruined because of what was done to them.
The women you call survivors entered a field of work where this type of thing was known, the casting couch has been around since the beginning of the entertainment industry. These women continued to stay in that industry, and industry where sex sells, after being victimized because they wanted fame and fortune. They knew what was going on, and let countless other women be victimized by HW. They are not survivors they are enablers, hypocrites and lets remember they are actresses so they can act the part of victim now that they have their fame and fortune.
Survivors they are not.

I can't believe I even came back to this thread

I think you are being unfair to the people who were victims of Weinstein. It's more difficult to be the one who speaks out and fights for what is right when the person is part of your circle, whether that be professionally or personally. Many times the person who was subjected to the behavior is the one ostracized because they don't just let it go or speak out against it. Most in that circle just want to ignore it because it upsets the status quo. When you're the one that speaks out and doesn't just let it go, you're the one causing an issue by upsetting the balance.

 

[NotUrsula]

Just FYI, Mad Men was produced by LionsGate, and the show runner was Matthew Weiner (who also ran HBO's The Sopranos)

Weiner's new Amazon series, The Romanoffs, was to have been co-produced by Amazon and the Weinstein Company, but Amazon just killed the partnership and will take on a sole production role Amazon is also dealing with a sexual harassment scandal; 4 days ago the company suspended the head of Amazon Studios, Roy Price, after allegations against him by the executive producer of Man in the High Castle, Isa Hackett. (Price has since resigned.)

Also, FWIW, remember that workplace harassment remained very common long after the end of the Mad Men era. Nine to Five was made in 1980, when I can attest that nasty innuendo was still very much par for the course in many workplaces.

 

[okeydokey]

WOW!

My thoughts exactly. Pretty despicable attitude by that poster, but that attitude is what keeps survivors from speaking out. It's sad.

 

[dish rag]

My thoughts exactly. Pretty despicable attitude by that poster, but that attitude is what keeps survivors from speaking out. It's sad.

That poster has a point. Many of these people knew exactly what they were getting into. Some were victims some not. Many sold thier soul to the devil for fame and fortune. And if they wouldn't there are a whole long line that would, and still will.

 

[cabanafrau]

That poster has a point. Many of these people knew exactly what they were getting into. Some were victims some not. Many sold thier soul to the devil for fame and fortune. And if they wouldn't there are a whole long line that would, and still will.

It's certainly easy in the current klieg lit atmosphere to say -- well if they had spoken up . . . (Not to mention we're all safely shielded by our keyboards and screens.)

Consider the fact that some of the incidents being reported happened in a matter of moments, with multiple accounts of some type of accosting met with some type of negative resistance - which was immediately followed by some type of blustering response, often threatening in nature, and sometimes included a physical ushering out of the audience with the "great man" (who also seems to be a pretty big physical presence to me, particularly in comparison to the generally diminutive stature of most actresses in Hollywood.) You're accosted, you repel his advances, you're no longer in the same physical space with him -- and are quite likely shaking, sickened, scared and have difficulty forming coherent thoughts. Who do you tell? Your agent? Yeah, sure, an agent is gonna cross the great and powerful. The media? You're likely to wind up roadkill -- assumed to be golddigging and potentially sued. Your BFF? If you're lucky he's got some juice in Hollywood like Brad Pitt and is willing to threaten the pig, or it's Seth McFarlane -- who was able to make a baldfaced "joke" at one of Hollywood's most watched annual announcements and nobody even batted an eyelash.

Courtney Love gave out warnings for over a decade -- crickets. A male actor spoke up about his experiences and those of his colleagues as child actors on national television -- and was chided for potentially damaging an entire industry.

Oh, absolutely, let's stone those actresses who survived in silence -- they're certainly the problem in this cesspool.

 

[NYCgrrl]

That poster has a point. Many of these people knew exactly what they were getting into. Some were victims some not. Many sold thier soul to the devil for fame and fortune. And if they wouldn't there are a whole long line that would, and still will.

That point could also be made for any number of careers and jobs: coal miners, astronauts, nuclear plant workers, first responders, members of the armed forces, Triangle Shirt Factory workers. You get a paycheck and alllll the inherent advantages AND disadvantages of that piece of paper come to the fore. It's your choice to decide whether the risk is worth it and that choice does not necessarily make you a ....fill in the blank with degrading adjectives.

Interestingly enough we as a society rarely blame any of those other people when they are injured or die on the job. Why actors?

 

[cabanafrau]

I think you are being unfair to the people who were victims of Weinstein. It's more difficult to be the one who speaks out and fights for what is right when the person is part of your circle, whether that be professionally or personally. Many times the person who was subjected to the behavior is the one ostracized because they don't just let it go or speak out against it. Most in that circle just want to ignore it because it upsets the status quo. When you're the one that speaks out and doesn't just let it go, you're the one causing an issue by upsetting the balance.

Interestingly you just outlined the very same dynamic that causes families most often to close ranks against a member of the family accusing another member of the family of sexual abuse or molestation.

Seeing what it takes for a rape victim to proceed with a criminal case against an attacker, I am astounded we see cases prosecuted at all. The accused is afforded the law as a shield, while every blemish and misstep in the accuser's life is brought out under a microscope for everyone to see and hear. I watched a young teen girl speak out against her stepfather and be faced with a parade of her teachers being brought in to comment as to whether she did all of her homework, and what excuses she gave if she did not. Then her mother attempted to bring in records from a counselor she forced her daughter to see -- a counselor who was a relative of the stepfather's.

 

[Cogswel_Cogs]

Abuse exists in every industry out there today. It didn't just disappear because the courts ruled sexual harassment a form of discrimination.
Sports, politics, entertainment, schools, steel mills, Silicone Valley, houses of worship....did I miss anybody? A rhetorical question because of course I did.
All the cornerstones of society neatly in place and that is where abusers thrive.

I agree its just it seems like some were almost saying its expected in the industry and woman should have known bettter. I realize it's harder to report then in othe industries but maybe something more than making jokes about it might have saved a lot of suffering.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

That point could also be made for any number of careers and jobs: coal miners, astronauts, nuclear plant workers, first responders, members of the armed forces, Triangle Shirt Factory workers. You get a paycheck and alllll the inherent advantages AND disadvantages of that piece of paper come to the fore. It's your choice to decide whether the risk is worth it and that choice does not necessarily make you a ....fill in the blank with degrading adjectives. Interestingly enough we as a society rarely blame any of those other people when they are injured or die on the job. Why actors?

They knew what they were getting into is just a way for those that don't care (or in some cases hate) to turn a blind eye and dismiss people. And the reality is everyone in any walk of life, and it happens in all walks of life, knows they might at any time be subject to sexual harassment. It doesn't mean they know they're getting into being sexually harassed And it doesn't mean they approve of it and were asking for it. But in some circles, it's cool to hate on Hollywood.