Land Border Opening?

pigletto said:
Why does one preclude the other ? We are in the land border opening thread so people are discussing the reopening of the land border . I think we would all like to see our own country safe and our kids go back to school safely . I don’t get why we can’t discuss both .
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Agree. And let's not forget there are some places where schools have been open the entire time since September. They haven't closed once in BC. Yes we have options (blended learning, virtual 100%) but the majority of us here have had our kids in school full time since September.
 
von Monster said:
Agree on both points. I see no reason in a liberal democracy that the government's cannot provide a staged plan with whatever internal benchmarks they're using to decide. It honestly not that hard. If it's vaccine passports, cool just say so. 75% vaccinated? Ok - say so.
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I think the criteria will be much more complex than just the % of people vaccinated. It'll be a combination of many variables, something along the lines of:

X% of people vaccinated
below Y # of people in the Hospitals and a decrease in that number for a period of time
below Z # of people in ICU and a decrease in that number for a period of time
below Q% testing positivity rate and a decrease in that number for a period of time
a Reproductive # below 1 for a particular period of time

And probably many more key metrics.

I honestly don't think they know/have nailed down what those numbers are, and the numbers will be vastly different from one province to the next but you can't open the borders until all provinces are at whatever the many threshholds will be because you can't really have different border restrictions on a per province basis.

All that being said I don't see any reason why they shouldn't have thresholds sorted out by now and why they couldn't share those to give us all a reliable estimate to what the goal lines are.
 
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TommyJK said:
I think the criteria will be much more complex than just the % of people vaccinated. It'll be a combination of many variables, something along the lines of:

X% of people vaccinated
below Y # of people in the Hospitals and a decrease in that number for a period of time
below Z # of people in ICU and a decrease in that number for a period of time
below Q% testing positivity rate and a decrease in that number for a period of time
a Reproductive # below 1 for a particular period of time

And probably many more key metrics.

I honestly don't think they know/have nailed down what those numbers are, and the numbers will be vastly different from one province to the next but you can't open the borders until all provinces are at whatever the many threshholds will be because you can't really have different border restrictions on a per province basis.

All that being said I don't see any reason why they shouldn't have thresholds sorted out by now and why they couldn't share those to give us all a reliable estimate to what the goal lines are.
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The federal government decides the border opening and it has nothing to do with the provinces. If they do need to have all that in place for the border to open then it's time for them to know the numbers. We as tax paying citizens deserve to know the plan at this point.
 
ellbell said:
The federal government decides the border opening and it has nothing to do with the provinces. If they do need to have all that in place for the border to open then it's time for them to know the numbers. We as tax paying citizens deserve to know the plan at this point.
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You're right in that the provinces technically do not make a determination on the border re-opening, but to say it has nothing to do with the provinces wouldn't be accurate IMO. What is going on in ALL of the provinces collectively will dictate if the feds decide to go ahead and allow the border to re-open. If nearly all of the provinces are doing incredibly well on all of their various numbers but one or two provinces are still struggling with spread, hospitalizations/ICU etc. they aren't going to open the border.

So basically ALL provinces will have to be in the "clear" before the Feds decide to allow the border to re-open. And what "clear" means is a factor/combination of all of the things I mentioned.

Now my guess is that either a) no one internally on the government side has those metrics nailed down/agreed upon what those should be (the science advisors probably have one set of criteria in mind while the politicians have another) or b) they do have some numbers internally but don't want to share them for fear of "being wrong" in hindsight and then getting blamed if something goes wrong.

But I agree. We as citizens by now should indeed have been given SOME form of goals shared so we know what we're working towards.
 
pigletto said:
My husband works in municipal government and we debate this point all the time . I can see both sides . I don’t think you give dates and absolutes because it ruins your credibility when not achieved . I also strongly believe these are our elected representatives and “when I say so “ should be reserved for parents of toddlers . I, and every other tax paying , law abiding citizen deserve to know the benchmarks that need to be reached in order move forward . Why the secrecy? I’m not asking for it to be opened NOW, I’m asking to know what the plan is . I don’t think that’s unreasonable.
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YES!!!!!
 
I commented on the Covid and the Rest of us Thread to the article you posted,but thought I'd put my response here as well - assuming he means the 75/20 that Tam was speaking to last week? I've been following the Covid tracker quite closely and we average about 1% a day, so if we are just over 46% today then 75% is only about a month away.....BUT, we also need to get those second doses up!
 
bcwife76 said:
I commented on the Covid and the Rest of us Thread to the article you posted,but thought I'd put my response here as well - assuming he means the 75/20 that Tam was speaking to last week? I've been following the Covid tracker quite closely and we average about 1% a day, so if we are just over 46% today then 75% is only about a month away.....BUT, we also need to get those second doses up!
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The 75/20 that Tam & PHAC have been talking about is % of eligible population (which was 16+, now 12+), not total, so we're actually even closer!

We were at 52.4% of 12+ yesterday, 75% could be reached by end of May, and 75/20 could by June 20th.

E1oIEE4XIAETtvL
 
Mikey15 said:
The closure has been extended 30 days at a time, hitting 420 days as of May 21st (current expiry). I'm thinking we're going to see another 30 days extension announced imminently (maybe with fully-vaccinated exceptions) and then by the time that expires June 20th, there won't be a need to extend the closure again. By June 20th every Canadian who wants a shot will have had access to at least their 1st one, and a good chunk will have had their 2nd.
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That's exactly where I think we will be at. I am hoping for open borders by June 21st.
pigletto said:
Why does one preclude the other ? We are in the land border opening thread so people are discussing the reopening of the land border . I think we would all like to see our own country safe and our kids go back to school safely . I don’t get why we can’t discuss both .
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I think we will be in a very different place by early to mid summer. I am feeling optimistic about the end of quarantine, open borders and in person school this fall. :)
 
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If I had to guess I think it’s looking more and more likely that the border will open up to non essential travellers in the fall . I would say September or October maybe. Totally just guessing here but I think we will have that 75% by then . I’m cautiously optimistic about a January 22 trip.
 
ilovetotravel1977 said:
Just found this article:

75% of Canadians need to be vaccinated before Canada-U.S. border reopens: Trudeau


https://news.paxeditions.com/news/b...e-vaccinated-canada-us-border-reopens-trudeau
Now, does that mean one dose or two doses? When I hear "vaccinated", I think of two doses.
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Trudeau has mentioned previously that it's one dose.
pigletto said:
If I had to guess I think it’s looking more and more likely that the border will open up to non essential travellers in the fall . I would say September or October maybe. Totally just guessing here but I think we will have that 75% by then . I’m cautiously optimistic about a January 22 trip.
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I think we will be 75% vaccinated well before september or october. We are doing about a percentage a day so even if it needs to be 2 doses at this point that can be achieved by the end of July.
 
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