OFFICIAL Avengers: Endgame Discussion Thread (will contain spoilers once the movie is out)

[BrianL]

I was referring to Edwin Jarvis in my original post about it.

That makes him like the only character from one of the TV shows to make a film appearance. I'm a little disappointed that they didn't have Quake or some of the others show up in the big fight at the end. I mean, they wouldn't have had to focus on them too much, but a quick nod would have worked. I kinda didn't like how all the ships were generic - at least I didn't recognize them. Who showed up to help? Might have been nice to see the remnants of the Nova Corps or something we could connect to. I mean maybe it was there - there was so much going on!

I think, after letting it sink in, the third act disappointed me a tad. For the first two hours I was in love with the movie in some kind of special way, but the end devolved it a bit, which I think keeps it from being the best of the franchise (still really, really good mind you, but it just didn't cross the finish line ahead of some of my other favorites).

 

[ChrisFL]

I think, after letting it sink in, the third act disappointed me a tad. For the first two hours I was in love with the movie in some kind of special way, but the end devolved it a bit, which I think keeps it from being the best of the franchise (still really, really good mind you, but it just didn't cross the finish line ahead of some of my other favorites).

It's funny as I've heard a few people saying the opposite. I thought they jumped into the time machine idea a bit too quickly.

Also, one thing that kinda is typical with the MCU films is that you never see average citizen moments much, like the effect things have on them. I thought we'd see more about the aftermath of the snap that didn't involve the heroes, but oh well.

 

[AngiTN]

DH questioned how the getting of the soul stone worked, with the "giving of the one you love the most" thing
He didn't see how that rule was applied and I thought it made worked. My theory was that their sacrifice, either one of them's, gave up something which they loved by their no longer being around.
Hawkeye gave up himself, which in turn gave up his family, which is what he loved the most.
Black Widow was basically the same thing, but she gave up The Avenger family.
I mean, I know they had a real connection as a pair but I never took it as more than that, extremely close friends but not what either one "loved the most"

Oh, and was Colson at Tony's funeral? Some of the faces flashed by awfully fast and I may have missed it

 

[AngiTN]

That makes him like the only character from one of the TV shows to make a film appearance. I'm a little disappointed that they didn't have Quake or some of the others show up in the big fight at the end. I mean, they wouldn't have had to focus on them too much, but a quick nod would have worked. I kinda didn't like how all the ships were generic - at least I didn't recognize them. Who showed up to help? Might have been nice to see the remnants of the Nova Corps or something we could connect to. I mean maybe it was there - there was so much going on!

I think, after letting it sink in, the third act disappointed me a tad. For the first two hours I was in love with the movie in some kind of special way, but the end devolved it a bit, which I think keeps it from being the best of the franchise (still really, really good mind you, but it just didn't cross the finish line ahead of some of my other favorites).

Agent Carter is a big one

 

[leiaorgana]

That makes him like the only character from one of the TV shows to make a film appearance. I'm a little disappointed that they didn't have Quake or some of the others show up in the big fight at the end.

I would absolutely LOVED to have seen Daisy or any of the Agents Of Shield gang have a quick cameo but the film was jam packed with surprise cameos as it was. I don’t really know where the would have fit in. It would have been nice to see Coulson again too but he was dead by the time they went back to the battle of ny and he’s gone again now so yeah.....

 

[BrianL]

Agent Carter is a big one

But Agent Carter didn't originate on a TV show. That's what I meant. The bit characters from Hydra like Von Strucker and Dr. List (?) appeared in the show first but were so minor.

 

[OhioStateBuckeye]

DH said could it be Peter/Spiderman working on something but I don't think so
But, what about the Kid from #3?

If anything, it could be Tony's daughter if we time jump a bit into the future. I imagine her as another Shuri.

I only noticed Jarvis - but that's why this movie demands multiple viewings. It's easy to miss stuff.

I was referring to Edwin Jarvis in my original post about it.

I very well might be confusing names. It's been a while since I watched. The guy with a cane who had a crush on her? I thought he was in her office with her when cap saw her.

That makes him like the only character from one of the TV shows to make a film appearance. I'm a little disappointed that they didn't have Quake or some of the others show up in the big fight at the end. I mean, they wouldn't have had to focus on them too much, but a quick nod would have worked. I kinda didn't like how all the ships were generic - at least I didn't recognize them. Who showed up to help? Might have been nice to see the remnants of the Nova Corps or something we could connect to. I mean maybe it was there - there was so much going on!

I think, after letting it sink in, the third act disappointed me a tad. For the first two hours I was in love with the movie in some kind of special way, but the end devolved it a bit, which I think keeps it from being the best of the franchise (still really, really good mind you, but it just didn't cross the finish line ahead of some of my other favorites).

I thought the ravagers might show up, but I guess not.

DH questioned how the getting of the soul stone worked, with the "giving of the one you love the most" thing
He didn't see how that rule was applied and I thought it made worked. My theory was that their sacrifice, either one of them's, gave up something which they loved by their no longer being around.
Hawkeye gave up himself, which in turn gave up his family, which is what he loved the most.
Black Widow was basically the same thing, but she gave up The Avenger family.
I mean, I know they had a real connection as a pair but I never took it as more than that, extremely close friends but not what either one "loved the most"

Oh, and was Colson at Tony's funeral? Some of the faces flashed by awfully fast and I may have missed it

I thought they were what each other loved the most, at the time. Hawkeyes family was gone. It doesn't have to be a romantic love, Thanos killed gamora and she was his daughter.

Isn't colson dead at this time? I noticed Maria hill never showed up, not even with fury at the funeral.

 

[saskdw]

I only noticed Jarvis - but that's why this movie demands multiple viewings. It's easy to miss stuff.

Yep, going again Saturday and looking forward to picking up some things I missed while I was overcome with emotion.

 

[BrianL]

I very well might be confusing names. It's been a while since I watched. The guy with a cane who had a crush on her? I thought he was in her office with her when cap saw her.

The guy with the cane is Souza. I didn't catch him in her office. Maybe that was who she was talking to. If so, that's awesome! If he had a cane, then it was very likely supposed to be him. Edwin Jarvis was Howard's butler and the template for the JARVIS AI that Tony created (since the butler helped raise him). It was cool to see him.

 

[AngiTN]

Isn't colson dead at this time? I noticed Maria hill never showed up, not even with fury at the funeral.

Not if they brought him back after NY battle. Granted, the Marvel movie realm never addressed that timeline/storyline.

ETA - Didn't even think about Hill. I'm going to guess that she was missing because the actress wasn't available for whatever reason. There's no other reason for her not to be there

 

[AngiTN]

I thought they were what each other loved the most, at the time. Hawkeyes family was gone. It doesn't have to be a romantic love, Thanos killed gamora and she was his daughter.

I know that it doesn't have to be romantic but does have to be "loved the most"
and I do not buy that in that case each of those was what the other loved the most. Even if it wasn't romantic love
I can buy the self-sacrifice as an act to give up what they love but not that they loved each other above all else.
But I can also accept if I'm the only one to see it that way

 

[AngiTN]

But Agent Carter didn't originate on a TV show. That's what I meant. The bit characters from Hydra like Von Strucker and Dr. List (?) appeared in the show first but were so minor.

Hmmm... for some reason I thought Jarvis did show up in one or two of the flashback scenes with Tony's dad but maybe not. I may simply be recalling scenes from Agent Carter
Been a while since I watched some of those older movies. We are unlike so many and didn't rewatch the whole lot. Just been too busy this month to dedicate to doing that

 

[leiaorgana]

DH questioned how the getting of the soul stone worked, with the "giving of the one you love the most" thing
He didn't see how that rule was applied and I thought it made worked. My theory was that their sacrifice, either one of them's, gave up something which they loved by their no longer being around.
Hawkeye gave up himself, which in turn gave up his family, which is what he loved the most.
Black Widow was basically the same thing, but she gave up The Avenger family.
I mean, I know they had a real connection as a pair but I never took it as more than that, extremely close friends but not what either one "loved the most"

Nat and Clint clearly have a philia, platonic love for each other (although Clintasha shippers will disagree) and both are very important to each other and that’s why it worked. Clint was the one to bring Natasha into shield in the first place and they’ve obviously been through a lot of stuff together (just tell us what happened in Budapest okay!).

As soon as they said they were going for the Soul Stone I was like “well Nat’s dead then”. I just couldn’t see her letting Clint sacrifice himself when he has a family who she cares very deeply about as well. This was her redemption for all of the “red in her ledger” in her eyes and she did it for the love of her new family. I’m just annoyed that it was 2 female characters that had to die for Soul Stone tbh

 

[AngiTN]

If anything, it could be Tony's daughter if we time jump a bit into the future. I imagine her as another Shuri.

Morgan was another thought that I had but she was so young in the movie. Seems unlikely they'd jump THAT far ahead in time. None of the others would be young enough to be active if they jump to her being at least in HS age (like Peter's age)

 

[saskdw]

DH questioned how the getting of the soul stone worked, with the "giving of the one you love the most" thing
He didn't see how that rule was applied and I thought it made worked. My theory was that their sacrifice, either one of them's, gave up something which they loved by their no longer being around.
Hawkeye gave up himself, which in turn gave up his family, which is what he loved the most.
Black Widow was basically the same thing, but she gave up The Avenger family.
I mean, I know they had a real connection as a pair but I never took it as more than that, extremely close friends but not what either one "loved the most"

Oh, and was Colson at Tony's funeral? Some of the faces flashed by awfully fast and I may have missed it

He loved her like a sister. They were best friends and had been through a lot together. Unfortunately none of the movies really got into that, but it's known from the comics.

The part I didn't get was how Hawkeye who is a normal mortal could hold the stone without being consumed by it? They kind of dropped the ball there. he should have had a special container for it or it should have been explained that when you obtain the soul stone through this manor it enables you to wield it.

 

[TangledHairDon'tCare]

I thought I saw Maria Hill at the funeral to the right of the porch, maybe behind the kid from IM3?

 

[AngiTN]

Nat and Clint clearly have a philia, platonic love for each other (although Clintasha shippers will disagree) and both are very important to each other and that’s why it worked. Clint was the one to bring Natasha into shield in the first place and they’ve obviously been through a lot of stuff together (just tell us what happened in Budapest okay!).

As soon as they said they were going for the Soul Stone I was like “well Nat’s dead then”. I just couldn’t see her letting Clint sacrifice himself when he has a family who she cares very deeply about as well. This was her redemption for all of the “red in her ledger” in her eyes and she did it for the love of her new family. I’m just annoyed that it was 2 female characters that had to die for Soul Stone tbh

I keep waiting on Black Widow's story. I guess we have gotten all we are getting though

And yeah, your take is exactly what I see it as. Even though I didn't express it as well.
But that their giving up themselves was their sacrifice of what was loved the most, in a 2nd hand way, so to speak. Not that they loved themselves the most but they gave up being with those they loved the most. Oh, it's too complex to explain well.....

 

[AngiTN]

I thought I saw Maria Hill at the funeral to the right of the porch, maybe behind the kid from IM3?

There were 2 agents standing there and I didn't catch their images long enough to place who exactly they were. It's possible she was one of them. It was really fast.

I also told DH that it looked to me, and I could be wrong, that they didn't film that scene as a whole, that it was regenerated via a computer, placing them in there from an individual take.

 

[leiaorgana]

I keep waiting on Black Widow's story. I guess we have gotten all we are getting though

Her prequel is supposed to be coming out next year, I think. Last I heard Rachel Weisz had been cast in it, which is amazing because she’s a phenomenal actor.

 

[ZellyB]

What did everyone think of the sort of female empowerment moment?

Oh, oh, oh!!!!!!
My favorite moment of the entire movie, the all-female battle line up
Anyone else get chills from the female power moment, even short-lived as it was. I want a shirt with that image on it
Though DH hated they included Pepper

I didn't really love that moment. I like the idea, but they cut away from it so fast. I know there was a lot going on, but it was more of a pose and move on thing. I wish there had been more.

I'm really only a casual Marvel fan. I've seen nearly all the movies but not really steeped in the cannon or anything. I'll even confess I didn't see IW - even though I know what happened in it.

That said, I went last night and took my two 15 year old daughters and I loved this moment. It wasn't that many years ago you would have NEVER seen something like that on screen in this type of movie. It was amazing and I was super happy to see it unfold with my two girls on either side of me. I do wish they'd lingered with it a bit more, but it was still a great moment and gave me chills.