Otto Warmbier

[Adkeesee]

I've been following very closely.

He took a poster with Kim jongs picture on it off the wall and placed it on the ground. He didn't steal it. Messing with anybthing with Kim Jong Un's image on it is a serious crime in NK. Not only that the video is extremely blurry and can't make anybody out.

He was used against the US govt as retribution when the US issued sanctions against their nuclear program.

Gd only knows what they did to him to cause this. In a country where the leader literally fed his alive uncle to the dogs to be killed.

Exactly. We don't even know that it was him. This whole situation is just terribly sad. I am glad his parents were able to see him one last time (even if he wasn't able to communicate) and they have his body to bury.

 

[adisneyaunt]

Horrifying Beyond Words. Thoughts and prayers to family and friends.
I'm thankful he was finally brought home to have his last breath here in America with his family near him. This never should have happened.

I've followed since the beginning, having had a young adult in SK ( which was scary enough in my book)
Many sleepless nights...despite seceral serious discussions pre Adventure, about staying away from the border, avoiding protest areas, respecting the different culture/norms while encouraging him to embrace the entire experience.
Often times youth seem to think they are Invincible.. this young man paid with his life, RIP Otto.

 

[cabanafrau]

When I was traveling in Morocco, I met this guy who had a list of countries "that my mom told me not to go to". He was hitting up things like Venezuela, Iraq, Nigeria, the Congo and Mali, and was VERY proud of that fact. Morocco was an extremely tame destination for him. As I said above, when you are 20 you feel invincible, and pushing the envelope is a point of pride.

I guess we're lucky that either our daughters don't have that particular streak running through them or aren't feeling the financial ability to pull off those types of adventures without our backing, which absolutely isn't happening.

 

[cabanafrau]

I knew when I saw them carrying him off the plane that he likely had brain damage. His legs were dangling and he had foot drop, indicating he hadn't been out of bed in a very long time. Supposedly he was like that since his first days in captivity, which in a small way, I guess, is a bit of a blessing, since he was actually sentenced to 15 years of hard labor for his "crime". I remember reading about it when it first happened and then I haven't seen any more about it until last week. We were talking about it at home. They claimed he had "botulism". I hope they can figure out what really happened. Basketball great Dennis Rodman is friends with the NK leader and he may have had a hand in securing his release.

I assumed he was being allowed to return home to die, which no doubt will be spun to those in NK as their medical system saving him and ours being too inferior to keep him alive. I've heard reports that say he shows no signs of having been beaten into his condition, which makes me wonder what they did to cause his condition and when they did it.

 

[bcla]

My heart goes out to his family. Heartbreaking.

Why anyone would go to North Korea willingly is beyond me. The tour service is still sending Americans on tours in North Korea.

I heard that they stopped tours with US citizens.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

I heard that they stopped tours with US citizens.

I saw on the news this morning they just had a tour a week ago even though they stated they stopped. Maybe it stopped this week?

 

[Hikergirl]

http://money.cnn.com/2017/06/20/news/north-korea-us-tourists-otto-warmbier/index.html

 

[DisneylandDarling]

I'm not sure putting bans on travel over the NK is going to do any good, honestly. People are capable of making their own choices. If they want to risk it all to go to a country that is under such distress, that's really on them. If they want to go bad enough (or they think it's 'exclusive' enough), they're going to find a way - travel bans or not.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I'm not sure putting bans on travel over the NK is going to do any good, honestly. People are capable of making their own choices. If they want to risk it all to go to a country that is under such distress, that's really on them. If they want to go bad enough (or they think it's 'exclusive' enough), they're going to find a way - travel bans or not.

True. If someone wants to go badly enough they still will. My thought is if there's restrictions on Americans going there, it becomes pretty clear that you are on your own if you do go and have a problem.
As I said earlier, people do stupid things all the time but with something like this it becomes an international incident and the stakes can be so high for many.

 

[pryncess527]

I'm not sure putting bans on travel over the NK is going to do any good, honestly. People are capable of making their own choices. If they want to risk it all to go to a country that is under such distress, that's really on them. If they want to go bad enough (or they think it's 'exclusive' enough), they're going to find a way - travel bans or not.

But a ban has the benefit of lowering expectations that the US government can and will do something to save you

 

[Squirlz]

My solution to this situation would involve an animatronic Dennis Rodman and many pounds of C-4 explosive.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I assumed he was being allowed to return home to die, which no doubt will be spun to those in NK as their medical system saving him and ours being too inferior to keep him alive. I've heard reports that say he shows no signs of having been beaten into his condition, which makes me wonder what they did to cause his condition and when they did it.

That wasn't the sense I got. My sense was that something went horribly wrong (probably some kind of beating or torture early on) and they were trying to cover it up by saying he had botulism. I don't think they expected him to die - they were keeping him alive with a feeding tube in his nose. (Another sign this was longstanding. He could've been vented in NK, too, we don't yet know.) I think there was just a lot of international pressure put on them to let him go as of late. My guess is when they got him to the U.S, he fit the criteria for brain death and his parents made the difficult choice to let him go (rather than venting and pegging him). Of course, I could be wrong, but that's what I got. There haven't been a lot of details released yet. I'm sure it's going to be a heartbreaking story once all the pieces are put together. Some day.

 

[Hikergirl]

If this young man's story wasn't a wake-up call to any American considering traveling to NK then a ban won't be either.
I also can't imagine the US really refusing to help a citizen if they did choose to ignore the ban. Sure hold them legally responsible when they get back to the US, but leave them there to be tortured and murdered? I sure hope not.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

That wasn't the sense I got. My sense was that something went horribly wrong (probably some kind of beating or torture early on) and they were trying to cover it up by saying he had botulism. I don't think they expected him to die - they were keeping him alive with a feeding tube in his nose. (Another sign this was longstanding. He could've been vented in NK, we don't yet know.) I think there was just a lot of international pressure put on them to let him go as of late. My guess is when they got him to the U.S, he fit the criteria for brain death and his parents made the difficult choice to let him go (rather than vent and peg him). Of course, I could be wrong, but that's what I got. There haven't been a lot of details released yet. I'm sure it's going to be a heartbreaking story once all the pieces are put together. Some day.

I also think he was brain dead and his parents made the hard decision to let him go. I think NK knew there wasn't much time left so they let the US have him back so he could die here. That way NK can say they kept him alive but we couldn't.

 

[fly girl]

So sad. Senseless. My heart breaks for his family. I'm glad he was brought home so the family could say goodbye. I live in the Cincinnati area so this was big news here. The parents said he had an anguished look in his face when he arrived, but over the few days before he passed his face changed to peaceful. Parents stated they felt Otto knew he was home, and could die comfortably.

Doctors at UC stated it definitely wasn't botulism, and he had no signs of being beaten recently, or in the past. I'm sure they'll get to what caused his brain damage through his autopsy.

The tour company, Pioneer Tours, made a statement today (or yesterday) they'll no longer take US citizens. Thank goodness!

For the life of me I don't understand why anyone would want to go there to begin with.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I also think he was brain dead and his parents made the hard decision to let him go. I think NK knew there wasn't much time left so they let the US have him back so he could die here. That way NK can say they kept him alive but we couldn't.

I think most people will understand we could've, we just chose not to. I'm also just not sure about that angle anyway. They probably freaked out when whatever happened, happened, knowing it was going to eventually be a huge international incident. Someone's head probably literally rolled over whatever caused him to become anoxic.

 

[DisneylandDarling]

True. If someone wants to go badly enough they still will. My thought is if there's restrictions on Americans going there, it becomes pretty clear that you are on your own if you do go and have a problem.
As I said earlier, people do stupid things all the time but with something like this it becomes an international incident and the stakes can be so high for many.

But a ban has the benefit of lowering expectations that the US government can and will do something to save you

I do understand/see that point. However, I look at it as already pretty common knowledge. Every couple weeks the news is talking about the latest nuclear missile test in NK and impacts and stress caused to the United States. Surely the people who are going over there have some knowledge of the news and get updates/read warning from the U.S. travel service. They obviously aren't going over there thinking it's a peaceful country where laws are similar to their homeland. I just expect and hope for a level of personal responsibility from everyone. And I would prefer icy relations with NK not to get icier...

 

[Mizzoufan]

heartbreaking. Im glad he was returned to the states so his family could say goodbye to him.

 

[cabanafrau]

That wasn't the sense I got. My sense was that something went horribly wrong (probably some kind of beating or torture early on) and they were trying to cover it up by saying he had botulism. I don't think they expected him to die - they were keeping him alive with a feeding tube in his nose. (Another sign this was longstanding. He could've been vented in NK, too, we don't yet know.) I think there was just a lot of international pressure put on them to let him go as of late. My guess is when they got him to the U.S, he fit the criteria for brain death and his parents made the difficult choice to let him go (rather than venting and pegging him). Of course, I could be wrong, but that's what I got. There haven't been a lot of details released yet. I'm sure it's going to be a heartbreaking story once all the pieces are put together. Some day.

Oh, I absolutely believe they tortured him and were waiting for the evidence to be less discernible before they released him. I shudder to think what he went through considering some of the stories that surface regarding the fate of those who are labeled enemies of the regime. I absolutely hope his family found some measure of peace in the ability to see their boy again and give him a loving goodbye.

 

[DaisyJ]

I knew when I saw them carrying him off the plane that he likely had brain damage. His legs were dangling and he had foot drop, indicating he hadn't been out of bed in a very long time. Supposedly he was like that since his first days in captivity, which in a small way, I guess, is a bit of a blessing, since he was actually sentenced to 15 years of hard labor for his "crime". I remember reading about it when it first happened and then I haven't seen any more about it until last week. We were talking about it at home. They claimed he had "botulism". I hope they can figure out what really happened. Basketball great Dennis Rodman is friends with the NK leader and he may have had a hand in securing his release.

Rodman had absolutely nothing to do with his release. Joseph Yun is the one that was most involved.