Pit-Bull's...friend or foe?

[luvsJack]

Foe.

I have a friend who owned 2 pit bulls for a very long time, 7 years. They were his babies, he always praised them and how good they are with his children, etc. He was always sharing memes and pit bull feel good stories.

Three weeks ago, he got into a verbal argument with his teenage son. Just normal yelling back and forth about something irresponsible that his son did. One dog began getting agitated, so he put the dog in a bedroom and closed the door (a pull down handle type door).

The dog OPENED THE DOOR and charged my friend, and began attacking him. My friend remained calm, trying to talk the dog down from his frenzied state. The dog continued to attack him. The son ran to the neighbor to alert him, asking for help. The dog attacked my friend for 20 minutes, while the neighbor stood by with a gun, ready to intervene if necessary. At one point, the dog went for my friend's neck, he pushed him off, told his neighbor to shoot, and he did. They called 911, and my friend BEGGED the cops to try and save the dog. The dog bled out. My friend was taken to the hospital in an ambulance, and was badly injured. He needed 68 stitches on his arms and legs. His shoulder was dislocated during the struggle.

My friend was heartbroken at the loss of his dog as well as the fact that his own dog, his baby, had turned on him like that. He still has his other pit.

He was subsequently evicted from his apartment (for housing an animal that was "dangerous to the residents of the community) and lost partial custody of his younger children (who were also home at the time of the attack).

These dogs are monsters, and it is sad that they have been so poorly bred to make them more prone to violence. However, I firmly believe that they are no longer the gentle "nanny dogs" that they were originally used for.

That’s awful!! I feel so bad for your friend! I think it’s awful that they took his kids and I hope his custody is returned.

 

[DLgal]

That’s awful!! I feel so bad for your friend! I think it’s awful that they took his kids and I hope his custody is returned.

Thank you. I hope so too. It was an emergency order until the courts can look at everything and decide how to proceed. He had 50/50 custody with the kids mother before this happened.

 

[tink1970]

why have they been singled out

Currently, pit bulls are the devil. In the 70s, it was German Sheperds, 80s Rotties, etc. Now currently you hear every horror story about pits. I can assure you , any dog will bite but pits are the scapegoat and fallback term right now for bad dog.

They are dangerous animals regardless of how they are raised simply because of their nature, physical characteristics and breeding history.

I respectfully disagree.

I don't really hear news about a person being killed by a lab or a golden or a great dane. Maybe it happens sometime, but overwhelming odds when you hear a story about someone being killed by a dog, that it is a pit or pit mix. When they attack you they mean to kill. That is in their make up, whether it is inbreeding or purposely breeding for the aggressive traits in the lineage. Temperament.

First of all, the AKC does not even recognize the breed "pit bull." This term can encompass several breeds with certain similar characteristics-short hair, broader head, long tail, etc. Most dogs with these characteristics are labeled "pit bulls" and, when DNA testing is done may or more often not, have ancestors who were American Staffordshire Terriers, Staffordshire Terriers, bulldogs (English), bull terriers, boxers, cane corso, etc. But it is so much easier to demonize and label dogs than actually learn about who they are.

I believe most "pit bulls" are friends. I've seen some overcome terrible cruelty. I've seen some that have not...all at the hands of humans. Of my four dogs, three would be considered "pits" or "pit mixes." One was a bait dog and yes, he gets anxious and aggressive around dogs on leashes (wouldn't you?). Another is used at her doggy day care as the test dog since she gets along with every other dog and vice versa (and is the only friend to the temperamental Rottie). Our problem child is that likely due to her chow history, not the fraction of am staff genes. I've fostered, rescued and loved dozens of pits over the years. Some have been broken, the majority have not. It's important to know the dog as best you can and make informed decisions.

 

[dlavender]

I used to think as some have pointed out that bad owner=bad dog, until we had an incident with our dog. I know this thread is about pit bulls, but our experience highlights how some breeds really can be more dangerous than others.

We got an Akita puppy when he was 12 weeks old. We knew they could be aggressive, but we figured if we raised him correctly it would be fine. We took him to training, loved him, and he slept most nights at the foot of our daughters bed. We also had an older dachshund. The two adored each other. About 2 years later, the dachshund went to eat out of the Akita's bowl, like she's done probably 100 times before. Normally the Akita would playfully nudge the dachshund from her bowl. This time, the Akita went absolutely nuts on the other dog. Threw her around like a rag doll. Wife quickly scooped up the kids and got out of the house when the Akita would not respond or stop. When she finally let go I went to pick up the little dog and she growled at me. That's when we learned that nature>nurture. We still shudder at the thought of what might of happened had our children gone towards his bowl. We gave him to a rescue and they fully understood. The little dog was fine after some stitches and recovery.

We now have a golden retriever.

 

[cobright]

Is their reputation earned? I've been told insurance companies won't process claims related to any injuries. I know for a fact most campgrounds won't allow them on site, even if they are a mixed breed. My daughter has a mix, and he's the calmest, nicest dog...but I also saw him with my son's dog, and they got into a vicious fight...it was scary. Luckily my son, a big...strong man, was able to break them apart, but I wouldn't have been able to. I watch Judge Judy, and almost every case where an animal attack is involved, it's from a Pit-Bull. From what I've read, a Pit-Bull isn't a breed at all, but rather a mix of dog breed from the English bull terrier, the American bulldog, the boxer, the American pit bull terrier and the American Staffordshire terrier. “Pitbulls or pit bulls” are not recognized as a breed by the American Kennel Club (AKC). Your thoughts and experiences?

Here's the thing ... I've met many sweet pits. I have seen and read of staggering acts of tolerance and loyalty displayed by them. But... out of all pet dogs in this country, only 5% of them are pit bulls, yet out of all dog bite fatalities (and grievous injuries) over 60% were caused by pit bulls.

The common retort is that the dog is a product of it's upbringing. That ne'er-do-wells get these things and raise them to be killers. But this staggering disparity holds even when isolating the population and only looking at pits raised by owners with middle class incomes having the means to license them and care for them with regular veterinary visits. Even when receiving the very best care as a household pet, a pit bull is more than 10 times more likely to kill or maim someone than any other breed.

The breed also exhibits some unique characteristics when involved in an injury. Unlike any other breed, pit bulls are almost as likely to attack adults as they are children. With most dog bites, children are the most common victim because they are small and often behave like prey (running away and such). Pit bulls also have the highest percentage of incidence where the victim was reported to not display any provoking behavior, ether antagonizing the dog or behaving like prey.

My view is that we have let breeds of dogs disappear in the past. There are no more Turnspit dogs any more since we no longer need them to power the rotating roast beef spit in the kitchen. We no longer need a dog to murder bears in a blood sport arena.

 

[cinnaminny]

Not for me. Too much responsibility. I think many breeds are unpredictable. But when they are unpredictable, they're deadly. Not that they're the only ones.

I have an amazing little Boston Terrier, she is about all I can handle. I am not much of a pet person. I don't anticipate getting any more pets until I am a little old lady confined to a chair lol

 

[Jolly Cackle Farm]

There is no physical locking mechanism in the jaws of a pit bull, their jaw physiology is no different from any other breed. ...

just more mis-information.

disclosure - yes, i own a pit bull, and i can honestly say i have never had a more docile and friendly dog.....

 

[ThistleMae]

I used to think as some have pointed out that bad owner=bad dog, until we had an incident with our dog. I know this thread is about pit bulls, but our experience highlights how some breeds really can be more dangerous than others.

We got an Akita puppy when he was 12 weeks old. We knew they could be aggressive, but we figured if we raised him correctly it would be fine. We took him to training, loved him, and he slept most nights at the foot of our daughters bed. We also had an older dachshund. The two adored each other. About 2 years later, the dachshund went to eat out of the Akita's bowl, like she's done probably 100 times before. Normally the Akita would playfully nudge the dachshund from her bowl. This time, the Akita went absolutely nuts on the other dog. Threw her around like a rag doll. Wife quickly scooped up the kids and got out of the house when the Akita would not respond or stop. When she finally let go I went to pick up the little dog and she growled at me. That's when we learned that nature>nurture. We still shudder at the thought of what might of happened had our children gone towards his bowl. We gave him to a rescue and they fully understood. The little dog was fine after some stitches and recovery.

We now have a golden retriever.

Thank you for sharing. Perfect example to consider. Any dog, for some unknown reason may become unpredictable. I know it's not the norm, and we may not know the exact reason, such as the other example of the pit that turned on his owner during a confrontation with his teenage son, but I'm not sure we can accurately say that Pit Bulls (mixes) are the most likely to exhibit this behavior.

 

[ThistleMae]

Here's the thing ... I've met many sweet pits. I have seen and read of staggering acts of tolerance and loyalty displayed by them. But... out of all pet dogs in this country, only 5% of them are pit bulls, yet out of all dog bite fatalities (and grievous injuries) over 60% were caused by pit bulls.

The common retort is that the dog is a product of it's upbringing. That ne'er-do-wells get these things and raise them to be killers. But this staggering disparity holds even when isolating the population and only looking at pits raised by owners with middle class incomes having the means to license them and care for them with regular veterinary visits. Even when receiving the very best care as a household pet, a pit bull is more than 10 times more likely to kill or maim someone than any other breed.

The breed also exhibits some unique characteristics when involved in an injury. Unlike any other breed, pit bulls are almost as likely to attack adults as they are children. With most dog bites, children are the most common victim because they are small and often behave like prey (running away and such). Pit bulls also have the highest percentage of incidence where the victim was reported to not display any provoking behavior, ether antagonizing the dog or behaving like prey.

My view is that we have let breeds of dogs disappear in the past. There are no more Turnspit dogs any more since we no longer need them to power the rotating roast beef spit in the kitchen. We no longer need a dog to murder bears in a blood sport arena.

You make some very important points. Should we take a closer look at your stats? I just know from experience that studies can often be skewed by any number of factors that go into the study sample, the questions, where and how the information is gathered. Hey, you could definitely be right, and maybe as responsible dog owners we should all take a closer look at the data out there. I just think there may be information to the contrary, and bottom line...it will still be up to the potential owner to make the most informed decision possible.

 

[Miranda Danda]

We rescued a lab/pit mix from our local shelter. She has been such an amazing dog that we decided to rescue a senior pit from a rescue group in town that got him the morning he was scheduled to be put to sleep. He is amazing. My DD8 (now 10) picked him out and they immediately bonded. He is her best friend and will do anything she wants. He has worn butterfly wings, “danced”, and listened to countless stories. He’s actually a big baby who has to have a stuffed animal to lay with him at all times. He loves everyone who visits. Every morning the dogs go with me to drop my daughter off and they get tons of pets from everyone. Never had an issue.
My daughter was, however, bit in the face by a small dog. Thankfully, she closed her eye and it tore the meat around the eye.
My parents were very worried when we got our pit, just based on what they had seen on the news and read in the papers. He is now their big grand dog that they adore.

 

[SteveH]

My answer is "It depends"

It depends on the owner. It depends if the owner has taken the responsibility to properly train the dog. For every dangerous dog there is an irresponsible owner.

I am a dog training class right now. It's clear the Pit needs this training, it's also clear that none of us in the class fully trust the dog. He's massive and strong, we are working our way up to off leash training and at this point I will not let my dog off leash around him.

Pit's are not the only "dangerous" dog out there and Campgrounds, HOA's, Cities and Insurance Companies have rules for a reason. While a Chihuahua probably bites a whole lot more, a Pit can do a lot more damage.

 

[EMom]

In the late 60s/early 70s, we had a pit bull, but few people knew of their bad reputation then. We had it from the time it was a little puppy and it was our pet. It was indeed loyal and seemed loving, for the years we had it. We also had cows and the dog was brought up around them.

One day, a cow was just munching on some grass and the dog snapped. No provocation. It attacked the cow and would not let go. My father tried everything, but finally had to beat it to get it off. The cow died.

My father was terribly shaken because this dog he loved had shown a previously unseen side and now he feared for the safety of the children. The dog was gone at some point. No idea what happened to it, but we couldn’t keep it. My father couldn’t even talk about it.

There used to be a member here who went nuts on me when I posted this story and made up every excuse in the world as to why the attack wasn’t the dog’s fault. But it was. Period. And it’s a story I’ve heard all too many times since. A pit bull, raised with affection and love, snaps and viciously attacks. Until then, the owner would’ve sworn it was a sweetheart.

Well, they are. Until they aren’t. And that’s the problem. I will never be around one again.

 

[Hikergirl]

I have some "in my family" and they are very sweet dogs, however I would never own one myself.

 

[DLgal]

It depends on the owner. It depends if the owner has taken the responsibility to properly train the dog. For every dangerous dog there is an irresponsible owner.

No, it doesn't and your second statement is just a commonly held perception that simply isn't true.

My friend is a very responsible dog owner. The dog was well trained and well socialized. He raised it from a puppy and did everything right. He has never had an issue with any of his other dogs, ever in his life. His pit snapped on him and almost killed him.

It's a cop out to blame vicious animal behavior on the owner. Sometimes, the animal just acts like an animal. It happens all the time.

 

[Colleen27]

Very good and reasonable insight.

I actually have a scar from a Border Collie. When I was working for a vet I was bathing one. She turned and looked at me and I knew she was going to snap but I couldn’t just leave her in the elevated tub in case she tried to jump out. She got me on the ear as I turned away and tore my lobe. She wasn’t mean, she was just scared. I had cared for that dog numerous times before so who knows what I did to trigger her that day.

This is the first one I've ever had, so I'm not sure if neurotic is part of the breed or if it is just her. No one can handle her feet except DD10, and I don't want her trying to trim nails, so in a lifetime of owning dogs I'm taking mine to the groomer for routine nail trims now. She definitely has a herding impulse and gets a bit crazy when we let the rabbits out to run. She's not mean or anything, but she likes them to all be in one place and rabbits don't really do that. But she's generally a sweet thing, a total teddy bear with my youngest (who she has claimed as hers) and still quite young, only 15 months. They're starting agility training together this spring, and I've been told that helps to burn off some of the excess energy and impulse to have a "job" that herding breeds have, so hopefully with training and age we'll get her past some of the quirks.

Yes, I agree...knowing the dogs history is important. But like you, with many rescue dogs the history isn't known. Do you still have to be cautious regarding men and beers?

Yes, if she doesn't know them well. She's accepted that DH isn't a threat, even if he's roughhousing with the kids, and has slowly warmed to our next door neighbor who comes over to hang out by the fire sometimes. But she still has that initial negative reaction to the smells of cigarette smoke or beer on unfamiliar men, so my (adult) son has to be careful how he introduces her to his friends when they come over because some of them smoke and she will get defensive when they try to come into the house. We've only had her since August, though, and she's mellowed quite a bit in that time so I'm hopeful that it is something she'll overcome completely eventually.

I've always been cautious about rescuing dogs because of the unknowns of their history, and there's a certain irony in the fact that this is the dog that turned out to have issues - not the half-starved pit that we rescued from an unheated garage, not the pit mix that had five homes in under two years because the owners kept getting evicted. She came from a friend of a friend and we were told they couldn't keep her because she was too high energy, too destructive when bored, and the kids she was bought for weren't living up to their promises to exercise and play with her (all of which was true, but easily dealt with via crate training and a lot of attention). We didn't know until after the fact that the father in the family would yell and hit her as "discipline", or that he was particularly rough with her when he was drinking. I only found that out a couple months later, when I ran into a neighbor of her original owners who expressed relief that she was out of that home.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Interesting. So they are saying the baiting behavior is a genetic trait of these cross bred dogs, thus making them more dangerous than other breeds?

How dangerous a dog is is dependent upon far far more things than just breeding. How is it treated? How is it trained? Various other factors. Those things will go far in determining how dangerous a particular dog is. You can turn even the nicest breeds into a danger. There isn't any evidence that Pit Bulls on the whole are a bigger danger than other breeds. But yeah, a lot of them are used in illegal fights and a lot of them are used by drug dealers who have made a lot of pit bulls very dangerous.

 

[Colleen27]

Idk but my golden likes to retrieve & my dachshund likes to burrow & I taught neither of them to do that. It’s what they were bred to do. I used to have a beagle, they’re bred to flush prey. He tried to do this with the cats & smaller dog all the time. My point is if I have seen my dogs naturally do what they were bred to do without any training, then I’m not trusting any large breed that was bred to be aggressive.

And you've never seen an exercise in in-bred behavior until you've brought a border collie into a home with three cats, three rabbits and four kids! For a while there, I thought she was going to have a nervous breakdown trying to get everyone into the dining room at the same time.

In fairness, my border gets very agitated and aggressive when strange people come on the property. Acts like an angel with other people when we are out somewhere.

Ours too. And she's the same way with other dogs. She's a sweetheart at the dog park and loves playing with her "friend" at my daughter's best friend's house, but God forbid we bring another dog into our yard.

 

[Jolly Cackle Farm]

We rescued a lab/pit mix from our local shelter. She has been such an amazing dog that we decided to rescue a senior pit from a rescue group in town that got him the morning he was scheduled to be put to sleep. He is amazing. My DD8 (now 10) picked him out and they immediately bonded. He is her best friend and will do anything she wants. He has worn butterfly wings, “danced”, and listened to countless stories. He’s actually a big baby who has to have a stuffed animal to lay with him at all times. He loves everyone who visits. Every morning the dogs go with me to drop my daughter off and they get tons of pets from everyone. Never had an issue.
My daughter was, however, bit in the face by a small dog. Thankfully, she closed her eye and it tore the meat around the eye.
My parents were very worried when we got our pit, just based on what they had seen on the news and read in the papers. He is now their big grand dog that they adore.

we rescued ours as well. would do it again in a heartbeat recues absolutely make the best pets. i wish more people would do it rather than go to breeders or puppy mills.....

shelters are unfortunately full of dogs that would make great pets. beaks my heart

 

[tzolkin]

It depends on the owner. It depends if the owner has taken the responsibility to properly train the dog. For every dangerous dog there is an irresponsible owner.

I think the "there are no bad dogs, just bad owners" is a fallacy. Are there instances where this is true for common behavioral issues (begging, barking, jumping, etc)? Absolutely. But it is certainly not always the cause for major personality issues like aggression.

I know many "dog people" who are adamant about the "fact" that any time a dog bites or does something wrong it is 100% always the fault of the victim. I simply cannot believe that is true. Sometimes dogs just behave unpredictably.

A few months ago my greyhound pretty viciously attacked me. By your logic I'm an irresponsible dog owner, but I really don't think that is the case. I am fairly experienced with dogs and devote many hours of each day to training, exercising, and caring for my dogs. This particular dog was a trained and registered therapy dog with whom I volunteered at local nursing homes and hospitals. And yet, with no underlying health issues, he still decided to bite me.

Wow...thanks for this story. I too would have been with you on the bad owner=bad dogs. So nothing you've done has curbed the behavior?

I'm sure all the effort and time that poster has put into training has curbed the behavior, but some things are nearly impossible to eliminate.

 

[lovin'fl]

I personally believe it's all about the training myself. And I think this is true for all breeds. And they should be started young. But what about the rescue dogs...when you don't know what they've been exposed to. They could have PTSD and get unexpectedly triggered by something unintentional. But for campgrounds and insurance companies to essentially ban them, why have they been singled out?

Because statistics show they are a top breed for bites/attacks. Chart in this article shows fatal attacks:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallm...angerous-dog-breeds-infographic/#6b1c982962f8