RESALE POLICY CHANGE!

[LisaS]

What would they call it? DVC occupant? DVC other? DVC dismember? Or maybe a pledge? No That one would indicate an ability to advance your standing.....so no..... a DVC affiliate. That's it.

I would say they are Members. Those who are grandfathered are Members with Benefits, which brings to mind a Seinfeld episode...

 

[beer dave]

I would say they are Members. Those who are grandfathered are Members with Benefits, which brings to mind a Seinfeld episode...

That's really great-- members with benefits--- I don't think we can elaborate here.... oh the ideas...

 

[ColonialMouse]

We are all Disney Vacation Club members. Any talk of new resale buyers not being members is just silly talk.

Mike, you're right it's silly. But here is the text from the "Membership Extras Acknowledgement and Disclosure Statement" (MEADSFinal.pdf) Rev April 4, 2016.

"“Member” as used in this Statement shall mean a Purchaser who has acquired an Ownership Interest directly from DVD..."

So DVC has defined "Member" that way. I'm not quite sure if they intend "Purchaser" to mean resale buyers as well, as I think they're referring to people purchasing from DVD in this document.

Now as I've pointed out before, this doc is itself silly as it then discusses Members who bought via resale in the second paragraph. (and I'm disappointed in the quality of DVC lawyers here) But despite it all being silly, the reason the talk is in play is because DVC itself made it so.

Bruce
"Purchaser" since 2012

 

[freediverdude]

So now we have a new term called purchaser, lol.

 

[mab2012]

There are at least three real advantages to DVC, but you didn't cite them:

• The uniqueness of the onsite WDW resorts. Nobody can top that one. There may be nicer timeshare resorts, but nobody can claim the location of the WDW resorts.
• The other feature that is rare in the timeshare world is the finite term of the DVC contracts. Some consider longer better, but I personally like the idea that the thing ends at some point, so I don't have to worry about my kids being saddled with something they don't want.
• [ETA]ROFR. Most other timeshares have ROFR or something like it, but DVC is the only one I know of that actually uses it. ROFR does help keep the resale prices up, and that's a legitimate plus for DVC.

FWIW, HGVC (Hilton) exercises ROFR. Perhaps not quite as aggressively or consistently as DVC, but units are regularly taken, and knowledgable brokers will advise their clients (buyers and sellers) on what is (and isn't) likely to pass.

I don't think "Right To Use" contracts are really all that rare either, although outright ownership is probably more common. Maybe it's just the timeshares I'm personally interested in that all seem to be RTU (aside from DVC, Club Intrawest, and White Point in Nova Scotia).

Wyndham's Bonnet Creek can claim proximity to WDW parks that is at least as good as some of the more distant DVC resorts (depending on which particular park you're interested in), but what you don't get with Bonnet Creek is the onsite perks. THAT is definitely the biggest advantage DVC has going, and surely the single biggest reason people are willing to pay a premium for DVC (bought direct or otherwise).

As you've already pointed out, there's really no such thing as a "best" timeshare. Buyers really need to consider what's most important to them, and then pick the system that best matches their needs. But the golden rule of ANY timeshare is to remember that at the end of the day, all you are guaranteed is your deeded ownership usage. Anything else can (and most likely will) change with time. IMO the key to timeshare happiness is to know what you're buying, and learn to make best use of what you've got for however long it lasts.

 

[bumbershoot]

Mike, you're right it's silly. But here is the text from the "Membership Extras Acknowledgement and Disclosure Statement" (MEADSFinal.pdf) Rev April 4, 2016.

"“Member” as used in this Statement shall mean a Purchaser who has acquired an Ownership Interest directly from DVD..."

So DVC has defined "Member" that way. I'm not quite sure if they intend "Purchaser" to mean resale buyers as well, as I think they're referring to people purchasing from DVD in this document.

Now as I've pointed out before, this doc is itself silly as it then discusses Members who bought via resale in the second paragraph. (and I'm disappointed in the quality of DVC lawyers here) But despite it all being silly, the reason the talk is in play is because DVC itself made it so.

Bruce
"Purchaser" since 2012

Yes, thank you for posting that! THEY created the distinction and subsequent conversation.

 

[ParkHoppers]

Imagine being a CM at the new member lounge at Epcot and explaining to the person who just dropped 20k on a DVC resale that him and his family can't come in because they don't have membership cards. Yikes! Now imagine the same scenario and it's July and 98 degrees out.

 

[boxer11]

Imagine being a CM at the new member lounge at Epcot and explaining to the person who just dropped 20k on a DVC resale that him and his family can't come in because they don't have membership cards. Yikes! Now imagine the same scenario and it's July and 98 degrees out.

Yes, and imagine that line of people being denied access just getting longer & longer every year. DVC knows it's going to be a problem in a few years or less. MEADS states "These benefits are available for your use a period of 3 years or less after the first date the vacation ownership is available for your use."

 

[maburke]

DVC makes money by sales. Disney Food and Beverage makes money on selling things to eat.

Just like the MK parties for the anniversary, DVC had to rent the MK and pay Disney parks for that.
It might be one Disney experience to the guest but in the board rooms and on paper, they are all separate with separate budgets and different goals.

I thought we had established that DVD must be paying for the parties, otherwise, they couldn't make this change.

And I think the pp did make their point to the manager of VB, who most likely is concerned with all aspects of the resort, regardless of division. If desk staff behavior interfered with gift shop profitability, it makes sense that he should be concerned with that.

 

[maburke]

I still don't understand why they're going to all this trouble with splitting into membership classes instead of just offering a cruise with direct purchase. It would still entice some people, and none of the previous members would be upset about it affecting their resale values. And it can't be more expensive than throwing these lavish 25th parties only to emphasize what they are taking away from exactly the people who have never experienced them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm gonna love the Beach Bash, but it's not going to entice me to buy direct in the future, since that doesn't change my eligibility.

 

[Ohana2011]

Imagine being a CM at the new member lounge at Epcot and explaining to the person who just dropped 20k on a DVC resale that him and his family can't come in because they don't have membership cards. Yikes! Now imagine the same scenario and it's July and 98 degrees out.

Think of it... 1./. Resale members are paying the same maintenance fees as all other direct purchasers... 2./ Resale members are buying a fraction of the contract, not the full term... So, let's say Disney Dan buys 150 points at VWL at $85.00 /point w/26 yrs remaining on contract. That's a base of $12,750. not including maintenance for 150 pts or $490.00/yr over 26 yrs. Had DD purchased brand new in 200, he would have paid $67.00 per point (base $10,050.) - over 42 yrs is about $239.29/yr. Now take away DD' ability to purchase AP at a discount of about $200.00/ticket x family 4... That's another $20,800. out of DD's pocket over 26 yrs. So it's not only standing out in the heat that burns poor D Dan, his DW, DS & DD... And I have seen the contract about Incidental benefits directly from Disney on previous posts along with the three year clause, but that wasn't the contract I signed... My first time involved w/resale - so perhaps when & if I pass ROFR the official Disney contract will be presented in closing? Shouldn't that whole contract be presented at time of offer? Any experienced buyers know for certain?

 

[Dean]

Think of it... 1./. Resale members are paying the same maintenance fees as all other direct purchasers... 2./ Resale members are buying a fraction of the contract, not the full term... So, let's say Disney Dan buys 150 points at VWL at $85.00 /point w/26 yrs remaining on contract. That's a base of $12,750. not including maintenance for 150 pts or $490.00/yr over 26 yrs. Had DD purchased brand new in 200, he would have paid $67.00 per point (base $10,050.) - over 42 yrs is about $239.29/yr. Now take away DD' ability to purchase AP at a discount of about $200.00/ticket x family 4... That's another $20,800. out of DD's pocket over 26 yrs. So it's not only standing out in the heat that burns poor D Dan, his DW, DS & DD... And I have seen the contract about Incidental benefits directly from Disney on previous posts along with the three year clause, but that wasn't the contract I signed... My first time involved w/resale - so perhaps when & if I pass ROFR the official Disney contract will be presented in closing? Shouldn't that whole contract be presented at time of offer? Any experienced buyers know for certain?

The contract you signed was to be a DVC member and own at a DVC resort. There are several issues with your line of thinking. fees are paid yearly so you're only paying for now and a portion of future improvements that you wouldn't want to have to pay all at one time. Using that line of thinking, those that have owned longer have paid for the updates you will experience. The other options are not part of the true owned membership. While it's true the price now is more than many years ago, a dollar now is worth less than it was then as well. In that regard it's no different than buying a stock then vs now. I think you're also looking at DVC, DVD and Disney all as one and they are all separate entities both legally and functionally. Regardless that's the landscape today. It truly shouldn't matter from the standpoint of whether DVC makes sense for a given person but I realize that not having options you might use and might save you some at times is a loss and I get the emotional issue of having different classes of members. However, this is the nature of timeshares along with the fact they change over time and almost always for the worse.

 

[Ohana2011]

The contract you signed was to be a DVC member and own at a DVC resort. There are several issues with your line of thinking. fees are paid yearly so you're only paying for now and a portion of future improvements that you wouldn't want to have to pay all at one time. Using that line of thinking, those that have owned longer have paid for the updates you will experience. The other options are not part of the true owned membership. While it's true the price now is more than many years ago, a dollar now is worth less than it was then as well. In that regard it's no different than buying a stock then vs now. I think you're also looking at DVC, DVD and Disney all as one and they are all separate entities both legally and functionally. Regardless that's the landscape today. It truly shouldn't matter from the standpoint of whether DVC makes sense for a given person but I realize that not having options you might use and might save you some at times is a loss and I get the emotional issue of having different classes of members. However, this is the nature of timeshares along with the fact they change over time and almost always for the worse.

Thank you, Dean... Yes, I totally agree that DVC members have paid for the upgrades we see today, which my seller was one of... And for that 0.46 share of unit 6A, she paid all of her dues & maintenance since 2000. So with all due respect, I see it that I'm picking up where she left off... Should I go back and pay her for maintenance fees that she paid for over the past 16 yrs - She used those points & therefore had the opportunity to experience all the updates you speak of... So I would say no. I don't mind paying more per point than she did as I understand inflation... I have rented points from other owners over the years, so although I haven't paid direct to DVC, I have supported some of those developments which I look to continue to do through resale. My situation over time may change that I will be able to buy direct at some point, but with a mortgage, child with college in the next several years, etc., resale is doable right now - direct isn't and if we want to continue to make Disney memories, this was our best option... But, now you take away some of those perks & it costs me 600+ more a year... That's my airfare right there. Sure, Disney can change at any time - I'm okay w/that... But give us a heads up. That's all. Then I can say - Hon, remember we need to budget those APs in for next year.

 

[Ohana2011]

And they should. All owners are responsible for the upkeep and operation of their home resort

Absolutely!

 

[Dean]

Thank you, Dean... Yes, I totally agree that DVC members have paid for the upgrades we see today, which my seller was one of... And for that 0.46 share of unit 6A, she paid all of her dues & maintenance since 2000. So with all due respects, I see it that I'm picking up where she left off... Should I go back and pay her for maintenance fees that she paid for over the past 16 yrs - She used those points & therefore had the opportunity to experience all the updates you speak of... So I would say no. I don't mind paying more per point than she did as I understand inflation... I have rented points from other owners over the years, so although I haven't paid direct to DVC, I have supported some of those developments which I look to continue to do through resale. My situation over time may change that I will be able to buy direct at some point, but with a mortgage, child with college in the next several years, etc., resale is doable right now - direct isn't and if we want to continue to make Disney memories, this was our best option.

As it should be. But if I understood your previous post that I quoted correctly, you were complaining that you were getting less for owning that the previous owner and you were upset about it. If I misunderstood, please forgive me. My point is that you're not getting anything more or less for the membership itself than the previous member would, you're just not getting the additional perks DVD (NOT DVC) is offering. Hopefully you knew there were compromises to resale, that is one of the costs of the savings associated. I've been suggesting there should, and likely would, be changes as long as I can remember here.

 

[lmkoons]

Just got a phone call from DVC. They were calling on behalf of Ken Potrock, regarding the email I had sent to him on Wednesday (complaining about not grandfathering those of us who were currently in the pipeline). They informed me that they had reversed their decision from Tuesday and are grandfathering anyone whose contract had been received by them prior to 4/4/16. This matches what we were told by our broker on Thursday. They apologized for the confusion and welcomed me home. Even though I already knew they had reversed their decision, the phone call was a nice gesture. It let me know that those of us who had sent out emails had been heard and that they did value my business.

 

[freediverdude]

Hey, and what about that direct purchase tote bag that I got? They don't call that the $16,000 bag for nothing! It is a nice bag though- would probably sell for $70 in the gift shops.

 

[Ohana2011]

As it should be. But if I understood your previous post that I quoted correctly, you were complaining that you were getting less for owning that the previous owner and you were upset about it. If I misunderstood, please forgive me. My point is that you're not getting anything more or less for the membership itself than the previous member would, you're just not getting the additional perks DVD (NOT DVC) is offering. Hopefully you knew there were compromises to resale, that is one of the costs of the savings associated. I've been suggesting there should, and likely would, be changes as long as I can remember here.

Not complaining - just making a statement. Either way with the benefits... It is what it is - whether we pass ROFR or not, I look forward to enjoying DVC & Disney for the years to come... And thank you for pointing out that there is a difference between DVC & DVD. As a "newbie" I wasn't aware there was a difference... The reason why I'm here... To learn from those more experienced and knowledgeable than I.

 

[Ohana2011]

Just got a phone call from DVC. They were calling on behalf of Ken Potrock, regarding the email I had sent to him on Wednesday (complaining about not grandfathering those of us who were currently in the pipeline). They informed me that they had reversed their decision from Tuesday and are grandfathering anyone whose contract had been received by them prior to 4/4/16. This matches what we were told by our broker on Thursday. They apologized for the confusion and welcomed me home. Even though I already knew they had reversed their decision, the phone call was a nice gesture. It let me know that those of us who had sent out emails had been heard and that they did value my business.

Thank you for taking the time to do that, Imkoons... Your email along with others is what made this happen for those of us who presented just before the announcement of 4/4/16. I know that I personally can't thank you enough for advocating for us.

 

[Dean]

Not complaining - just making a statement. Either way with the benefits... It is what it is - whether we pass ROFR or not, I look forward to enjoying DVC & Disney for the years to come... And thank you for pointing out that there is a difference between DVC & DVD. As a "newbie" I wasn't aware there was a difference... The reason why I'm here... To learn from those more experienced and knowledgeable than I.

I suppose I misinterpreted the burning reference as you were mad. Ideally a new resale buyer would find out a lot of this information prior to buying. One point I meant to make the first time I quoted you was that technically and legally you're signing up for and stepping into the shoes that the original purchaser agreed to. There is no responsibility for DVC to inform the resale buyer during the process or to make sure they understand negatives. In many ways that also applies to retail buyers as well.