Riverea vs. L14 and 7 month booking

[BWV Dreamin]

I think if you look at the point chart disparity between Riviera and BWV & BCV, you will get a very clear idea of why DVC would not want to extend this resorts past 2042. BWV & BCV have some of the best value point charts in the DVC system. DVC can't to end the contracts on these resorts, and then do a quick remodel and jack up the point charts up to the levels of RIV, VGF, BLT, or Poly for this resorts in such a prime location. They will probably double the point totals for these resorts easily, and sell the resort out in less than 2 years, just to people who want to go to Food & Wine. I bet on Janaury 1st, 2043 (or when ever DVC officially takes over the resort completly) they will have all the permits in place and contractor line up to flip these resorts, and start selling points by 2044.

But they kept the same point chart for CCV as is for BRV, BWV, BCV. Was this a mistake by Disney ( and a bargain for owners)?

 

[Matty B13]

But they kept the same point chart for CCV as is for BRV, BWV, BCV. Was this a mistake by Disney ( and a bargain for owners)?

I don’t think it was a mistake, but CCV isn’t walkable to Epcot or HS, so I really expect a huge increase at both these resorts in points, point charts, and prices per point. Thankfully all my points are grandfathered in, feel bad for the people who are buying resale now.

 

[ELMC]

[snip] What you are completely missing is the land value in relation to what it holds. [snip]

Remember it has everything to do with money not your emotional views.

I would like to think that I'm fairly well versed on the topics discussed here on the DIS - to that end I think I have at least a small understanding of the value of the land surrounding Crescent Lake and bordering Epcot. I also think that if you go back and look at my long history of posts you will see that emotion plays little to no part in my thoughts and opinions that I share on here. I also try my best to agree or disagree respectfully. In contrast, your brief history of posts are coming across as quite combative. I'm not sure that's what you're going for, but judging by some of the responses you've received as well as my perceptions, it's what's happening.

I look forward to exchanging ideas with you because I believe everyone here has a lot to share and every point of view is valid. But I won't allow myself to be belittled or engage in trading insults.

 

[Spark65]

I would like to think that I'm fairly well versed on the topics discussed here on the DIS - to that end I think I have at least a small understanding of the value of the land surrounding Crescent Lake and bordering Epcot. I also think that if you go back and look at my long history of posts you will see that emotion plays little to no part in my thoughts and opinions that I share on here. I also try my best to agree or disagree respectfully. In contrast, your brief history of posts are coming across as quite combative. I'm not sure that's what you're going for, but judging by some of the responses you've received as well as my perceptions, it's what's happening.

I look forward to exchanging ideas with you because I believe everyone here has a lot to share and every point of view is valid. But I won't allow myself to be belittled or engage in trading insults.

Actually your original post came across as snarky and to use your history as a way to justify your position is wrong. I am hardly combative but when I see posts I disagree with I challenge them. No insults have been thrown but I do work in the construction industry and have for many years and my positions are based on realistic fact not maybes. You don't have to agree with them but to belittle them and think I won't defend my position is unrealistic.
You have your views and I have mine doesn't mean we have to agree nor will I allow a one sided conversation that would be boring don't you think?

 

[ELMC]

Actually your original post came across as snarky and to use your history as a way to justify your position is wrong. I am hardly combative but when I see posts I disagree with I challenge them. No insults have been thrown but I do work in the construction industry and have for many years and my positions are based on realistic fact not maybes. You don't have to agree with them but to belittle them and think I won't defend my position is unrealistic.
You have your views and I have mine doesn't mean we have to agree nor will I allow a one sided conversation that would be boring don't you think?

I have had many, many, enjoyable and respectful disagreements with the members of this board. I am sorry that I can't count you among them. Fortunately the DIS has an ignore feature, which I think I will be taking advantage of. Be well.

 

[Spark65]

I have had many, many, enjoyable and respectful disagreements with the members of this board. I am sorry that I can't count you among them. Fortunately the DIS has an ignore feature, which I think I will be taking advantage of. Be well.

I am glad you have decided to use the ignorant function it's a function many boards allow people to use so they can insulate themselves against differing opinions and generally used when losing an argument. Keep in mind just because you have been a forum member for 8 years doesn't mean your opinion matters more than someone who has just joined.

 

[DougEMG]

I am glad you have decided to use the ignorant function it's a function many boards allow people to use so they can insulate themselves against differing opinions and generally used when losing an argument. Keep in mind just because you have been a forum member for 8 years doesn't mean your opinion matters more than someone who has just joined.

Come on now, implying that ELMC is ignorant is a little over the top. It certainly doesn't help make your case either.

 

[Bing Showei]

I am glad you have decided to use the ignorant function it's a function many boards allow people to use so they can insulate themselves against differing opinions and generally used when losing an argument. Keep in mind just because you have been a forum member for 8 years doesn't mean your opinion matters more than someone who has just joined.

Since your first post, it’s clear you’ve joined these boards looking to defend your decision to buy at Riviera. I feel bad seeing you try so hard, but I get how you are compelled to do so. The side of me that almost made that same choice to buy in at Riviera just wishes you went about it in a more intelligent way.

The thing is, talk of tearing down revenue-generating, hugely popular, hotel properties that not only host lucrative conventions year round, but sit on prime walkable hotel real-estate, in order to expand a park (that recently released a multi-year/multi-billion dollar plan to more efficiently use the space it already occupies) to “fit more people” because as you so cleverly concluded, more people “translates to more money,” brings into question your ability to be any sort of authority on future-planning anything.

More specifically, seeing you make this point to justify buying Riviera today is not only cringe worthy, it undercuts your judgment for buying into the very resort that you are trying so hard to defend; that buying Riviera is a brilliant move in 2019 because in 2042, Disney is going to tear out the Boardwalk Inn and the Beach Club Resort so that they can make Epcot bigger and build Skyliners to giant timeshares instead of little antiquated ones that people have to walk into the parks from.

You become your own worst enemy when you make assertions like this.

Of course when this is challenged, you attempt to talk down to or insult people instead of engage in any sort of respectful, reasoned discussion.

If ELMC, or anyone, does ignore you, it’s not because they are choosing to shroud themself in ignorance, it’s because people have little tolerance for juvenile posts like:

You know Bing buying DVC is a luxury item like taking a vacation it's not needed and more important things come first it's called responsibilities. If you are using rainy day money to pay for it well too bad for you..

You really don't see the big picture do you. [snip]

If you’re being ignored, it’s because people prefer interacting with people who communicate like adults.

Riviera is a beautiful resort with a lot of great reasons to buy in. You need to stop soiling that by brain vomiting nonsense about how much better a business model Riviera is than those “archaic” Beach Club and Boardwalk resorts, or how the Riviera Resort timeshare model is the wave of the future. Doing so and then calling people names when they call bull **** on it shines a rather unfavorable light on your own woeful ignorance.

 

[tnicks]

Bottom line is no one knows how this is going to play out and the plan Disney currently has might not even be what happens 20 years from now. So might as well grab the popcorn and relax.

The thing that makes me sad is that I love epcot for many reasons, one of them being that I can breathe in there without being packed in like sardines. Revealing plans to get more people in there worries me.

 

[Spark65]

Come on now, implying that ELMC is ignorant is a little over the top. It certainly doesn't help make your case either.

No one called anyone ignorant please re-read. It clearly states I don't agree with the use of a certain function to avoid debate.

 

[Brianstl]

I think if you look at the point chart disparity between Riviera and BWV & BCV, you will get a very clear idea of why DVC would not want to extend this resorts past 2042. BWV & BCV have some of the best value point charts in the DVC system. DVC can't wait to end the contracts on these resorts, and then do a quick remodel and jack up the point charts up to the levels of RIV, VGF, BLT, or Poly for this resorts in such a prime location. They will probably double the point totals for these resorts easily, and sell the resort out in less than 2 years, just to people who want to go to Food & Wine. I bet on Janaury 1st, 2043 (or when ever DVC officially takes over the resort completly) they will have all the permits in place and contractor line up to flip these resorts, and start selling points by 2044.

I don’t see how you can think BCV is a value at $225 a point with 22 years left on the contract. It isn’t in anyway. While a it takes less points for a studio at BCV than a preferred studio at RIV the room itself costs you far more per year than RIV at the 11 month window.

 

[Spark65]

Since your first post, it’s clear you’ve joined these boards looking to defend your decision to buy at Riviera. I feel bad seeing you try so hard, but I get how you are compelled to do so. The side of me that almost made that same choice to buy in at Riviera just wishes you went about it in a more intelligent way.

The thing is, talk of tearing down revenue-generating, hugely popular, hotel properties that not only host lucrative conventions year round, but sit on prime walkable hotel real-estate, in order to expand a park (that recently released a multi-year/multi-billion dollar plan to more efficiently use the space it already occupies) to “fit more people” because as you so cleverly concluded, more people “translates to more money,” brings into question your ability to be any sort of authority on future-planning anything.

More specifically, seeing you make this point to justify buying Riviera today is not only cringe worthy, it undercuts your judgment for buying into the very resort that you are trying so hard to defend; that buying Riviera is a brilliant move in 2019 because in 2042, Disney is going to tear out the Boardwalk Inn and the Beach Club Resort so that they can make Epcot bigger and build Skyliners to giant timeshares instead of little antiquated ones that people have to walk into the parks from.

You become your own worst enemy when you make assertions like this.

Of course when this is challenged, you attempt to talk down to or insult people instead of engage in any sort of respectful, reasoned discussion.

If ELMC, or anyone, does ignore you, it’s not because they are choosing to shroud themself in ignorance, it’s because people have little tolerance for juvenile posts like:


If you’re being ignored, it’s because people prefer interacting with people who communicate like adults.

Riviera is a beautiful resort with a lot of great reasons to buy in. You need to stop soiling that by brain vomiting nonsense about how much better a business model Riviera is than those “archaic” Beach Club and Boardwalk resorts, or how the Riviera Resort timeshare model is the wave of the future. Doing so and then calling people names when they call bull **** on it shines a rather unfavorable light on your own woeful ignorance.

Bing

I am not defending anything I have purchased I don't need to. I don't let others guide me in life as to my choices. You should go through some of your posts and read your comments sometime rose colored glasses come to mind.

I don't agree with a lot of the comments (not just in one post-across the board in general) how Disney isn't a good value anymore, how the discounts could be better, etc. I prefer to defend Disney because I still get good value as does everyone here. I could go on but really not worth my while.

Now Bing, since you are from the Boston area as am I and I work within the construction Industry you can see the development going on right before your eyes. Houses being knocked down for Mcmansions, buildings in Boston removed for larger ones. The old Hynes at the Pru is next and I remember back in '85 when it was completed. So to think a Disney property is untouchable think again nothing lasts forever and history has shown that think River Country.

So Bing lets agree I have my views and you have yours I will call it like I see it. I have never defended ideology or statements I can't agree with and never will. I am sorry some people feel they are being challenged but longtime posters aren't always right and criticism is part of daily life that includes forums.

 

[CarolMN]

From the DIS Posting Guidelines:

4. NO FIGHTING/SARCASM​

While we'd like to think that a Disney fan site is always lighthearted, there are times when there are disagreements. Let's face it, there are certain topics that can transform any of us into a raging "Donald Duck." When you sense this is happening, we ask that you step away from the discussion before it escalates into a fight. Just like Mom always said about fighting, we don't care who started the argument and we don't want it on the DIS. (Okay, she didn't say the part about the DIS, but you know what we mean.) No attacking others and no sarcasm please. Either will result in an infraction.


You've all been warned. Please return to DIS-like discourse. Thank you.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

But they kept the same point chart for CCV as is for BRV, BWV, BCV. Was this a mistake by Disney ( and a bargain for owners)?

This was because it was handcuffed spiritually to BRV.

 

[DougEMG]

Of interest to a lot of people is what will happen to BWV and BCV when they expire. I think everyone can agree that Disney will want to increase the point charts, probably along the likes of BLT and maybe VGF even. So what could they do.

• Offer extensions. I think this is wishful thinking, but sign me up if it happens
• Remodel as per POLY and CCR
• Tear down and build new and bigger as they did with the garden wing at the contemporary to build BLT. Would this be on only the dvc component or the hotel as well given how intergrated they.

Really the last two come down to a numbers exercise. How much lost revenue will there be while they tear down and rebuild a new larger resort vrs how long to make that back and come out ahead of just remodelling. I have no idea what those numbers look like.

Now I love the BWV and BCV location, theming and styling, so I wouldn't like to see that replaced by a large tower like BLT or RIV, so perhaps that colours my thoughts about the best option.

Remodelling though is the less risky, safer and cheaper option. One you probably don't get fired over for making.

If I had to bet, I would bet on them taking the low risk cheap option and doing a remodel.

 

[ELMC]

Of interest to a lot of people is what will happen to BWV and BCV when they expire. I think everyone can agree that Disney will want to increase the point charts, probably along the likes of BLT and maybe VGF even. So what could they do.

• Offer extensions. I think this is wishful thinking, but sign me up if it happens
• Remodel as per POLY and CCR
• Tear down and build new and bigger as they did with the garden wing at the contemporary to build BLT. Would this be on only the dvc component or the hotel as well given how intergrated they.

Really the last two come down to a numbers exercise. How much lost revenue will there be while they tear down and rebuild a new larger resort vrs how long to make that back and come out ahead of just remodelling. I have no idea what those numbers look like.

Now I love the BWV and BCV location, theming and styling, so I wouldn't like to see that replaced by a large tower like BLT or RIV, so perhaps that colours my thoughts about the best option.

Remodelling though is the less risky, safer and cheaper option. One you probably don't get fired over for making.

If I had to bet, I would bet on them taking the low risk cheap option and doing a remodel.

Disney is about two things...profit and theming. So far they've demonstrated that theming is still important in their quest for profit. While large tower-like hotels fit in certain areas (BLT and RIV come to mind) they don't fit in other areas such as VGF, PVB and I think in most people's opinions, BWV and BCV. That said, I wouldn't object to an 8th-floor room at BCV looking straight into Epcot with a nice view of the fireworks. But truth be told, I'd be surprised if they went high rise with those two resorts.

 

[zavandor]

But truth be told, I'd be surprised if they went high rise with those two resorts.

I'd be suprised too.
If you can see Epcot from your 8th floor room, Epcot can see you too. There are constraints on how tall they can go before the hotels are visible from the parks.

 

[Sandisw]

This was because it was handcuffed spiritually to BRV.

I agree. I think it would have been hard to set CCV at a different level than BRV, seeing they are essentially the “same” resort!

 

[ELMC]

I'd be suprised too.
If you can see Epcot from your 8th floor room, Epcot can see you too. There are constraints on how tall they can go before the hotels are visible from the parks.

Great point. I wonder, however, if they are as concerned about sight lines now as they were in the past. Gigantic Guardians building from the streets of France? No biggie. Rapunzel's Tower in the background of the Haunted Mansion? Who cares. Or my favorite, Buzz Lightyear as you are still technically in Batuu. But to your point, a 10-story hotel in the background of the UK Pavillion might be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Let's hope they realize that before construction and not after.

 

[Katie2]

I think as far as Disney is concerned having too many resorts with contracts ending simultaneously would be crippling to them. Reduced room revenue and crowds financially doesn't make sense. If they decide to do this they would have to use some of the resorts as rental units only while they renovate and re-market others. I strongly believe getting a big wad of cash from timeshare buyers is more financially sound, it's like getting paid upfront.

I see Disney knocking down Beach Club and Boardwalk in it's entirety myself and expanding Epcot in the future. That's why the shift in building the Riviera where it did but close to Epcot with a new transportation system. I also see building new resorts around the expanded Epcot as well but all being done at the same time. I did hear a rumor once that Disney was wanting to expand Epcot and I see this as the perfect way to do so. From a development potential this would be a homerun for them.

So buying at Riviera will be the best option if my scenario comes true.

What about the Swan and Dolphin? I highly doubt they would knock down BWV and BC to give way to the Dolphin and Swan (and the new tower they are planning to build) priority location.