Shouldn't I just pay cash for kids TS?

[Cruz Family]

The following was copied and pasted from Disney directly
note the phrase - "includes the following meals for each guest in your party".




For each night of your package, the Disney Dining Plan includes the following meals for each Guest in your party
One (1) Table-Service Meal
Includes appetizer, entree, dessert or full buffet and non-alcoholic beverage as well as gratuity (children ages 3-9 must choose from the children's menu if available; dessert not available at breakfast)
One (1) Counter-Service Meal
Includes entree, dessert or one complete combo meal, and non-alcoholic beverage (children ages 3-9 must choose from the children's menu if available; dessert not available at breakfast)
One (1) Snack
Choose from a frozen ice-cream novelty or fruit bar, popcorn scoop (single serving box), single piece of whole fruit, single serving Grab Bag of Frito-Lay's Chips, 20oz. bottle of Coke, Diet Coke, Sprite or 24oz. Dasani Water, medium fountain soft drink or apple juice. Available at select counter-service and snack-cart locations.
As an added benefit, you may exchange 2 table-service meals for either 1 Signature Dining Experience at one of our finest restaurants, such as the acclaimed Citricos at Disney's Grand Floridian Resort & Spa, or for 1 Disney Dinner Show, such as Hoop-Dee-Doo Musical Revue.
Select Downtown Disney® restaurants may require a surcharge for certain entree items.
Reservations are strongly suggested and can be made up to 180 days in advance. Please call (407) WDW-DINE (939-3463).† Reservations are required for Disney dinner shows

 

[disneymom3]

This has been going on for more than a year yet Disney hasn't changed it.

Exactly and it's not like Disney hadn't thought of this possibility BEFORE they unveiled the plan. It cracks me up that people on the DIS board think they have to protect Disney's interests by being the vacation police. After all, Disney is a multimillion dollar company with some of the most successful resorts and theme parks in the world. Do you (general you here) think they didn't see this "loophole" until after people started using it?

I don't really care what someone does with their credits. I am using the dining plan with just adults anyway and am not sure it would be a good fit if we were to take our whole family because we have one of those crazy 10 year old adults and while she likes a good steak on occasion, she really really likes mac and cheese!

 

[Lewisc]

The following was copied and pasted from Disney directly
note the phrase - "includes the following meals for each guest in your party".
........

I don't know how to cut and paste from a pdf file but look at page 1 of the brochure. The very next paragraph shows how the total TS credits are aggregated for the family and that any one in the family can use those credits. Every member of the family is given a TS, CS and snack credit for every night and any member of the family can use those credits at any time during the stay.

If Disney wanted each person to only use their own credits then Disney wouldn't aggregate them. Park passes aren't aggregated. If Disney wanted to have child and adult credits they would have done it. It's not reasonable to expect guests to have to keep better records than the computer system.

Assume a guest puts their kids in a kids club the last night and then dine in a signature restaurant. Tell the server you only have 2 adult and 2 child credits and he'll look at you like you have two heads. You have 4 TS credits left and those 4 credits will be debited to pay for your meal.

There is no distinction made between child and adult credits. I suspect that this flexibility was intended to accommodate families in which kids skip meals but there isn't anything to stop a guest who wants to take advantage of Disney's generosity.

Again I don't think I'd set up the plan that way but the language is crystal clear.

I'd have no problem if Disney decided to change the plan to work the way you want it to but it's really not up to posters to invent rules so they can attack guests who follow Disney's rules but not their imaginary rules.

 

[Lewisc]

Those posters aren't being the vacation police, police enforce laws. Rather they are the vacation dictators, they want to enforce laws they create.

I'm using the plan with adults, I'm not benefiting from Disney's generosity.

Exactly and it's not like Disney hadn't thought of this possibility BEFORE they unveiled the plan. It cracks me up that people on the DIS board think they have to protect Disney's interests by being the vacation police. After all, Disney is a multimillion dollar company with some of the most successful resorts and theme parks in the world. Do you (general you here) think they didn't see this "loophole" until after people started using it?

I don't really care what someone does with their credits. I am using the dining plan with just adults anyway and am not sure it would be a good fit if we were to take our whole family because we have one of those crazy 10 year old adults and while she likes a good steak on occasion, she really really likes mac and cheese!

 

[disneymom3]

Those posters aren't being the vacation police, police enforce laws. Rather they are the vacation dictators, they want to enforce laws they create.

I like that "vacation dictators"

 

[GinaGrumpyDwarf]

I agree with the previous poster, Disney is getting all of your vacation dollars (well most of them anyway) when they may not of without the dining plan. DH said last year that if Disney did the free dining again, we would go again in September...well, we're goin again. If Disney hadnt offered it, we wouldnt be back in Disney this year! Disney clearly wins out with taking our money on the room, and the extras. I dont have a problem shelling out the money to Disney, but if i can further enjoy myself by using my daughter's TS credits for adult meals, i see no harm. As i see it, i have 30 credits at the begining of my vacation. However i choose to use them is up to me. This being the second year for free dining, dont you think that if Disney really wanted to make everything seperate, they would? This year DD will be using her TS credits for her meals, since she's bigger and eats more. Therefore it's worth it for us, and last year by the end of the 7th day we were sick of food..lol.
The CS credits will be great for Food and Wine!!

 

[ngtotd_dtrt]

Anyway, think I've read all angles now, thanks everyone. We should let this thread die out now, at least IMHO.

(Good try though )

 

[CheapMom]

Disney's generosity...

I don't think they are just doing this out of the goodness of their heart.

 

[Pedler]

This is what I got from the current brochure cut and pasted from the PDF. This is the 2006 MYW Dinning brochure right from the web site: http://adisneyworld.disney.go.com/m...gespecific/eng/nontheme/tickets/MYWDining.pdf

Number of Meals During Your Package Stay
The Disney Dining Plan includes one (1) Quick Service Meal, one (1) Snack, and one (1)
Table Service Meal per person, per night of your package stay for everyone in the party
ages 3+. For example, a party of 4 staying for 5 nights would receive 20 Quick Service
Meals, 20 Snacks and 20 Table Service meals to use during their package stay.

This in essence is just telling you how many credits that you get per person per night stay in your party. Note that there isn't anything about adult / child credits.

Immediately after that section it says:

Using Your Meals
Use your meals and snacks in any order and in any amount throughout your
package stay until your total is depleted.
For example, on the day of arrival your party could use four (4) Quick Service
meals, and then on day 2 your party could use four (4) Table Service Meals, four
(4) Quick Service Meals, and two (2) Snacks. You can continue using meals any
way you like for the rest of your package stay until the number of meals/snacks
are depleted.

Note the highlighted part. It says nothing about adult / children credits or how they are used. It actually says use anyway you like.

So then I searched the brochure for the text "3-9". It is located in 3 places. These are when talking about CS, TS and Signature restaurants. There is simple says in a seperate block of text:

Guests ages 3-9 must order from the child’s menu where available.

Which I take to mean that when a guest 3-9 uses a credit they must order from the kids menu. It does not mean that they have to use a credit to buy a meal or that there are adult / children credits. This is further demonstrated in the implementation of the plan.

 

[tinkerbeth]

I can't believe this thread is still going but it's highly entertaining.

 

[lark]

Wow, this one seems so easy to me that I'm surprised there is such a debate.

The brochure seems obvious to me.

Moreover, the reality is that when someone on the dining plan pulls out their wallet to come out of pocket to pay for a meal -- even just a kid's meal -- it's a boondoggle for Disney. They asbolutely love it, and they'll take the $9 any single day. Even if means that you've preserved a credit that could be used later for a $40 meal. Remember, the COST to disney of a $40 meal on the menu is very modest -- far less than $40. Ten dollars cash, on the other hand, is ten dollars cash. In fact, the marginal extra cost to disney is very modest on the whole thing -- the cost of restaurants is in the overhead and stuff that they already have to pay for. The cost of the food is nothing to them. Figuring out what "common sense" dictates disney would prefer by looking at the cash price of an item on the menu is completely fallacious. Now, if Disney were convinced that if you used that credit for the child instead of coming out of pocket you'd go and buy that $40 meal with your cash, they'd probably care a lot more. But you wouldn't, and they know that. Even if child credits were used only for children and adults only for adults, you would never eat the same meals and pay cash that you eat using the credits once your credits have expired. (Or at least most wouldn't.) Disney gets the bird-in-the-hand concept. If you want to come out of pocket for an additional meal even though you have the dining plan, they are more than happy to oblige, even if it's what seems like a relatively modest amount like $10, because the steak you get at the concourse steakhouse with the credit you saved, doesn't cost them a whole lot more and heck, you might even go home with the credit unused.

Here's what disney cares about: Is what you've paid for the dining plan, plus the money you come out of pocket to pay for meals while you're there (including kid's meals for kids to not use credits) greater than what you would spend if you didn't have the dining plan? They don't care about what you actually get and its menu price, just how many of your dollars they otherwise would have gotten. (It's different with free dining, but same principal -- just substitute how much they would otherwise discount your room or package but for free dining to try to attract you to the resort.)

But more than all this, on the moral issue, this is not one of those relationships where we're talking about one party taking advantage of another in a weaker position. Disney is a big for-profit company that understands the ins and outs of these things better than any of us does. It's a completely arms-length transaction. Using refillable mugs at the wrong place is stealing. Transferring no-transfer passes is stealing. Sneaking a fifth member into the room is stealing. These are all easy. But so is this one. Whenever you're talking about the "spirit" or the "intent" or the "common sense" of a rule at disney that doesn't prohibit something, I think you're just looking for a morality issue where one doesn't exist.

 

[Enna]

Gosh, with the free dining promo, the misappropriation of child credits for adult use is almost a moot point. There's only an $11 price difference between the one-day child base ticket ($52) and the one-day adult base ticket ($63) required to get the free dining. I priced out a 5 day stay at a value resort and one day base ticket for 2 adults and 2 children (ages 4, 5) and the same stay with 2 children (ages 11, 11), and the difference was less than $23.

How many of us would be willing to pay that $22 or $23 to not have this debate?

 

[pedro2112]

Excellent points Lark. In addition, for every TS credit "saved", there are two out of pocket meals paid for the kids..... while you are still paying 10 bucks a day for the child.

 

[dandave]

How many of us would be willing to pay that $22 or $23 to not have this debate?

Me!! I paid the extra $11-$12 for a one day base ticket to have my 9 year old registered as 10 years old. He turns 10 only 5 days after we leave, anyway. This way he can order whatever he wants. He very rarely orders anything off of the children's menu, even we we are paying OOP without DDP.

 

[vellamint]

Here's what disney cares about: Is what you've paid for the dining plan, plus the money you come out of pocket to pay for meals while you're there (including kid's meals for kids to not use credits) greater than what you would spend if you didn't have the dining plan? They don't care about what you actually get and its menu price, just how many of your dollars they otherwise would have gotten. (It's different with free dining, but same principal -- just substitute how much they would otherwise discount your room or package but for free dining to try to attract you to the resort.)

Excellent point...I know I gave up a room discount = to about $18 a night x 2 rooms x 5 nights.

I had intended to purchase my tickets from Ticketmania for an additional $700.

So I guess this promotion is not really "free" for me but a prepaid food discount.

I am getting something out of it and so are they. (But I think I am getting more .. lol)

 

[dandave]

I'm only losing out on $60 -$75 worth of AP room discounts total by booking a Value resort. In exchange for that, I'm getting $456 worth of free DDP.
I feel so used!!

 

[lark]

I'm only losing out on $60 -$75 worth of AP room discounts total by booking a Value resort. In exchange for that, I'm getting $456 worth of free DDP.
I feel so used!!

Maybe, but maybe not. Disney isn't into charity. They offer free dining (and other promotions) because they have unsold rooms and they want bodies in the world to spend money. If it wasn't free dining, they'd be offering something else -- like deeper room only discounts, or free hoppers and plus features, etc. Or maybe they'd be putting that money they're spending on giving away free dining into keeping parks open later or new attractions or other things like the food and win festival to get more people in the hotels.

It's really impossible to know what free dining is truly "costing" us in terms of missed discounts or opportunities. That said, it's surely correct that the relative value of free dining is way higher at value resorts.

Still, there are two very important concepts that you have to distinguish for "morality" threads like this one: (1) how much the free dining plan saves us, and (2) how much the dining plan costs disney. These numbers are very very far apart. The fact that someone can use 4 days of credits to eat $500 worth of food (by the menu value) doesn't mean it costs disney anything like that. And also, the fact that one gets $446 worth of a free dining plan, only saves a person that much if he or she was planning on getting the dining anyway. If not, it could be more or less.

 

[dandave]

I see what you're saying. It really doesn't matter what it costs WDW in terms of the value to me, however. The value of a $7 burger to me, is $7. It doesn't matter at all that it may have cost WDW only $1 for that burger. I couldn't get it for less than $7.
Our family of 4 spends normally $125 - $150 a day while at WDW. So, even though I wasn't planning on getting the DDP, I am in fact saving about that much.

 

[disneymom3]

Here's what disney cares about: Is what you've paid for the dining plan, plus the money you come out of pocket to pay for meals while you're there (including kid's meals for kids to not use credits) greater than what you would spend if you didn't have the dining plan? They don't care about what you actually get and its menu price, just how many of your dollars they otherwise would have gotten. (It's different with free dining, but same principal -- just substitute how much they would otherwise discount your room or package but for free dining to try to attract you to the resort.)

But more than all this, on the moral issue, this is not one of those relationships where we're talking about one party taking advantage of another in a weaker position. Disney is a big for-profit company that understands the ins and outs of these things better than any of us does. It's a completely arms-length transaction. Using refillable mugs at the wrong place is stealing. Transferring no-transfer passes is stealing. Sneaking a fifth member into the room is stealing. These are all easy. But so is this one. Whenever you're talking about the "spirit" or the "intent" or the "common sense" of a rule at disney that doesn't prohibit something, I think you're just looking for a morality issue where one doesn't exist.

For your first point, in my case, WDW is making oh, about $1600 more off of me than they would have without free dining. Since this trip was not actually supposed to happen for at least another year!

For your second point, I totally agree and have said so before. The idea that the DIS morality police have to keep an eye on Disney's bottom line is ludicrous (sp?) People are all up in arms that this behavior will cause WDW to change the program and yet how many years have they had refillable mugs and for how many years have people been abusing that system. Sorry folks, but WDW knows what they are doing and already had it figured out looooonnnng before you did.

 

[wdwobsessed]

Ok.... if you feel the need to flame me after reading this... flame away.

If one adult and 1 child (3-9) stay 3 nights and purchase the dining plan, you are entitiled to 3 adult TS and 3 child TS ( and 3 CS and 3 snacks) THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE ENTITLED TO.... not 4 adult TS, not 5 adult TS, not 6 adult TS. This is a quote from the WDW site.

If you go to the PDF explaining the Dining plan on the WDW site .... it DOES NOT explain it that way at ALL! In fact it shows you on a little chart # of days x number of people x 1ts = your parties total ts credits. THEY pool it in thier own explination. If you keep reading it goes on to say "for example IF all 4 people in your party use one TS credit your party would have 16 credits left" Furthermore it continues that you "can use your credits any way you like" ...

HELLO????? You there???

HMMMMMM .... oddly enough on my December trip at the bottom of EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY RECIEPTS it said:

Total TS credits left - XX
Total CS credits left - XX

Come on now ... Disney is a money making machine. Do you really think if they didn't INTEND for these to be pooled ... they would have it set up in the system that way??? You act like poor WDW does not have the recources to make it REALLY child credits and adult credits! I'm sorry but if they didn't INTEND for them to be POOLED ... they wouldn't POOL them!!!

Also if it's FREE how are you stealing? ROTFLMAO. I am not paying for anyone's meal ... does that mean I should not order steak because ordering something expensive is "wrong."

Obviously the Dining costs Disney a MINIMAL amount of money or they would not be offering it free again.

They are rolling in the money while we are rolling out the door with stuffed bellies.


WDWO