The Intersection of FIRE and Disney

[QueenIsabella]

I could see holding out with a 7 figure retirement account, but someone with 8 figures could easily pay for their own healthcare. I'm frugal, but I do not understand that.
Reminds me a bit of those retirement seminars where they try to convince you that you need to hide all your assets in trust schemes so you can get the taxpayers to pay for your nursing home care. Personally I find that immoral, if I had that much money I could just pay for my own care.

This is a hotly debated subject on Bogleheads. It blows my mind, how many people ask, "How can I save my dad's $5M estate so I can inherit it, rather than wasting it all on useless medical care?" (or something along those lines). Seriously, Dude? Your father worked and saved all his life for his end-of-life comfort, NOT to enrich you! Not to mention, Dad's going to get much higher quality care as a paying customer, versus in a Medicaid bed, in most cases. I truly don't get it--if my parents or in-laws had needed to spend down their savings to have quality medical care in the end, I would have been fine with it.

 

[gottalovepluto]

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[RamblingMad]

I could see holding out with a 7 figure retirement account, but someone with 8 figures could easily pay for their own healthcare. I'm frugal, but I do not understand that.
Reminds me a bit of those retirement seminars where they try to convince you that you need to hide all your assets in trust schemes so you can get the taxpayers to pay for your nursing home care. Personally I find that immoral, if I had that much money I could just pay for my own care.

The deductibles are high, and coverage is hit or miss. They prefer their employer health insurance that covers their existing doctor. No one wants to change doctors after seeing the same person for over a decade.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

I could see holding out with a 7 figure retirement account, but someone with 8 figures could easily pay for their own healthcare. I'm frugal, but I do not understand that.
Reminds me a bit of those retirement seminars where they try to convince you that you need to hide all your assets in trust schemes so you can get the taxpayers to pay for your nursing home care. Personally I find that immoral, if I had that much money I could just pay for my own care.

I go back and forth on that due to the fact that the medical industry is highly immoral in it's billing for services. Two wrongs don't make a right but they're essentially ruining the middle class as medical debt is the leading cause of bankruptcy.

Your father worked and saved all his life for his end-of-life comfort, NOT to enrich you!

What if the father's wishes is to leave the money to the family instead of spending it on medical expenses?

The deductibles are high, and coverage is hit or miss. They prefer their employer health insurance that covers their existing doctor. No one wants to change doctors after seeing the same person for over a decade.

A 10 million dollar account even at a very conservative withdrawal rate of 3% is 300k per year. Unless you have a pet killer whale you should room in that budget to cover health insurance and deductibles.

 

[RamblingMad]

A 10 million dollar account even at a very conservative withdrawal rate of 3% is 300k per year. Unless you have a pet killer whale you should room in that budget to cover health insurance and deductibles.

That’s not a lot of money. You get one 40% market drop and you’re down while withdrawing. Or you can put it all in short term Treasuries and yank out 1.5% today if the Fed doesn’t drop rates.

Most asset classes are expensive. So with a level of uncertainty, why risk expensive healthcare costs when you can keep working?

 

[QueenIsabella]

What if the father's wishes is to leave the money to the family instead of spending it on medical expenses?

Fine. Take care of your father yourself, then. Don't expect taxpayers to pick up the tab when he has assets. If he chooses to refuse medical care, that's his prerogative, assuming he's of sound mind. And in the cases I was talking about, it's not the elderly father who is refusing to pay for his own care, it's his children who don't want to lose out on any inheritance money.

Keep in mind, too, that your children are watching you. How do you want them to treat you when you're the elderly parent in need of care?

 

[RamblingMad]

Fine. Take care of your father yourself, then. Don't expect taxpayers to pick up the tab when he has assets. If he chooses to refuse medical care, that's his prerogative, assuming he's of sound mind. And in the cases I was talking about, it's not the elderly father who is refusing to pay for his own care, it's his children who don't want to lose out on any inheritance money.

Keep in mind, too, that your children are watching you. How do you want them to treat you when you're the elderly parent in need of care?

If you’re paying for Medicare, why wouldn’t you expect to be able to use it? Why is everyone so worried about tax dollars? There are countries with higher tax rates, where healthcare is covered. Healthcare is 19% of GDP in the US. It’s 9% in Europe. That blows my mind.

Please raise my taxes and cover my healthcare. This is better than giving me dollars with a lower tax rate and charging me double for healthcare.

 

[georgina]

That’s not a lot of money. You get one 40% market drop and you’re down while withdrawing. Or you can put it all in short term Treasuries and yank out 1.5% today if the Fed doesn’t drop rates.

Most asset classes are expensive. So with a level of uncertainty, why risk expensive healthcare costs when you can keep working?

Your original post sounded like they wanted to retire, but were only still working for healthcare. I think if you have $10 million or more, it (healthcare costs) shouldn't really be an impediment to retiring. They can get a healthcare policy, even oif it costs them $2000 a month they can afford it. Seriously, if they had that much money they should have some safe investments like fixed annuities.

If you’re paying for Medicare, why wouldn’t you expect to be able to use it? Why is everyone so worried about tax dollars? There are countries with higher tax rates, where healthcare is covered. Healthcare is 19% of GDP in the US. It’s 9% in Europe. That blows my mind.

Please raise my taxes and cover my healthcare. This is better than giving me dollars with a lower tax rate and charging me double for healthcare.

Medicare and medicaid are 2 different things. Medicare is great for healthcare, my DH is now on it. Medicare nursing home care is very limited. Becoming legally indigent so Medicaid pays for your nursing home is NOT an ideal situation at all.

https://www.elderlawanswers.com/medicares-limited-nursing-home-coverage-6705
I do want to emphasize that my comments on the super rich trying to hide assets apply only to those types. It can be a real problem for middle income families if one spouse has to go into long term care, for those folks some of those trust schemes may save the healthy spouse from losing their home. Unfortunately the people who could most benefit often do not have the information they need ahead of time.

 

[ThistleMae]

My understanding is, if you need to access nursing home care, after a certain number of days, which Medicare pays for, the further expenses are on you, and will come out of any money you have.

 

[RamblingMad]

Anyone else looking at the sell off and thinking about asset allocation? I have treasury bills maturing this week. Trying to decide if I want to roll them over or buy some risk. I’m thinking about increasing my REIT allocation. So I might use some proceeds to buy REITs, and use the rest to buy some more short term Treasuries.

 

[disfanforlife]

I just found this thread. I have been chasing FIRE. Planning to retire in the next 2-5 years maximum. I wanted to wait until our youngest was done with college which he will be by then and our other goal was to retire before 60. Look forward to reading more here for ideas.

 

[RamblingMad]

I just found this thread. I have been chasing FIRE. Planning to retire in the next 2-5 years maximum. I wanted to wait until our youngest was done with college which he will be by then and our other goal was to retire before 60. Look forward to reading more here for ideas.

What’s your healthcare plan? That’s where I struggle with the retire early part.

 

[disfanforlife]

What’s your healthcare plan? That’s where I struggle with the retire early part.

I don't know - I haven't looked into that yet. A bit more about us. We just sold our business a few months ago. We are still working in our same jobs for the new owners. We have health insurance through the company for now - nothing when we stop working. We also for the first time have 401Ks which we are planning to put the maximum amount in now. In the past, we put in the maximum amount in IRAs and also saved and invested in stocks. We are a bit unsure right now of how long we want to work or need to. We plan to stay on as long as we are happy for a few years. I will have a better idea once we pay our taxes this year.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

That’s not a lot of money. You get one 40% market drop and you’re down while withdrawing. Or you can put it all in short term Treasuries and yank out 1.5% today if the Fed doesn’t drop rates.

Most asset classes are expensive. So with a level of uncertainty, why risk expensive healthcare costs when you can keep working?

If a solid 300k per year in withdrawals is "not a lot of money" than we need to hang out more often.

Just to get an idea regarding how much 10 million is I ran an experiment. 2% interest (CD/saving account for ultra safe guaranteed returns) with 25k monthly withdrawals gives a person just over 55 years before the account is completely drained. Ratchet up the returns slightly and you can imagine what it does to that time span.

Fine. Take care of your father yourself, then. Don't expect taxpayers to pick up the tab when he has assets. If he chooses to refuse medical care, that's his prerogative, assuming he's of sound mind. And in the cases I was talking about, it's not the elderly father who is refusing to pay for his own care, it's his children who don't want to lose out on any inheritance money.

Keep in mind, too, that your children are watching you. How do you want them to treat you when you're the elderly parent in need of care?

There are a lot of sources for funding of medical care before the taxpayer. My MIL had a stroke and spent 3 weeks in the hospital... walked out with a $0 bill as the hospital wrote it off (she's legitimately destitute by her own poor choices).

As I said previously, our current medical system's billing model is highly immoral so I have a really tough time bringing morals into a discussion around paying for it. If we had a system where patients were empowered to see pricing before services rendered, hospitals billed proper amounts and insurance paid the full billed amount I would be on board that everyone should be paying. Until then? Learn the rules and play the game better than anyone else.

 

[RamblingMad]

If a solid 300k per year in withdrawals is "not a lot of money" than we need to hang out more often.

Just to get an idea regarding how much 10 million is I ran an experiment. 2% interest (CD/saving account for ultra safe guaranteed returns) with 25k monthly withdrawals gives a person just over 55 years before the account is completely drained. Ratchet up the returns slightly and you can imagine what it does to that time span.

You can’t leave $19 million in a bank account or CD. They’re only insured up to $250k. Just saying.

 

[BrightScouter]

Howdy everyone. First post might be kind of convoluted.

We have never been on the FIRE wagon directly, but about 5 years or so ago decided we needed to get out of debt and found Uncle Dave. We didn’t follow him totally, but it helped change our lifestyle so we could get out of debt. We have always put enough into what ever company retirement was available to get the total match. We are now both 60. We have one son on his own and one that is a professional student. He knows he needs to be self-supporting very soon and is working on that.

We still owe on our house and won’t get it paid off before retirement. But this is where we differ from most on here. We plan to sell the house and become gypsies. We are going to travel the country in an RV. We have camped all of our lives. Boy Scouts, tents, trailers, motorhomes. We have never owned a 5th wheel, but that’s what we think we want. Plan is to buy a used truck and used 5th wheel this spring and try it out. If I can buy a used truck and find someplace to rent a 5th wheel, I will. Weeklong and long weekend trips this year. Then, a year or so from now, we plan to retire and head out for a 3 – 6-month trip. If we are still married at the end of that, we know it’s for us. We will come home and sell the house. We do believe we have enough in our retirement accounts to retire comfortably.

Now come the questions. Almost all our savings is in retirement accounts. We have about $40k in cash accounts. We need to decide how to spend that wisely. I can use Cobra for 18 months after retirement, but that won’t get us to Medicare. We will probably have to buy insurance on the exchange. We have never had an HSA available to us. Now if we use the cash to pay expenses until we get to 65 and just take out some money from our retirement, our income is low enough we would qualify for some subsidies. So if we want to do that, we would have to buy a truck and RV with a loan. When the time comes that we sell the house, our equity could/would pay those loans off. That is our current plan.

With that in mind, is there anything y’all think we should do other than just sock away as much cash as we possibly can this year? I don’t see any advantage to paying extra on the mortgage or putting a higher percentage in the retirement accounts. And I sure can’t see the benefit of buying a truck with the cash.

You can be harsh, let me hear it.

Thanks!

 

[RamblingMad]

Howdy everyone. First post might be kind of convoluted.

We have never been on the FIRE wagon directly, but about 5 years or so ago decided we needed to get out of debt and found Uncle Dave. We didn’t follow him totally, but it helped change our lifestyle so we could get out of debt. We have always put enough into what ever company retirement was available to get the total match. We are now both 60. We have one son on his own and one that is a professional student. He knows he needs to be self-supporting very soon and is working on that.

We still owe on our house and won’t get it paid off before retirement. But this is where we differ from most on here. We plan to sell the house and become gypsies. We are going to travel the country in an RV. We have camped all of our lives. Boy Scouts, tents, trailers, motorhomes. We have never owned a 5th wheel, but that’s what we think we want. Plan is to buy a used truck and used 5th wheel this spring and try it out. If I can buy a used truck and find someplace to rent a 5th wheel, I will. Weeklong and long weekend trips this year. Then, a year or so from now, we plan to retire and head out for a 3 – 6-month trip. If we are still married at the end of that, we know it’s for us. We will come home and sell the house. We do believe we have enough in our retirement accounts to retire comfortably.

Now come the questions. Almost all our savings is in retirement accounts. We have about $40k in cash accounts. We need to decide how to spend that wisely. I can use Cobra for 18 months after retirement, but that won’t get us to Medicare. We will probably have to buy insurance on the exchange. We have never had an HSA available to us. Now if we use the cash to pay expenses until we get to 65 and just take out some money from our retirement, our income is low enough we would qualify for some subsidies. So if we want to do that, we would have to buy a truck and RV with a loan. When the time comes that we sell the house, our equity could/would pay those loans off. That is our current plan.

With that in mind, is there anything y’all think we should do other than just sock away as much cash as we possibly can this year? I don’t see any advantage to paying extra on the mortgage or putting a higher percentage in the retirement accounts. And I sure can’t see the benefit of buying a truck with the cash.

You can be harsh, let me hear it.

Thanks!

You’re basically moving into a tiny house. What’s your budget to maintain the trailer and truck? Where does your mail go?

 

[BrightScouter]

You’re basically moving into a tiny house. What’s your budget to maintain the trailer and truck? Where does your mail go?

Our planned budget is around $60k/year. This should cover everything on the road. There are several companies that will give a permanent mailing address that allows you to set up your residency in that state. The three best states for RV residency are South Dakota, Texas and Florida. Finding insurance that covers us nationwide until we hit medicare is tricky.

 

[RamblingMad]

Our planned budget is around $60k/year. This should cover everything on the road. There are several companies that will give a permanent mailing address that allows you to set up your residency in that state. The three best states for RV residency are South Dakota, Texas and Florida. Finding insurance that covers us nationwide until we hit medicare is tricky.

My significant other buys through the exchange. It’s pretty terrible. But it’s even worse if I add her to mine. I got so fed up with health insurance providers that I have started to invest in United Healthcare. We need a better system.

The problem you’re going to run into is that a lot of the plans are state specific. You’ll have limited options while on the road.

 

[BrightScouter]

Pretty much what we are planning on. I am hoping I could pay out of pocket and send in for a reimbursement. It is what at least makes me consider COBRA for the first 18 months. There is a company/person that works specifically with RV families to find the best insurance based on what they feel they need and where they choose to domicile in. So I plan to talk to them this year.

Putting money in cash for the next year and taking a loan for the two purchases until we sell our house is the bigger worry to me. I hate loans, but I think it makes more sense to have cash to live off of so we might be able to qualify for a subsidy.