The Rumors Are True! Goodbye River Country and TCD Barn!

[DisCamper]

This is not new info we already talked about it. The info used came from this Camping Board.

 

[chartle]

Think about it -- a resort needs a themed swimming area...River Country is already there! Why level it and start anew when it's already built and already has a built-in fanbase?

Because even if RC was in "move in condition" they would have to do a major rebuild to get it up to today's standards and I'm not even talking about the lake water issue, which of course is huge. It mostly has to do with the overall design and liability.

• They would have to remove the rocks from the sides of the main pool and paint NO DIVING all around the pool. No Insurance company would allow you to have any thing that encourages head first diving no matter how deep the pool.
  
• I remember most or all of the body slides dumped you into 8 feet of water so they would have to be reworked.
  
• The natural bottom of the lagoon would have to be all concrete and not much sand to keep the filters clean.
  
• Also the water would have to be crystal clear so the life guards can see the bottom.

Basically everything that made RC unique would be gone. Also it would be so much easier to start over.

They may put some sort of "water park" there for the DVC report. They may even call it River Country but its going to look like Storm Along Bay with a "country feel" not at all like the real thing.

 

[Lil' Lisa]

This is not new info we already talked about it. The info used came from this Camping Board.

The prospect of resurrecting River Country hasn't... Well, not as anything more than wishful thinking anyhow.

 

[takeme2epcot]

This is not new info we already talked about it. The info used came from this Camping Board.

Ah, well, keep in mind I'm new around here, so maybe I missed the discussion. But the only discussion I found was the one where TCD posted his findings from the cast member who said RC would be leveled to make way for the new DVC. Didn't see any mention that RC would be possibly absorbed by the new DVC.

I then Googled and found that article in the Orlando Business Journal. I didn't find it here on this board. But if that article has been posted earlier by someone else, I apologize.

Oh, thanks for the warm welcome, by the way!

 

[WDW1979]

I remember most or all of the body slides dumped you into 8 feet of water so they would have to be reworked.

I remember the deep water off the water slides at River Country. Not a problem when I went there as an adult in 1997, but when I went as an 11 yr old kid in 1979 it was a surprise when the River Country slide dumped me into deep water. I could just barely swim at that age and since I was expecting to be able to touch the bottom, it was a bit of a shock for 11yr old me when the bottom was so deep down.

 

[chartle]

I remember the deep water off the water slides at River Country. Not a problem when I went there as an adult in 1997, but when I went as an 11 yr old kid it was a surprise when the River Country slide dumped me into deep water. I could just barely swim at that age and since I was expecting to be able to touch the bottom, it was a bit of a shock for 11yr old me when the bottom was so deep down.

I first went when I was maybe 15 or 16 so it wasn't a big deal. The second time I was with my two sons 6 and 8 and it was a major ordeal. I would have to go ahead and then tread water waiting for them so I could push them to the rope that defined the splash area.

At TL and BB the splash pools are maybe at the most 3 feet deep and are much easier to handle.

 

[Tri-circle-D]

Because even if RC was in "move in condition" they would have to do a major rebuild to get it up to today's standards and I'm not even talking about the lake water issue, which of course is huge. It mostly has to do with the overall design and liability.

• They would have to remove the rocks from the sides of the main pool and paint NO DIVING all around the pool. No Insurance company would allow you to have any thing that encourages head first diving no matter how deep the pool.
  
• I remember most or all of the body slides dumped you into 8 feet of water so they would have to be reworked.
  
• The natural bottom of the lagoon would have to be all concrete and not much sand to keep the filters clean.
  
• Also the water would have to be crystal clear so the life guards can see the bottom.

Basically everything that made RC unique would be gone. Also it would be so much easier to start over.

They may put some sort of "water park" there for the DVC report. They may even call it River Country but its going to look like Storm Along Bay with a "country feel" not at all like the real thing.

Those are all very good points. I really don't think that there is anything in River Country that could be rehabilitated and used. And River Country is nowhere close to being in "move in condition," in fact, it is quite the opposite: the decayed condition of what is left pretty much seals the deal.

I could see them paying tribute to River Country- like the painting of Mr. Toad in the Winnie the Pooh Ride, or the Nautilus outline on the tree in the Pooh Playground, but I just don't think there is any attraction in there that could be salvaged.

Ah, well, keep in mind I'm new around here, so maybe I missed the discussion. But the only discussion I found was the one where TCD posted his findings from the cast member who said RC would be leveled to make way for the new DVC. Didn't see any mention that RC would be possibly absorbed by the new DVC.

I then Googled and found that article in the Orlando Business Journal. I didn't find it here on this board. But if that article has been posted earlier by someone else, I apologize.

Oh, thanks for the warm welcome, by the way!

Ah, don't mind Discamper.

That was a warm welcome from him.

Thank you for posting this information here.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who appreciates it.

That article was cited in a post in a previous thread about this rumor. You can find the thread here:

A new rumor!

And the post here:

Post 200

Now, here is something interesting.

This Orlando Business Journal is like a wiki-newspaper or something.

Because the detail that you refer to was not in the article when it was first posted. I guess the "journalists" go back and add stuff to their articles after the fact.

Strange.

But, thanks for the link, because I wouldn't have known that the article was amended if you hadn't.

And, it is possible that there will be a waterpark component to this new resort. The AKL DVC has a pretty nice little waterpark. Emphasis on the little. That is why I don't put a lot of hope on thinking that whatever is constructed there will bear any resemblance to River Country.

I remember the deep water off the water slides at River Country. Not a problem when I went there as an adult in 1997, but when I went as an 11 yr old kid it was a surprise when the River Country slide dumped me into deep water. I could just barely swim at that age and since I was expecting to be able to touch the bottom, it was a bit of a shock for 11yr old me when the bottom was so deep down.

True. I remember when I first took my DD on these slides, and how surprised I was that I couldn't even touch the bottom there. There is no way an insurance company would allow anything like that to operate now.

TCD

 

[takeme2epcot]

They would have to remove the rocks from the sides of the main pool and paint NO DIVING all around the pool. No Insurance company would allow you to have any thing that encourages head first diving no matter how deep the pool.

I remember most or all of the body slides dumped you into 8 feet of water so they would have to be reworked.

The natural bottom of the lagoon would have to be all concrete and not much sand to keep the filters clean.

Also the water would have to be crystal clear so the life guards can see the bottom.

While I agree that all these things are certainly not trivial, they are in no way insurmountable, especially for Disney.

Those are all very good points. I really don't think that there is anything in River Country that could be rehabilitated and used. And River Country is nowhere close to being in "move in condition," in fact, it is quite the opposite: the decayed condition of what is left pretty much seals the deal.

I've not given up hope. You know, they said the same exact things about the historic old Hialeah Racetrack that had been abandoned and left to decay for many, many years. To the casual observer, the place was a rotting ghost town with decaying buildings, collapsed roofs, a center pond full of scum, and a track that had been overcome by weeds and scrub brush.

Guess what?

Hialeah Park is open and horses are running there again. There are plans to open up a casino.

It's amazing what civil engineers can do...and in very short order.

 

[HockeyKat]

Interesting. I am really enjoying this discussion.

takeme2epcot, thanks for the article and welcome!! I am not a DIS newbie but definitely a newbie to this forum, so my welcome might not mean much.

True. I remember when I first took my DD on these slides, and how surprised I was that I couldn't even touch the bottom there. There is no way an insurance company would allow anything like that to operate now.

TCD

I think that they might have allowed it to operate if it had remained in continuous operation since build date, but I would bet money that they won't allow them to refurb and reopen like that.

We have a semi-local Wet N Wild that has a few questionable-by-today's-standards attractions that are still in operation, including one much like the one in question above, that drops you from a good 6-8 feet into deep water.

I don't think they would be able to build the "lazy river" at SAB, today. Too deep.

They might be able to restore the old pool there, since the structure is already there? Hard to say, though, since so many years have passed.


I think have a small waterpark, like a themed SAB, would be awesome, but I sure hope they build something bigger than Kidani Village, and it would be cool to either charge admission or open it to all WL/FW/new resort guests rather than just DVC.

 

[Tri-circle-D]

They might be able to restore the old pool there, since the structure is already there? Hard to say, though, since so many years have passed.

There was only one pool in River Country. The rest of the attraction used "filtered" water from Bay Lake.

This is what the pool looks like today:

This is the top of the slide, where guests would get in the water to slide down:

Some more views of the pool:

I would say that all of the rocks would have to go.

And, clearly, they wouldn't have guests using slides like those any more.

And, the depth of the pool would have to be decreased (note that it was 10' deep under the slides), like they did for the FW main pool.

By the time they got done with all of that, why not just start from scratch?

I think have a small waterpark, like a themed SAB, would be awesome, but I sure hope they build something bigger than Kidani Village, and it would be cool to either charge admission or open it to all WL/FW/new resort guests rather than just DVC.

Now, this I would like. A waterpark open to just guests of the Wilderness Region.

But, I can't believe that would ever happen.

TCD

 

[Shan-man]

Ok, I have a new theory. Suppose that the reason Disney accounting knows nothing of the new project is because, like so many things of late, Disney is farming it out. The new super-premium sites will be built and maintained by Outdoor Resorts, who has scads of experience in the time-share RV resort business. Hey, it's a theory!

As for River Country, I agree, the thing is toast and would need such radical redesign it would make more sense to just start over. I would not be surprised to see them do some small homage to RC in the new development, though. Perhaps the repainted water wagon will finally reappear! Don't forget what they did in homage to the Fort Wilderness Railroad when they redid the Fort pool. It would nice to see another nod to the Fort's history... even if the logo wasn't historical!

 

[takeme2epcot]

Ok, I have a new theory. Suppose that the reason Disney accounting knows nothing of the new project is because, like so many things of late, Disney is farming it out. The new super-premium sites will be built and maintained by Outdoor Resorts, who has scads of experience in the time-share RV resort business. Hey, it's a theory!

The new DVC is going to be a hotel not a campground, isn't it?

 

[HockeyKat]

The new DVC is going to be a hotel not a campground, isn't it?

I don't think anyone has any idea, really. Right now all of it is speculation.

It would be nice to maybe have a mix, so that DVC has the option for a point-based campground? Like a mix of cabins and campgrounds, and maybe tie in a bit of resort to the WL side, and be able to walk through from WL to FW along the lake.

 

[LONE-STAR]

They could maybe salvage the pool. It must be cheaper to redo a existing pool then to start from scratch because they already did it at the fort. As long as it has not floated up and it looks like they have kept water in it. May just need to be resurfaced which then they could make it shallow.

 

[Tri-circle-D]

Ok, I have a new theory. Suppose that the reason Disney accounting knows nothing of the new project is because, like so many things of late, Disney is farming it out. The new super-premium sites will be built and maintained by Outdoor Resorts, who has scads of experience in the time-share RV resort business. Hey, it's a theory!

As for River Country, I agree, the thing is toast and would need such radical redesign it would make more sense to just start over. I would not be surprised to see them do some small homage to RC in the new development, though. Perhaps the repainted water wagon will finally reappear! Don't forget what they did in homage to the Fort Wilderness Railroad when they redid the Fort pool. It would nice to see another nod to the Fort's history... even if the logo wasn't historical!

You might be on to something with the old RC wagon. Why the heck is it still sitting behind the Settlement TP?

I can't imagine that Disney would let a third party operate anything this close to WL and FW. The Golden Oaks project is situated in a way that FW guests will not have any contact with it. I just can't see them letting a third party take over the space here.

I don't think anyone has any idea, really. Right now all of it is speculation.

It would be nice to maybe have a mix, so that DVC has the option for a point-based campground? Like a mix of cabins and campgrounds, and maybe tie in a bit of resort to the WL side, and be able to walk through from WL to FW along the lake.

I agree that whatever is built here is going to have to have some sort of Wilderness theme, and fit in with WL and FW. From what I understand, there are no Grand Villas (I think that is the correct term) at VWL. At the Vero Beach, DVC, for example, there are small, stand alone cottages that families can rent. I think they sleep up to 10 guests. There might be demand for something like that here.

They could maybe salvage the pool. It must be cheaper to redo a existing pool then to start from scratch because they already did it at the fort. As long as it has not floated up and it looks like they have kept water in it. May just need to be resurfaced which then they could make it shallow.

I agree that they could salvage it if they wanted to. But why bother? That would mean they would have to design the new project around the pool. It would be better to start with a clean slate.

TCD

 

[Shan-man]

I can't imagine that Disney would let a third party operate anything this close to WL and FW.

Really? With the Four Seasons being built around the corner, the kennels being taken over by an outside service, and even some ride design being farmed out? I wouldn't be surprised to see Disney looking to hand off operations of FW en toto to an outside operator, someone who knows the camping market. As has been said recently, the Fort is kinda the red-headed step-child that Disney doesn't quite know what to do with, or how to market it. Why not farm it out, be rid of the non-conformity of the Fort, and sit back and collect their check? Not very Walt Disney-like, I'll admit, but pretty Disney-like according to the new paradigm.

 

[Tri-circle-D]

Really? With the Four Seasons being built around the corner, the kennels being taken over by an outside service, and even some ride design being farmed out? I wouldn't be surprised to see Disney looking to hand off operations of FW en toto to an outside operator, someone who knows the camping market. As has been said recently, the Fort is kinda the red-headed step-child that Disney doesn't quite know what to do with, or how to market it. Why not farm it out, be rid of the non-conformity of the Fort, and sit back and collect their check? Not very Walt Disney-like, I'll admit, but pretty Disney-like according to the new paradigm.

My point was that even though the Golden Oaks/Four Seasons project is close to the Fort, it is still separated enough that FW guests will have no direct exposure to it. Not so if a third party was to operate a resort butting up to FW.

While responding, I thought about the Swan and Dolphin. That precedent supports your speculation.

But, I am still going to say I can't believe they would let a third party in on the action here.

Wait a sec.

What about the Seminole Tribe?

How about a Native American themed casino?

That would make a buck or two, no?

TCD

 

[Shan-man]

How about Disney's first pet-friendly resort? There's an idea that could fly... especially if it is geared towards extended stays since no one wants to leave Fido at the boarder for two weeks. Complementary shuttle service for guests and pets to Best Friends.

 

[WDW1979]

How about Disney's first pet-friendly resort? There's an idea that could fly... especially if it is geared towards extended stays since no one wants to leave Fido at the boarder for two weeks. Complementary shuttle service for guests and pets to Best Friends.

I hope not, as I am not a fan of Disney vacations in proximity to the pets of other people, and I would be concerned about the peace & quiet being disturbed by periodic barking. In addition, I fear that such a resort would end up not being a human resort that is pet friendly, but effectively a pet resort that is human friendly, because some people with pets tend to push the envelope of rules relating to pets.

I can see the Disney ad now: "Bring your children to experience the magic of Disney, where they can explore a happy world of fantasy, and mingle with strangers' pit bulls."

I think that Disney's separate "Best Friends" pet resort was a good idea, as that gives people an option to bring their pets on vacation and to visit with the pets while on vacation without the people resorts having to admit pets.

For me, staying at a Disney resort hotel or campground is just as much a part of the Disney experience as the Magic Kingdom, and just as I would not want to visit the Magic Kingdom with hundreds of dogs, cats, ferrets, etc., I would prefer not to stay at a pet-friendly Disney resort. Though I suppose a pet-friendly Animal Kingdom would provide plenty of excitement for both the pets and the wild animals.

 

[terri01p]