this is such a sad sick world

[Imzadi]

Is anyone else still missing bleach at their stores? For the last few months it's been off the shelves as so many people have been buying it due to the Coronavirus. But, other than Lysol, I'm seeing most items back on the shelves, even toilet paper. But, bleach is still missing here.

Now, I'm wondering, if due to the BLM movement here, if an oppositional group is having more meetings than usual and needs the bleach. There is probably some dress code that no legitimate, card carrying member shows up to meetings wearing a dingy white sheet.

 

[Dan Murphy]

Is anyone else still missing bleach at their stores?

bleach is still missing here.

Maybe some are using it for bodily injections?

 

[Imzadi]

Maybe some are using it for bodily injections?

I forgot about that one.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

You don't want a statue go to the local government vote on it and if the vote goes in your favour remove it not just have a mob of morons pull down what they want

The government governs by the will of the governed.

 

[Jewel1310]

Please keep in mind that most of those statues were not put up before or during the civil war but 100 years later in response to the civil rights movement. Think about that. 100 years after the confederate defeat, confederate states started putting statues up to celebrate the generals of their traitor army. Why would we do this?
Why would we, as a people, allow this back then?
Why should we remain complicit with those dead strangers who came before us in protecting a past that still hurts our contemporary friends?

This! This is what brings much of the context. Imagine if during the Civil Rights Movement a statue of a confederate general was put in place, maybe even right in front of the court house. These statues cause pain because, in many instances, they were placed there by segregationists to remind them of their subordinate status.

Removing those statues is not re-writing history, but righting the telling of history. Those generals lost. The confederacy lost. Put them in a museum with the right context if need be, but as cobright so aptly wrote, "Why should we remain complicit with those dead strangers who came before us in protecting a past that still hurts our contemporary friends?"

 

[wvjules]

How's everyone's hangover today? Food and non-food? lol

kandb, how you doing? After all of the rage posting I'm hoping you are feeling ok today.

 

[Orion Nebula]

And yet, here you are.

It was a joke.

 

[mommasita]

Is anyone else still missing bleach at their stores? For the last few months it's been off the shelves as so many people have been buying it due to the Coronavirus. But, other than Lysol, I'm seeing most items back on the shelves, even toilet paper. But, bleach is still missing here.

Now, I'm wondering, if due to the BLM movement here, if an oppositional group is having more meetings than usual and needs the bleach. There is probably some dress code that no legitimate, card carrying member shows up to meetings wearing a dingy white sheet.

no, we always had bleach. And finally last night I went INTO the Pharmacy for my pills, and there were at least 100 cans of Lysol. I bought the 2 can maximum, but am glad to see it back. I may actually go back later for 2 more, as I am stocking up.

 

[goofyernmost]

Hey, if you want to worship people that left this country to establish their own separate union and killed American soldiers because they wanted to own other human beings, then make your own little temple in a spare room away from the rest of the public and not make the victims of the evil have to see it everyday of their lives. Maybe we can put a few statues of Hitler up in DC. So that we don't alter history. 80 years later we still seem to be familiar with the wonderfulness that was Adolf. Actually, having those statues of Confederate solders is in affect an effort to really distort history. They were not hero's of the United States ever, they actually fought to separate from it. People need to really think about what they support. There are a lot of things and a lot of people for the "south" to be proud of and display, Confederate Generals are not one of them.

 

[cobright]

This! This is what brings much of the context. Imagine if during the Civil Rights Movement a statue of a confederate general was put in place, maybe even right in front of the court house. These statues cause pain because, in many instances, they were placed there by segregationists to remind them of their subordinate status.

This may shed some of the approval my earlier posts have garnered, I'm actually pretty tolerant of monuments to horrible people. As long as that horrible person, amid all the horrible things horrible people do, accomplished something worth celebrating. Probably not going to convince me you like that person, and I would like to see such monuments amended with a plaque detailing their history.

It's hard to find a faultless hero... in anyone's history.
George Washington, kept slaves and even resisted manumission, even when encouraged by his abolitionist friends and colleagues. I think that as long as that truth does not get obscured, celebrating the same man's work to wrench us free from a monarchy and establish a more representative government is fair.
Christopher Columbus ... No, this guy was trash.

You don't want a statue go to the local government vote on it and if the vote goes in your favour remove it not just have a mob of morons pull down what they want

Suppose for a moment, you wake up tomorrow and your city has voted and approved the emplacement of a large statue right in front of city hall. Completely funded by private donations, the city government breaks ground on a statue showing a generic white police officer or American Soldier, crucified. It just so happens, you live in a city where the majority of your neighbors either support that anti-cop/ anti-military message or are indifferent enough to not vote against it.

What do you do? It's an appalling, violent image that you hate and perhaps even makes you feel threatened. But there it is, looking down with pained eyes every time you walk by. So you maybe peacefully protest the thing and work through legal channels to get it removed?

How many decades of this approach failing would it take before you start getting a little more tolerant of some vandal just hacking the thing down and tossing it into the ocean?

 

[PaulaSB12]

You don't tolerate a vandal at all some of the statues are of people who fought against slavery including black man having a statue. This statue destruction is not about statues its about marxism. We have had a woman shot and killed at a blm demonstration for saying all lives matter, an 8 year old child shot at another protest two teens shot one dead in chop. What is irritating is most of these actually admit not to voting so they want to change but are too lazy to even vote in that case you don't get any say in what goes on.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

You don't tolerate a vandal at all some of the statues are of people who fought against slavery including black man having a statue. This statue destruction is not about statues its about marxism. We have had a woman shot and killed at a blm demonstration for saying all lives matter, an 8 year old child shot at another protest two teens shot one dead in chop. What is irritating is most of these actually admit not to voting so they want to change but are too lazy to even vote in that case you don't get any say in what goes on.

Well that's an interesting accusation. I don't see how statue destruction is in any way related to Marxism but maybe I missed something in the foundations of that theory.

 

[Searc]

You don't tolerate a vandal at all some of the statues are of people who fought against slavery including black man having a statue. This statue destruction is not about statues its about marxism. We have had a woman shot and killed at a blm demonstration for saying all lives matter, an 8 year old child shot at another protest two teens shot one dead in chop. What is irritating is most of these actually admit not to voting so they want to change but are too lazy to even vote in that case you don't get any say in what goes on.

You moved to the US? Congratulations!

 

[NYCgrrl]

You don't tolerate a vandal at all some of the statues are of people who fought against slavery including black man having a statue. This statue destruction is not about statues its about marxism. We have had a woman shot and killed at a blm demonstration for saying all lives matter, an 8 year old child shot at another protest two teens shot one dead in chop. What is irritating is most of these actually admit not to voting so they want to change but are too lazy to even vote in that case you don't get any say in what goes on.

Well that's an interesting accusation. I don't see how statue destruction is in any way related to Marxism but maybe I missed something in the foundations of that theory.

I think Czar Nicholas II might disagree with you but I so hear you, LOL.

 

[NYCgrrl]

There ARE founding members of BLM who are self defined Marxists; think its two women. I don’t have a problem with that but some people do.

 

[goofyernmost]

You don't tolerate a vandal at all some of the statues are of people who fought against slavery including black man having a statue. This statue destruction is not about statues its about marxism. We have had a woman shot and killed at a blm demonstration for saying all lives matter, an 8 year old child shot at another protest two teens shot one dead in chop. What is irritating is most of these actually admit not to voting so they want to change but are too lazy to even vote in that case you don't get any say in what goes on.

Sometimes things are so wrong that you cannot wait for a consensus of opinion. What is wrong is wrong and nothing will change that. Not even made up, far fetched examples of things so unlikely to happen that no credit or mental time should be used to explain away. If it is wrong, get rid of it and try for something better to be there. We are talking about people that left the union and killed American solders not those the years before might have been doing wrong without thinking they were wrong. At the time of the civil war that subject had been broached many times and people made a moral decision to kill people to be able to own slaves. If you can find anything right about that, please explain it to me.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

Sometimes things are so wrong that you cannot wait for a consensus of opinion. What is wrong is wrong and nothing will change that. Not even made up, far fetched examples of things so unlikely to happen that no credit or mental time should be used to explain away. If it is wrong, get rid of it and try for something better to be there. We are talking about people that left the union and killed American solders not those the years before might have been doing wrong without thinking they were wrong. At the time of the civil war that subject had been broached many times and people made a moral decision to kill people to be able to own slaves. If you can find anything right about that, please explain it to me.

As screwed up as all of that is... it gets even worse when you dig into who funded the civil war monuments and when they were erected. Quick summary is that most were put up by the Daughters of the Confederacy in an effort to promote the "Lost Cause" theory and the number of monuments put up in a time period lines up with events in the Civil Rights movement.

Truly disgusting stain on our history as a country and the sooner they come down, the better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Daughters_of_the_Confederacyhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy

 

[cobright]

Truly disgusting stain on our history as a country and the sooner they come down, the better.

The argument that really strains my connection to the Buddha comes up, usually as some form of, "Times were different then and people thought they were doing the right thing." Something of that nature was actually in this thread's OP (I could go look ... it's right up there ... nah). As if 160-240 years ago slavery was just something everyone thought was fine. Which is bunk. Abolition was a popular political movement from the beginning of US history. Popular now in the flawed but wonderful musical about a flawed but ... well really just very flawed abolitionist A. Ham. It took Hamilton a while to come up to speed on abolition but he did, and so did a lot of people. England embraced abolition and where it could not abolish it outright, the crown purchased living slaves to free them.

The idea that this was just something that happened is a myth. It was always a divisive issue, useful for determining which side of the room had a soul.

 

[Michelleybelle]

History teacher here - can confirm that we are perfectly capable of teaching an accurate account of history without the use of statues.

 

[PaulaSB12]

Why destroy the statue of a slave who ran away and helped free other slaves? Now people are demonstrating about hakim littleman being killed after he shot at cops while they arr3sted his friend