VP Pence to host call with cruise line industry.

[spiders]

It's not about me. It's about the people I love and people I cross paths with.

Being killed in a car accident can't kill someone I love in a car accident as a repercussion. Catching COVID could (or potentially affect their health forever).

Look, arguing with me won't change my mind. You're not Canada's Health Department. I will travel when they say it's safe(r) to travel.

Like I said, you do you. I don’t really care one way or another.

 

[lanejudy]

Those of us who live in areas with travel restrictions have little or no option in the matter. Your disagreement with the restriction itself shouldn't extend to ridiculing or arguing against those who have such restrictions. We have to live with it, if you don't that's all the better for you. No need to tell me I'm wrong, I get no choice in the matter. I already know what I've missed over the past several months and what else I will be missing in coming months.

 

[GingerPilot]

Entire industries have been destroyed? The industry you are shedding tears for is going to return in some form possibly as soon as next month. And probably back to full operations sometime next year.

You have friends who have been furloughed. I know people who have lost lives.

You can choose to go to a salon, you can choose to throw away your masks, you can choose to fill up the beaches. And you can choose to jump off a cliff too. It's your life. Just don't come anywhere near our hospitals if you get sick, so we can prioritize taking care of those who choose to first take care of themselves.

It will be years, they’re saying 3-5 years, before my industry is recovered and hiring again. It isn’t happening next year much less next month unless people get out and travel for business and pleasure (but honestly, mostly business).

I dont have the luxury of being able to work from home and sit inside my home counting covid cases and deciding it’s too dangerous to leave. Back in March I got to keep my job, I got to fly and travel and haven’t stopped during this whole mess. getting out changed my perspective immediately. The world isn’t scary. You can choose to stay inside and not come out for a few years... I’m going to choose to work and vacation because I’m one of the lucky few in my industry who still has stable work. My friends are out looking for jobs as bartenders or servers after making a six figure income and having their whole careers mapped out... yeah, I’ve unfortunately known people who have died with Covid and it’s sucks but ruining living lives sucks too.

I don’t care what you do, but please don’t tell me I don’t deserve a hospital because I’m at work,

 

[Intr3pid]

My strategy is masks and social distancing. Of course I wouldn’t drive a car without brakes but I also wouldn’t throw away a mask and go fill a beach or jump off a cliff. Of course brakes and seat belts aren’t vaccines or treatments. They’re preventative measures and another preventative measure would be to not drive.

It’s funny that you told a pilot that it’s no big deal and don’t go near a hospital. If she’s flying between hot spots then she’s irresponsible but if she’s flying whatever non-essential stuff you ordered online then that’s cool. Just like all of the millions that have been going to work this entire time and figuring out how to mitigate risk.

Masks and social distancing alone are not enough. Sweden's experience is a case in point. US states without active COVID measures are a case in point. How many people actually comply?

On the other hand, countries that have had travel restrictions (along with policies around masks and social distancing) are doing much better. Forget China for a moment; look at other Asian Pacific countries. Or look at a US state such as Hawaii. Yes, you bite the bullet right now, but you are the first one to come out of it and recover once a treatment or vaccine is at hand. Your lives are safe, and your economy roars back to where it was. The mainland US, on the other hand, is in a mess right now and will take forever to come out of it unless people start taking public health seriously.

 

[Intr3pid]

It will be years, they’re saying 3-5 years, before my industry is recovered and hiring again. It isn’t happening next year much less next month unless people get out and travel for business and pleasure (but honestly, mostly business).

I dont have the luxury of being able to work from home and sit inside my home counting covid cases and deciding it’s too dangerous to leave. Back in March I got to keep my job, I got to fly and travel and haven’t stopped during this whole mess. getting out changed my perspective immediately. The world isn’t scary. You can choose to stay inside and not come out for a few years... I’m going to choose to work and vacation because I’m one of the lucky few in my industry who still has stable work. My friends are out looking for jobs as bartenders or servers after making a six figure income and having their whole careers mapped out... yeah, I’ve unfortunately known people who have died with Covid and it’s sucks but ruining living lives sucks too.

I don’t care what you do, but please don’t tell me I don’t deserve a hospital because I’m at work,

If a pandemic knocks out an industry for a year and someone loses their job for that year, it's on the pandemic. But, if a pandemic knocks out an industry for a year but a job is lost for who knows how long, it's on that job. The pandemic has simply brought to the front the reality of a changing life a lot faster. If you are a decent server or bartender, you will get back to it once things return to normal; if you don't, you need to learn a new skill.

If anyone can't tell the difference between losing life and giving up a vacation for a few months, they'd better arrange their own healthcare when they get the virus. Our scarce healthcare resources can't be set up to reward recklessness.

 

[spiders]

If a pandemic knocks out an industry for a year and someone loses their job for that year, it's on the pandemic. But, if a pandemic knocks out an industry for a year but a job is lost for who knows how long, it's on that job. The pandemic has simply brought to the front the reality of a changing life a lot faster. If you are a decent server or bartender, you will get back to it once things return to normal; if you don't, you need to learn a new skill.

If anyone can't tell the difference between losing life and giving up a vacation for a few months, they'd better arrange their own healthcare when they get the virus. Our scarce healthcare resources can't be set up to reward recklessness.

Airlines are scrapping aircraft faster than production rates. You don’t just order a new plane and it gets delivered the next day. Aircraft deliveries and retirements are planned years out in advance. Cruise lines have permanently removed dozens of ships. Those don’t just get made overnight.

And the economy isn’t going to just “roar” back.

But there’s really no point in arguing so I’ll just say I agree with you. I think actually .00002% is too risky and we should add a couple more zeros. And everyone should just get more stimulus! I mean, like a 100 trillion stimulus plan. We’ll totally pay it off later!

Until then, yeah - you may lose your job, your business, your 401k, your house but hey - you’ll be safe!

 

[AquaDame]

Clearly this thread is going off the rails again - please remember to be respectful when sharing your opinions and stay on track. If you wish to argue about the virus itself or general state of the economy please visit the community board.

 

[Intr3pid]

Airlines are scrapping aircraft faster than production rates. You don’t just order a new plane and it gets delivered the next day. Aircraft deliveries and retirements are planned years out in advance. Cruise lines have permanently removed dozens of ships. Those don’t just get made overnight.

And the economy isn’t going to just “roar” back.

But there’s really no point in arguing so I’ll just say I agree with you. I think actually .00002% is too risky and we should add a couple more zeros. And everyone should just get more stimulus! I mean, like a 100 trillion stimulus plan. We’ll totally pay it off later!

Until then, yeah - you may lose your job, your business, your 401k, your house but hey - you’ll be safe!

A maximum of 20 cruise ships have changed hands - of which about half, mostly environmentally inefficient, scrapped. Out of nearly 400 or so total around the world. You know, 5-10% inefficient capacity max. Dozens more - of bigger sizes - will be added over the next 5 years. And a similar story with the planes.

Life goes on and adapts, and we all live to fight another day.

 

[AquaDame]

^I'm going to assume you were already posting that before my request. If it continues we'll start issuing points and cleaning it up.

 

[Intr3pid]

Royal Caribbean seems to be hopeful that an announcement about a cruising restart could happen as early as this week or maybe the next:

https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/...he-cruise-ship-ban-could-be-coming-early-week
https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5661/

 

[Intr3pid]

^^ They are also considering winter cruises to Alaska and elsewhere from the west coast - incl. Vancouver - as well as overnight stops in Europe.

 

[71 Truck]

I posted something like this in the past.
The meeting with the Vice President is the cruise industry asking to be given the same opportunity to start cruising just like any other business that has opened or may have never closed. As long as they have put in place the same if not better safety and health protocols as other business why not let them.

In my opinion I think the health and safety protocols the cruise industry are proposing and have implemented are equal to or better than most business I visit during my normal daily activity's. I think that is the point they are trying to make with the Vice President.

People will then be given the choice weather or not they want to cruise, just like they are given a choice weather or not they want to visit any other type of business.

 

[tvguy]

I posted something like this in the past.
The meeting with the Vice President is the cruise industry asking to be given the same opportunity to start cruising just like any other business that has opened or may have never closed. As long as they have put in place the same if not better safety and health protocols as other business why not let them.

In my opinion I think the health and safety protocols the cruise industry are proposing and have implemented are equal to or better than most business I visit during my normal daily activity's. I think that is the point they are trying to make with the Vice President.

People will then be given the choice weather or not they want to cruise, just like they are given a choice weather or not they want to visit any other type of business.

I think there are a few huge issues. This is an International issue, and not sure the U.S. Vice President alone will get to make a choice.
Second, covid is blowing up again worldwide, so there may be a pull back.
Third, to the point of other industries, a travel article made the point that what may ultimately turn out to not be the best choices in other industries should not be choices the cruise industry makes

 

[belle032]

I think there are a few huge issues. This is an International issue, and not sure the U.S. Vice President alone will get to make a choice.
Second, covid is blowing up again worldwide, so there may be a pull back.
Third, to the point of other industries, a travel article made the point that what may ultimately turn out to not be the best choices in other industries should not be choices the cruise industry makes

I understand and appreciate your concerns, and looking back through this thread, I see you (and others!) are extremely against cruising opening up again. That's fine, everyone is absolutely entitled to their opinion and must choose what is best for themselves and their families. I was actually very similar in the beginning. It really wasn't until I saw WDW laying off 28,000 CMs that I began to rethink everything. Speaking as a former WDW CM myself, I feel for those CMs (and now cruise ship employees) that just want to work. I absolutely would not have been able to remain independently living in Florida if this had happened when I was working in the parks. Many CMs live entirely paycheck to paycheck. I'm sure a huge percentage of cruise employees count on that money to support their families as well. Honestly, when this all started, I was firmly in the camp of shutting everything down until this virus was under control. As time passes, however, I realize that pandemic or not, there are still bills to pay and mouths to feed. There has to be some sort of balance here.

I agree that cruising is not an essential business. But for the thousands of people who work in the industry, it *is* essential. Theme parks aren't technically essential either. Neither are bars or restaurants or malls or movie theaters. These cruise lines should be allowed to present a plan for the slow and methodical restart of their industry, like every other industry before them. Whether or not other countries want to allow them to port is not our issue. That is the cruise line's job and I'm pretty dang sure they'll do their research to determine where they can go in a safe & financially prudent manner. None of these companies are going to go recklessly charging into a full-on restart when they know that the future of their entire corporation is balancing on the edge of a knife.

I'm not going to get into politics, but I'm happy there have been talks with the current administration. We'll see in the coming weeks what it adds up to, but maybe we'll get some news with the RCL announcement that might happen.

 

[tvguy]

I understand and appreciate your concerns, and looking back through this thread, I see you (and others!) are extremely against cruising opening up again. That's fine, everyone is absolutely entitled to their opinion and must choose what is best for themselves and their families. I was actually very similar in the beginning. It really wasn't until I saw WDW laying off 28,000 CMs that I began to rethink everything. Speaking as a former WDW CM myself, I feel for those CMs (and now cruise ship employees) that just want to work. I absolutely would not have been able to remain independently living in Florida if this had happened when I was working in the parks. Many CMs live entirely paycheck to paycheck. I'm sure a huge percentage of cruise employees count on that money to support their families as well. Honestly, when this all started, I was firmly in the camp of shutting everything down until this virus was under control. As time passes, however, I realize that pandemic or not, there are still bills to pay and mouths to feed. There has to be some sort of balance here.

I agree that cruising is not an essential business. But for the thousands of people who work in the industry, it *is* essential. Theme parks aren't technically essential either. Neither are bars or restaurants or malls or movie theaters. These cruise lines should be allowed to present a plan for the slow and methodical restart of their industry, like every other industry before them. Whether or not other countries want to allow them to port is not our issue. That is the cruise line's job and I'm pretty dang sure they'll do their research to determine where they can go in a safe & financially prudent manner. None of these companies are going to go recklessly charging into a full-on restart when they know that the future of their entire corporation is balancing on the edge of a knife.

I'm not going to get into politics, but I'm happy there have been talks with the current administration. We'll see in the coming weeks what it adds up to, but maybe we'll get some news with the RCL announcement that might happen.

My concern is safety. We keep comparing to other industries that are open or have reopened with questionable results. Dead people don't need jobs, to be blunt.

 

[mevelandry]

I understand and appreciate your concerns, and looking back through this thread, I see you (and others!) are extremely against cruising opening up again. That's fine, everyone is absolutely entitled to their opinion and must choose what is best for themselves and their families. I was actually very similar in the beginning. It really wasn't until I saw WDW laying off 28,000 CMs that I began to rethink everything. Speaking as a former WDW CM myself, I feel for those CMs (and now cruise ship employees) that just want to work. I absolutely would not have been able to remain independently living in Florida if this had happened when I was working in the parks. Many CMs live entirely paycheck to paycheck. I'm sure a huge percentage of cruise employees count on that money to support their families as well. Honestly, when this all started, I was firmly in the camp of shutting everything down until this virus was under control. As time passes, however, I realize that pandemic or not, there are still bills to pay and mouths to feed. There has to be some sort of balance here.

I agree that cruising is not an essential business. But for the thousands of people who work in the industry, it *is* essential. Theme parks aren't technically essential either. Neither are bars or restaurants or malls or movie theaters. These cruise lines should be allowed to present a plan for the slow and methodical restart of their industry, like every other industry before them. Whether or not other countries want to allow them to port is not our issue. That is the cruise line's job and I'm pretty dang sure they'll do their research to determine where they can go in a safe & financially prudent manner. None of these companies are going to go recklessly charging into a full-on restart when they know that the future of their entire corporation is balancing on the edge of a knife.

I'm not going to get into politics, but I'm happy there have been talks with the current administration. We'll see in the coming weeks what it adds up to, but maybe we'll get some news with the RCL announcement that might happen.

We're waiting for a RCL announcement?

 

[71 Truck]

I think there are a few huge issues. This is an International issue, and not sure the U.S. Vice President alone will get to make a choice.
Second, covid is blowing up again worldwide, so there may be a pull back.
Third, to the point of other industries, a travel article made the point that what may ultimately turn out to not be the best choices in other industries should not be choices the cruise industry makes

First, I am not sure where you live. I live in the United States. The reason for the meeting is a US government agency "the CDC" is the one holding up cruising out of the US. I think the meeting with the Vice President will get things moving to get cruising started so to me this is not an International issue. Also they have been cruising in Europe now for several weeks with no problems.

Second, I have not been following what Covid has been doing out side the US as I have no plans to travel out side the US except to maybe cruise and then they will have protocols in place.

Third, This is why they had the meeting to let the Vice President know that they are looking at health and safety precautions in my opinion that are more stringent that what other industries are doing.

The whole idea is to get both side talking to come to a conclusion what is best to get things moving again.

This is not the last we are going to hear of any new viruses in our world.This could happen next year and the year after that. We can't keep shutting down the world every time this happens. We have been living with the Flu every year since I don't when. I think the proposals talked about with the Vice President will help make cruising safer long term even after this virus gone or greatly diminished.

 

[belle032]

My concern is safety. We keep comparing to other industries that are open or have reopened with questionable results. Dead people don't need jobs, to be blunt.

You are correct. They don’t. And I don’t mean any disrespect to those have a lost someone. But many very alive people simply do not have the luxury of just waiting this out until someone decides its “safe.” Like I said, there has to be some balance here.

We're waiting a RCL announcement?

Yes, I think RCL stayed there would be some sort of announcement/news in the near future.

 

[gotomu212]

First, I am not sure where you live. I live in the United States. The reason for the meeting is a US government agency "the CDC" is the one holding up cruising out of the US. I think the meeting with the Vice President will get things moving to get cruising started so to me this is not an International issue. Also they have been cruising in Europe now for several weeks with no problems.

Well this Vice President might only be able to get things moving for 3 months and then another administration might be in power. The career CDC people don’t want cruising to re-start yet. Until we get through the election I can’t imagine any cruise line making million dollar decisions to open without knowing the outcome (although they may say they were set to open as a way to pressure a potential new administration). I don’t think we’ll know more until we get an election result.

 

[tvguy]

First, I am not sure where you live. I live in the United States. The reason for the meeting is a US government agency "the CDC" is the one holding up cruising out of the US. I think the meeting with the Vice President will get things moving to get cruising started so to me this is not an International issue. Also they have been cruising in Europe now for several weeks with no problems.

Second, I have not been following what Covid has been doing out side the US as I have no plans to travel out side the US except to maybe cruise and then they will have protocols in place.

Third, This is why they had the meeting to let the Vice President know that they are looking at health and safety precautions in my opinion that are more stringent that what other industries are doing.

The whole idea is to get both side talking to come to a conclusion what is best to get things moving again.

This is not the last we are going to hear of any new viruses in our world.This could happen next year and the year after that. We can't keep shutting down the world every time this happens. We have been living with the Flu every year since I don't when. I think the proposals talked about with the Vice President will help make cruising safer long term even after this virus gone or greatly diminished.

1) California
2) Other than NCL America's Pride of America, all ships go to foreign ports so that is a big part of cruises being able to resume.

Watching the news right now. Ironic how divided people are on covid-19. Protests today demanding prisoners be released because the confined space of prison is dangerous due to covid. And people wanting cruises to resume so they can be in the confined space of a cruise ship