VP Pence to host call with cruise line industry.

[Snowwhyt]

Great I’m allergic to polyester, wool, linen, and rubber. I have 2 ply cotton masks with cotton ties.

 

[Starwind]

Great I’m allergic to polyester, wool, linen, and rubber. I have 2 ply cotton masks with cotton ties.

The policy on specific type of required mask is likely airline specific. For example, American Airlines has their policy stated here: https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/coronavirus-updates.jsp which includes in part "A face covering can be a mask or any secured cloth that covers your nose and mouth and fits snugly under the chin." and "Face coverings with exhaust valves or vents, or made with mesh or lace type fabric, are not allowed." [there are additional aspects to their policy]

Also, for example, the AA policy speaks to some things not allowed in flight: "For the safety of everyone on board, some types of recreational / personal protection equipment are not allowed for use on our planes or in flight: Face or full-body pods / tents; Portable electronic air fresheners / purifiers; Ozone generators"

Presumably when the cruise lines resume they will also have clearly defined policies regarding what is and is not acceptable re: masks and other PPE. Especially because people are going to have to bring a supply of them with them to cover multiple days of the trip plus pre-and post- travel.

As to your allergies, my sympathies. I have allergies and sensitivities to several types of fabrics and it can be quite frustrating at times [and especially when trying to dress for certain professional environments that have expected dress codes...].

Hopefully the good news is most medical-type disposable masks are made of non-woven fabrics like polypropylene [however, some CAN be made of or contain polyester or other materials, so it would be important to know what the specific mask you are going to wear is made of, mask, ear loops/ties, etc - information which is not always evident on the packaging unfortunately :-( ] [and latex is sneaky, so of course it is important to find ones that are explicitly latex-free -- they do exist ! ]. I have even come across some with polypro as the outer two layers and cotton as the inner layer.

See for example https://www.thomasnet.com/articles/other/how-surgical-masks-are-made/

Assuming polypropylene might be an option, if you anticipate a future need for the medical-style masks it may be worthwhile to identify a domestic producer and have a conversation with them about the content of their masks and perhaps get a sample or small number to try.

I know of a Canadian medical/surgical mask producer (they have been in the news & their masks are sold in stores; their masks meet ATSM Level III standards and are sold in 5 packs to consumers through pharmacies here, as well as online; they sell 50 packs to medical professionals/organizations): https://i3biomedical.com/consumer/

I assume there are domestic USA medical mask manufacturers that produce medical and/or consumer-grade medical style masks.

SW

 

[Karin1984]

I didn't know they did not allow homemade masks. Good to know. Thanks for the info.

It can differ per airline. Just read the instructions and prepare for both.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

The airline didn't allow homemade masks. They handed out the regular masks at boarding for those who didn't have the right one.

How do they determine "homemade" masks? I have some masks I made and some I've bought, they look identical.

By "regular" do you mean the blue or green paper masks (pleated) that's sort of the generic mask?

 

[Karin1984]

How do they determine "homemade" masks? I have some masks I made and some I've bought, they look identical.

By "regular" do you mean the blue or green paper masks (pleated) that's sort of the generic mask?

Yes, the only ones Air France allowed were these types. My guess is that it makes it easier for the flight attendants to spot if the masks are worn correctly. If someone has a flesh colour mask or a pattern, it might be harder to see?

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Yes, the only ones Air France allowed were these types. My guess is that it makes it easier for the flight attendants to spot if the masks are worn correctly. If someone has a flesh colour mask or a pattern, it might be harder to see?

Good to know. We're (theoretically) flying Air France next spring, I'll pack some of the generic masks.

 

[gotomu212]

Here's the readout from the VPs call from the White house website.

Vice President Mike Pence today led a call with Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Director Dr. Robert Redfield; Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary Alex Azar; former Utah Governor and HHS Secretary Mike Leavitt of the Healthy Sail Panel; and executives of the cruise line industry to discuss the impacts of the Coronavirus on the cruise line industry and the maritime economy, the CDC’s No Sail Order, and the Cruise Lines International Association and Healthy Sail Panel’s proposal to resume sailing operations in a safe and responsible manner. The recommendations from the Healthy Sail Panel recently received industry-wide adoption.

Vice President Pence gave a brief overview of the current state of the No Sail Order and highlighted the shared goal of reopening the maritime economy, with a focus on the cruise line industry safely sailing again. Pence thanked Governor Leavitt, Co-Chair of the Healthy Sail Panel, and the cruise line executives for conducting an industry-driven effort that focuses on the health outcomes.

HHS Secretary Azar and CDC Director Redfield touched on their commitment to the collaborative effort that produced the Healthy Sail Panel’s 74 recommendations, and the Federal government’s support of the industry to safely and responsibly sail again, but cautioned that the cruise industry would have to backstop their venture to resume operations.

Governor Leavitt provided an overview of how the Healthy Sail Panel approached their report and recommendations, and emphasized that the industry was driven by producing real solutions without economic restraints, which did not result in market participants competing on safety. Leavitt indicated that the output needed to be practical and prioritized safety.

Together, the industry executives thanked the Trump Administration for its collaborative approach and support, and stressed that this process and proposal introduces accountability and standards that will ensure cruise ship passengers are in a safe and healthy environment.

The proposal will be presented to the Task Force in order to provide a recommendation to President Donald J. Trump with regard to next steps on the CDC’s No Sail Order.

Participants:
-Governor Mike Leavitt (Co-Chair, Healthy Sail Panel)
-Arnold Donald (CEO, Carnival Corporation)
-Frank Del Rio (President & CEO, Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings)
-Richard Fain (Chairman & CEO, Royal Caribbean Group)
-Thomas Malzoum (President, Disney Signature Experience)
-Pierfrancesco Vago (Executive Chairman, MSC Cruises)

What provides another incredible layer of unpredictability in an already murky environment is that we have an election in three weeks. There’s a possibility that Pence, Azar, and Redfield are no longer decision makers come January. I cannot imagine the cruiselines would spend the money to open back up in December only to be told to close in February.

If there’s a change in administration they aren’t exactly back at square one but they’ll need to start some of this over based on the direction from the top (and the career CDC officials are in favor of extending the No Sail).

 

[spiders]

Unless there is a vaccine, we’ll only travel again when my province (I live in Canada) and Florida/the USA return in the « green zone » (2 or lower per 100 000), rapid testing is available —in a few weeks from now— and the 14 day quarantine after travel is not mandatory.

A .00002% infection rate is the rate you’ll accept? Let’s put that into perspective...12 people per every 100,000 die in car accidents. That’s a fatality rate let alone an actual involved in an accident rate.

You do what you want but a lot of people have lost their livelihoods. They deserve a chance to make things work.

 

[AquaDame]

Yes, the only ones Air France allowed were these types. My guess is that it makes it easier for the flight attendants to spot if the masks are worn correctly. If someone has a flesh colour mask or a pattern, it might be harder to see?

Could also be that the fabric ones (homemade or otherwise) can't be guaranteed to filter to a certain size particle. You also cant tell how new or "clean" they are as you can with disposable ones. When in doubt - fresh disposable mask.

 

[mevelandry]

A .00002% infection rate is the rate you’ll accept? Let’s put that into perspective...12 people per every 100,000 die in car accidents. That’s a fatality rate let alone an actual involved in an accident rate.

You do what you want but a lot of people have lost their livelihoods. They deserve a chance to make things work.

They didn’t ask for my opinion before deciding on the color code (based on x per 100 000) and safety measures (like the 14 days mandatory quarantine)... I follow the recommendations.

I can´t travel freely/safely so I’m encouraging the livelihoods of people from my own country. They suffer too.

 

[Intr3pid]

A .00002% infection rate is the rate you’ll accept? Let’s put that into perspective...12 people per every 100,000 die in car accidents. That’s a fatality rate let alone an actual involved in an accident rate.

You do what you want but a lot of people have lost their livelihoods. They deserve a chance to make things work.

The car industry already has its vaccine and therapeutic drugs: brakes, seat belts, speed limits, traffic rules/training, tickets and penalties, known medical treatments, and so on. Take all of that away and then see where the fatality rates will end up.

Other than masks and social distancing, this virus has no counter. There is no vaccine and no treatment. If you let it run unchecked, you will end up with case fatality rates as high as 10%. And the case "suffering" rates much higher.

And a vaccine and/or a treatment is not too far away. You have done the hard work - just need to wait out a little more. And in the meantime, get the lawmakers to agree on and provide a stimulus package. Some sort of government aid is how all responsible governments have dealt with this pandemic.

You can get your job back and start making money again. But you can't get back a loved one once they are lost forever to this pandemic.

 

[GingerPilot]

You can get your job back and start making money again. But you can't get back a loved one once they are lost forever to this pandemic.

I have friends that haven’t lost jobs, they’ve lost careers. Furloughed potentially for ten years over this mess. So to say we can “just go back to work and start making money again” once it’s over is really naive. Entire industries have been destroyed and it’s further complicated by mayors and governors putting so much fear and restrictions in their communities. Let the people choose. Choose to cruise, choose to travel, choose to go out to eat, choose to go to the salon.... if you don’t want to that’s fine, but others do and that’s okay too.

 

[spiders]

They didn’t ask for my opinion before deciding on the color code (based on x per 100 000) and safety measures (like the 14 days mandatory quarantine)... I follow the recommendations.

I can´t travel freely/safely so I’m encouraging the livelihoods of people from my own country. They suffer too.

So because someone said “green” is .00002% you just go with it?

The car industry already has its vaccine and therapeutic drugs: brakes, seat belts, speed limits, traffic rules/training, tickets and penalties, known medical treatments, and so on. Take all of that away and then see where the fatality rates will end up.

Other than masks and social distancing, this virus has no counter. There is no vaccine and no treatment. If you let it run unchecked, you will end up with case fatality rates as high as 10%. And the case "suffering" rates much higher.

And a vaccine and/or a treatment is not too far away. You have done the hard work - just need to wait out a little more. And in the meantime, get the lawmakers to agree on and provide a stimulus package. Some sort of government aid is how all responsible governments have dealt with this pandemic.

You can get your job back and start making money again. But you can't get back a loved one once they are lost forever to this pandemic.

So because we have brakes and seatbelts, the risk is now acceptable? Nobody is suggesting you let the virus unchecked but we have learned to live and accept risk in all aspects of our lives, many things certainly higher than .00002%.

More stimulus? We are at 7 months and let’s be honest, we’re probably only halfway to normalcy. Who do you think is actually going to pay for all of this?

 

[spiders]

—

 

[Intr3pid]

I have friends that haven’t lost jobs, they’ve lost careers. Furloughed potentially for ten years over this mess. So to say we can “just go back to work and start making money again” once it’s over is really naive. Entire industries have been destroyed and it’s further complicated by mayors and governors putting so much fear and restrictions in their communities. Let the people choose. Choose to cruise, choose to travel, choose to go out to eat, choose to go to the salon.... if you don’t want to that’s fine, but others do and that’s okay too.

Entire industries have been destroyed? The industry you are shedding tears for is going to return in some form possibly as soon as next month. And probably back to full operations sometime next year.

You have friends who have been furloughed. I know people who have lost lives.

You can choose to go to a salon, you can choose to throw away your masks, you can choose to fill up the beaches. And you can choose to jump off a cliff too. It's your life. Just don't come anywhere near our hospitals if you get sick, so we can prioritize taking care of those who choose to first take care of themselves.

So because we have brakes and seatbelts, the risk is now acceptable? Nobody is suggesting you let the virus unchecked but we have learned to live and accept risk in all aspects of our lives, many things certainly higher than .00002%.

You tell me. Do you drive a car with brakes and seat belts? Would you drive one without them?

And exactly what is your strategy for keeping this virus in check - and the risk acceptable - without either a treatment or a vaccine or restrictions on movement? Start cruising as if nothing happened?

More stimulus? We are at 7 months and let’s be honest, we’re probably only halfway to normalcy. Who do you think is actually going to pay for all of this?

Whoever pays for it every time. Treasury bills issued today - repaid with taxes in the future once incomes return.

 

[spiders]

Entire industries have been destroyed? The industry you are shedding tears for is going to return in some form possibly as soon as next month. And probably back to full operations sometime next year.

You have friends who have been furloughed. I know people who have lost lives.

You can choose to go to a salon, you can choose to throw away your masks, you can choose to fill up the beaches. And you can choose to jump off a cliff too. It's your life. Just don't come anywhere near our hospitals if you get sick, so we can prioritize taking care of those who choose to first take care of themselves.


You tell me. Do you drive a car with brakes and seat belts? Would you drive one without them?

And exactly what is your strategy for keeping this virus in check - and the risk acceptable - without either a treatment or a vaccine or restrictions on movement? Start cruising as if nothing happened?


Whoever pays for it every time. Treasury bills issued today - repaid with taxes in the future once incomes return.

My strategy is masks and social distancing. Of course I wouldn’t drive a car without brakes but I also wouldn’t throw away a mask and go fill a beach or jump off a cliff. Of course brakes and seat belts aren’t vaccines or treatments. They’re preventative measures and another preventative measure would be to not drive.

It’s funny that you told a pilot that it’s no big deal and don’t go near a hospital. If she’s flying between hot spots then she’s irresponsible but if she’s flying whatever non-essential stuff you ordered online then that’s cool. Just like all of the millions that have been going to work this entire time and figuring out how to mitigate risk.

 

[mousefan73]

Before I do my flying is safe spiel...I work in the industry. 1 out of every 14 jobs in the US is at least partially dependent on commercial aviation. We are hurting as is the whole tourism Industry. I really want to cruise again AND keep my job.

I would just like to add that according to IATA -
“New research from Airbus, The Boeing Company & Embraer demonstrates that combining the aircraft’s existing design features with mask-wearing creates a low-risk environment for #COVID19 transmission.

In a period where 1.2 billion passengers traveled, less than 50 cases were reported where transmission is thought to have been associated with flying”
That’s a 1 in 27 million chance.
View attachment 531905
See more bit.ly/3iH13kR

#FlySafe #ReadyToFly

Excately! I also work for an airline. I would also like to add to these cases all took place in March before the new safety measures were implemented. Another words packed planes with people not wearing mask. I can see for the company I work for those that got Covid did not get them while working but instead at family events. The whole travel industry whether it’s an airline or hotels is taking an unnecessary hit. Including the closure of borders. Look at the numbers and they will tell you the truth we are Covid cases are coming from. Not from people traveling. I’m attaching a link from the RKIn(German CDC.). They do daily reports and the Covid situation. This is in English look at pages 9’and 10. Especially page 10. You see the total number of Covid cases by week and you see that over 90% are domestic cases. What they don’t show in this report are the hundreds of thousands of out of country travelers where Covid cases are less than 1% of total travelers.
https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ...2020/2020-10-13-en.pdf?__blob=publicationFile

 

[mevelandry]

So because someone said “green” is .00002% you just go with it?

That « someone » is our Public Health Department. They know about this virus and epidemiology so much more than I do. So yeah... Like it or not, I trust them and I will follow their recommendations.

 

[spiders]

That « someone » is our Public Health Department. They know about this virus and epidemiology so much more than I do. So yeah... Like it or not, I trust them and I will follow their recommendations.

Whatever. You do you. But just know that your odds of dying in a car accident are greater than .00002% so you better rethink your entire life if you want to stay “green”

 

[mevelandry]

Whatever. You do you. But just know that your odds of dying in a car accident are greater than .00002% so you better rethink your entire life if you want to stay “green”

It's not about me. It's about the people I love and people I cross paths with.

Being killed in a car accident can't kill someone I love in a car accident as a repercussion. Catching COVID could (or potentially affect their health forever).

Look, arguing with me won't change my mind. You're not Canada's Health Department. I will travel when they say it's safe(r) to travel.