Was I Being a Germaphobe?

[DeniseJH]

Not really.

Haha - I guess someone really does have to come up with a sarcasm emoji!!

 

[NHdisneylover]

Haha - I guess someone really does have to come up with a sarcasm emoji!!

You've been a member of the DIS for 10 years. A good 10% of your total post count is you posting on this thread. And the posts here are very antagonistic. Why? I mean, if you prefer to not share a bag of chips at an outing, fine, bring your own, no bother to anyone.
Many of us here DO understand the real level of risk in basic things like that, as well as in being overly wary of germs and not building up immune systems---and most of us find a middle ground we feel is appropriate for our families.
Your middle ground may not be mine---doesn't mean I cannot understand what the CDC has to say on the matter of E Coli transmission. It just means I apply that information, and other information, in a different way than you do.

 

[CarolAnn856]

I'll say it again - what is relevant to the OP's scenario is PERSON TO PERSON SPREAD, NOT how a person might ORIGINALLY come in to contact with Ecoli. The CDC clearly states the most common way Ecoli is spread from PERSON TO PERSON is poor hygiene, and that the best way to prevent this is by washing your hands after using the bathroom. I'm really surprised that this is news to so many of you.

You're getting a bit too worked up over this. Your post that I referenced made a flat statement, one that quite a few of us took at face value, not just in context of the OP, especially since even the OP was involved in the discussions of petting zoos.

 

[NotUrsula]

I'll say it again - what is relevant to the OP's scenario is PERSON TO PERSON SPREAD, NOT how a person might ORIGINALLY come in to contact with Ecoli. The CDC clearly states the most common way Ecoli is spread from PERSON TO PERSON is poor hygiene, and that the best way to prevent this is by washing your hands after using the bathroom. I'm really surprised that this is news to so many of you.

Yes, it is the most common way to spread it from person to person, but then the corollary question must be, what percentage of e-coli illnesses are spread via person-to-person contact? Luckily, the CDC has an app for that!
They call it the NORS Dashboard, and here it is: https://wwwn.cdc.gov/norsdashboard/

I searched Escherichia diseases, date range 1998-2016, and got the following numbers (for the entire 18-year period):
All transmission sources: 893 Outbreaks / 15,323 illnesses / 2520 hospitalizations / 49 deaths
Person-to-person: 102 Outbreaks / 854 illnesses / 76 hospitalizations / 3 deaths

As you can see, the percentage of persons made ill specifically by person-to-person contact is only 5.58% of the total number of persons who became ill. Now, the CDC also tells us in other materials that the most common location for person-to-person transmission is daycare centers, where nearly every adult is handling both food and fecal matter directly. I'm guessing (and yes, I admit to that), that a Little League event with mostly school aged children who are not changing anyone else's diapers should have a transmission rate that is at least 50% less than a daycare, assuming that SOMEONE present is indeed infected (which is actually rather unlikely unless the group contains a lot of agricultural workers), so you are probably looking at an effective transmission rate that is no more than 2.75% of all cases. The odds of one particular potato chip bag managing to be contaminated by that person AND have you come into contact with AND ingest the pathogen from that source is really still darned low.

So, was she being a germaphobe in that context? Yep, she was. While contagion *was* technically possible under those circumstances, the odds of it happening were so low as to not really be worth worrying about on that occasion.

What matters in these terms at events like these is that the people cooking and serving are being vigilant about keeping their own hands clean, especially when handling raw meat. What matters even more is that these same people are being extra-vigilant about maintaining proper serving temperatures, because bacterial illness from eating spoiled food is much more common than person-to-person disease transmission in an outdoor buffett setting.

 

[TiggerTrigger]

I haven't gone through all of the posts, but I can say that I would reach right in that bag...no second thoughts. In fact, I had this come up at work once and one girl was so horrified about something like this that she gave away a big bag of chocolate covered almonds to those of us without these hangups, because she was repulsed by the idea of any of us reaching directly into the bag. I figure the germs would have killed me in college with all of the nasty bar and fraternity house bathrooms...so no fears over a bag of a chips. OP brought up hand sanitizer and it seems like my friends who carry it everywhere are the ones who are always sick.

 

[VandVsmama]

11 pages about chips.

 

[luvsJack]

I haven't gone through all of the posts, but I can say that I would reach right in that bag...no second thoughts. In fact, I had this come up at work once and one girl was so horrified about something like this that she gave away a big bag of chocolate covered almonds to those of us without these hangups, because she was repulsed by the idea of any of us reaching directly into the bag. I figure the germs would have killed me in college with all of the nasty bar and fraternity house bathrooms...so no fears over a bag of a chips. OP brought up hand sanitizer and it seems like my friends who carry it everywhere are the ones who are always sick.

EXACTLY! We had a co-worker that used it constantly. She picked up every bug that come in the office. The rest of us would be fine and she would catch it.

When I ran the child care center, we washed hands. We did not use hand sanitizer. Well, except for one employee who truly was OCD. And bless her heart, she got sick every time. But for most of us, we used gloves to change diapers (washed hands after removing the gloves) and washed hands thoroughly when appropriate. And, HORRORS! sometimes we had picnics and we didn't have a way to wash hands at those picnics!! We would use a wet wipe and wipe the dirt off and feed these hungry kids. And it was fine.

All this worrying about germs on potato chips is just a bit much. Kids have been eating after each other and with their hands as long as there have been kids. Its ok. Good grief, some kids eat dirt or sand or even ants! And live to tell about it!!

 

[DeniseJH]

You've been a member of the DIS for 10 years. A good 10% of your total post count is you posting on this thread. And the posts here are very antagonistic. Why? I mean, if you prefer to not share a bag of chips at an outing, fine, bring your own, no bother to anyone.
Many of us here DO understand the real level of risk in basic things like that, as well as in being overly wary of germs and not building up immune systems---and most of us find a middle ground we feel is appropriate for our families.
Your middle ground may not be mine---doesn't mean I cannot understand what the CDC has to say on the matter of E Coli transmission. It just means I apply that information, and other information, in a different way than you do.

To me that was just a silly, sarcastic aside. Otherwise, my original post was questioned, and I've simply been responding to that. If I get a little snark I'm going to give a little snark, as seems to be the norm here. Do I care how you approach food safety? Nope. You choose your risks and I'll choose mine.

 

[DeniseJH]

Yes, it is the most common way to spread it from person to person, but then the corollary question must be, what percentage of e-coli illnesses are spread via person-to-person contact? Luckily, the CDC has an app for that!
They call it the NORS Dashboard, and here it is: https://wwwn.cdc.gov/norsdashboard/

I searched Escherichia diseases, date range 1998-2016, and got the following numbers (for the entire 18-year period):
All transmission sources: 893 Outbreaks / 15,323 illnesses / 2520 hospitalizations / 49 deaths
Person-to-person: 102 Outbreaks / 854 illnesses / 76 hospitalizations / 3 deaths

As you can see, the percentage of persons made ill specifically by person-to-person contact is only 5.58% of the total number of persons who became ill. Now, the CDC also tells us in other materials that the most common location for person-to-person transmission is daycare centers, where nearly every adult is handling both food and fecal matter directly. I'm guessing (and yes, I admit to that), that a Little League event with mostly school aged children who are not changing anyone else's diapers should have a transmission rate that is at least 50% less than a daycare, assuming that SOMEONE present is indeed infected (which is actually rather unlikely unless the group contains a lot of agricultural workers), so you are probably looking at an effective transmission rate that is no more than 2.75% of all cases. The odds of one particular potato chip bag managing to be contaminated by that person AND have you come into contact with AND ingest the pathogen from that source is really still darned low.

What matters in these terms at events like these is that the people cooking and serving are being vigilant about keeping their own hands clean, especially when handling raw meat. What matters even more is that these same people are being extra-vigilant about maintaining proper serving temperatures, because bacterial illness from eating spoiled food is much more common than person-to-person disease transmission in an outdoor buffett setting.

That has absolutely nothing to do with the OP's question. The question is about the risks of multiple people that haven't washed their hands putting those hands on the food she's about to eat. She did not ask for a class on good germs, or many ways Ecoli can be transmitted.

 

[shoney]

Well I was just at the vet and this thread came to mind.

The vet tech reached into a bag of chips that a co worker was eating Co worker offered didn’t seem to mind


She then comes
Over and gives my sloppy lab a cookie and lets her lick her fingers.

I sat.....waiting to see if she got more chips..but we were called in.


For the record I would have given my kids the chips!

 

[DeniseJH]

You're getting a bit too worked up over this. Your post that I referenced made a flat statement, one that quite a few of us took at face value, not just in context of the OP, especially since even the OP was involved in the discussions of petting zoos.

I'm not at all worked up - I don't know why you'd think that. I was plainly addressing the original post, and some were missing the point so I was trying to make it more clear. Nothing more, nothing less. The fact remains that the best way to prevent the spread of Ecoli from person to person is for everyone to wash their hands after using the bathroom.

 

[wgeo]

I love the Dis, been gone for 3 days and the Chips thread is still at the top of the page.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

This is a discussion board. Topics evolve, take twists and turns, people can either get into it or not get into it, nobody's forcing anyone to read or post.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

So, I visited the CDC page on EColi. While handwashing is mentioned, it seemed pretty clear that the most common way it's spread is through contaminated and undercooked/unwashed food.

To recap, your post said that "poor hygeine" is the most common way it's spread. Another poster pointed out that you were incorrect, and that eating contaminated and improperly prepared food, such as beef and produce, is most typically the cause. You referred them to the CDC, but refused to post a link. If you have better info than I found, please do share it. As I said, the pages I read all seem to support the other poster, but I could have missed something.

Yes, it is the most common way to spread it from person to person, but then the corollary question must be, what percentage of e-coli illnesses are spread via person-to-person contact? Luckily, the CDC has an app for that!
They call it the NORS Dashboard, and here it is: https://wwwn.cdc.gov/norsdashboard/

I searched Escherichia diseases, date range 1998-2016, and got the following numbers (for the entire 18-year period):
All transmission sources: 893 Outbreaks / 15,323 illnesses / 2520 hospitalizations / 49 deaths
Person-to-person: 102 Outbreaks / 854 illnesses / 76 hospitalizations / 3 deaths

As you can see, the percentage of persons made ill specifically by person-to-person contact is only 5.58% of the total number of persons who became ill. Now, the CDC also tells us in other materials that the most common location for person-to-person transmission is daycare centers, where nearly every adult is handling both food and fecal matter directly. I'm guessing (and yes, I admit to that), that a Little League event with mostly school aged children who are not changing anyone else's diapers should have a transmission rate that is at least 50% less than a daycare, assuming that SOMEONE present is indeed infected (which is actually rather unlikely unless the group contains a lot of agricultural workers), so you are probably looking at an effective transmission rate that is no more than 2.75% of all cases. The odds of one particular potato chip bag managing to be contaminated by that person AND have you come into contact with AND ingest the pathogen from that source is really still darned low.

What matters in these terms at events like these is that the people cooking and serving are being vigilant about keeping their own hands clean, especially when handling raw meat. What matters even more is that these same people are being extra-vigilant about maintaining proper serving temperatures, because bacterial illness from eating spoiled food is much more common than person-to-person disease transmission in an outdoor buffett setting.

Many of us here DO understand the real level of risk in basic things like that, as well as in being overly wary of germs and not building up immune systems---and most of us find a middle ground we feel is appropriate for our families. Your middle ground may not be mine---doesn't mean I cannot understand what the CDC has to say on the matter of E Coli transmission. It just means I apply that information, and other information, in a different way than you do.

You guys are correct. The chance is almost NIL that someone would pick up a shiga toxin-producing strain of EColi, i.e. the one that would make you very sick, from sticking their hand in a communal bag of chips. It just doesn't happen that way!

 

[DeniseJH]

You guys are correct. The chance is almost NIL that someone would pick up a shiga toxin-producing strain of EColi, i.e. the one that would make you very sick, from sticking their hand in a communal bag of chips. It just doesn't happen that way!

I get that this is what you believe, but if that were indeed fact why would the first sentence on the CDC's website under "How can STEC infections be prevented?" be: "WASH YOUR HANDS (their caps) thoroughly after using the bathroom or changing diapers and before preparing or eating food."? I would think that means it does happen.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I get that this is what you believe, but if that were indeed fact why would the first sentence on the CDC's website under "How can STEC infections be prevented?" be: "WASH YOUR HANDS (their caps) thoroughly after using the bathroom or changing diapers and before preparing or eating food."? I would think that means it does happen.

Look, there are dozens of CDC links about EColi. If you want to provide me with the exact link you're referring to, I'm happy to look at it. Otherwise, I really can't discuss this topic with you any more because you're talking generalities and I'm talking specifics.

 

[DeniseJH]

I don't know why you would need anything more specific than what I wrote above. But if you need to see it writing go to cdc.gov, search e coli, look at the q and a.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I don't know why you would need anything more specific than what I wrote above. But if you need to see it writing go to cdc.gov, search e coli, look at the q and a.

I'm done playing games with you.

 

[DeniseJH]

I'm done playing games with you.

What games? I told you exactly where to find the info. Honestly, I think that you just don't want to admit that you were wrong.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

What games? I told you exactly where to find the info. Honestly, I think that you just don't want to admit that you were wrong.

If you really wanted to have a meaningful dialogue, you would've posted the link you're purportedly referring to a long time ago. You didn't originally (which is customary here when making a point, especially when going against the grain), and refused when politely asked to, so I can only conclude you are playing games with me, therefore I will no longer be responding to your posts, including your attempts at baiting me on this thread.