When do you think the border will reopen?

[wdwmom3]

As I'm sure you understand, that's obviously not an option for most Canucks who live outside the country. We have homes here. Jobs. Pets. Our healthcare is in the USA.

So while my point is being twisted a bit (as I expected it would be), the end effect still remains true. The poster I responded to can visit her family down street and then return to her own home when she's done. Until the border reopens, we do not have that luxury. So when someone tells me "it's no different than what we are currently dealing with", it needs to be pointed out that its VERY different.

And I’m sorry to hit you with the hard truth. But keeping cases low in our country is more important then you coming here to visit family.

 

[Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina]

And I’m sorry to hit you with the hard truth. But keeping cases low in our country is more important then you coming here to visit family.

I am very much able to handle hard truth. Its lack of compassion that saddens me.

For your sake, I pray that you are always "down the street" from your loved ones.

 

[StarSeven7]

I am very much able to handle hard truth. Its lack of compassion that saddens me.

For your sake, I pray that you are always "down the street" from your loved ones.

I agree there’s definitely a difference and those who think there’s not are obviously not in the same situation! We cancelled our trip to Chicago over March Break when everything started shutting down because we weren’t sure what was going to happen with the border and it made me nervous. I was ok with that because it was my choice but when they closed the border a week or so later, I cried because my choice was taken away and I felt helpless.

People might not be allowed to see their family living in the same city right now but the reality is that many people are doing it anyways and trying to maintain social distancing while doing it. And even for those following the letter of the law, they will be reunited with their families long before people with families on the other side of the border.

 

[Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina]

So because I can “get away” with something I’m not supposed to do. It’s different?

Um, yes. It's VERY different. Because we folks living on the other side of the border cannot "get away" with anything.

In the case of an emergency, YOU can get to your loved ones and get back to your home with nothing more than a guilty conscience for breaking the rules. Right now, WE are not so fortunate. If we need to return home to Canada for an emergency, we then face a crisis of how to get back to our home in the States. I'm sorry you have the inability to see the difference between the effects of a closed border on Canadians living in Canada and the effects of a closed border on Canadians living abroad. You don't care, I get that....but because you have no empathy for people in our situation doesn't mean we aren't living a very different set of circumstances. We may all be in the same storm but we are most definitely not all in the same boat.

For the record, I do not maintain that my desire to visit family is essential (except to my peace of mind). I responded to the poster who commented that the borders would not reopen to non-essential travel until at least January 2021. I said that there was no way the current Prime Minister, given his past history and actions, would halt immigration from March 2020 to January 2021 (if Canadians living abroad aren't of any concern to him, immigrants generally are). My point was that if new immigrants are being welcomed into Canada from other countries, then it would make zero sense to keep the borders closed between the US and Canada.

 

[Madame]

Jeez, is this an American anti-immigration thread or a CANADIAN border thread? Sounding mighty un-Canadian to me (3rd gen immigrant on my Mother’s side).

 

[ottawamom]

I agree this thread has taken a turn for the worse. Time to reign it back in and remember the no politics guidelines. Our threads are usually more friendly and positive.

 

[StarSeven7]

Jeez, is this an American anti-immigration thread or a CANADIAN border thread? Sounding mighty un-Canadian to me (3rd gen immigrant on my Mother’s side).

Sorry but what does American views on immigration have to do with this thread?

 

[Madame]

Sorry but what does American views on immigration have to do with this thread?

Seriously? This thread has turned ridiculously political. As a teacher of many immigrant ESL kids & a 3rd gen immigrant I find the persistence on « if immigrants are considered essential I should be able to come home for a visit from the country with the highest infection rate and zero plan » absolutely repulsive and very much contrary to the spirit of our country. I am very blunt & do not dance around this nonsense. You do you though. YMMV.

 

[StarSeven7]

Seriously? This thread has turned ridiculously political. As a teacher of many immigrant ESL kids & a 3rd gen immigrant I find the persistence on « if immigrants are considered essential I should be able to come home for a visit from the country with the highest infection rate and zero plan » absolutely repulsive and very much contrary to the spirit of our country. I am very blunt & do not dance around this nonsense. You do you though. YMMV.

The PP who mentioned immigration is a Canadian talking about Canadian immigration. So again, not sure what Americans have to do with it?

 

[Madame]

The PP who mentioned immigration is a Canadian talking about Canadian immigration. So again, not sure what Americans have to do with it?

I teach Canadian history & civics. We have some of the most stringent immigration laws. This anti-immigration sentiment is an application of American dissatisfaction with their own immigration laws falsely applied to our country, in this instance by an ex-pat living in America. Nice sidestep of my entire point I can do this all day long in two languages.

 

[StarSeven7]

I teach Canadian history & civics. We have some of the most stringent immigration laws. This anti-immigration sentiment is an application of American dissatisfaction with their own immigration laws falsely applied to our country, in this instance by an ex-pat living in America. Nice sidestep of my entire point I can do this all day long in two languages.

Oh ok, so she’s been brainwashed by living in the US for a few years, I get it now.

And for the record, I am all for immigration as I am literally an immigrant.

 

[Madame]

Oh ok, so she’s been brainwashed by living in the US for a few years, I get it now.

And for the record, I am all for immigration as I am literally an immigrant.

NO ONE was talking about immigration in this thread in any way shape or form until she brought it up. It was cross-border shopping, missing family members a lot etc etc.

This is literally a falsehood that many Canadians accept as reality with no basis in our OWN situation. As a country, we simply cannot sustain our population without immigration. Mentioning immigration here is a promulgation (no clue if this is the correct Eng word) of the scapegoating of immigrants which has been festering south of the border.

And FYI, American immigrants to Canada have no clue the struggles of basic acceptance immigrants from non-Caucasian, non-Anglo areas have.

 

[StarSeven7]

NO ONE was talking about immigration in this thread in any way shape or form until she brought it up. It was cross-border shopping, missing family members a lot etc etc.

This is literally a falsehood that many Canadians accept as reality with no basis in our OWN situation. As a country, we simply cannot sustain our population without immigration. Mentioning immigration here is a promulgation (no clue if this is the correct Eng word) of the scapegoating of immigrants which has been festering south of the border.

And FYI, American immigrants to Canada have no clue the struggles of basic acceptance immigrants from non-Caucasian, non-Anglo areas have.

I agree and obviously politics has no place on these boards. It's just that as an American, its pretty frustrating for Canadians to label any views that they think as distasteful as "American." I've lived in Canada for 15 years and I've met many many Canadians who have never lived outside of the country who feel this way. I don't agree with them and I'm American.

And I agree, on the surface I look and sound "Canadian" so many don't know I'm American. But I would say a lot of Canadians in general have a pretty poor view of Americans, even if they like them as individuals. I've heard so many comments over the years about how much people dislike Americans or the US. My friends will sometimes forget they're talking to me and say something disparaging about Americans. My husband was even told not to date me by a friend who had never met me simply because I was American. So yeah, living here hasn't always been amazing for me either.

So this is all way off topic and will probably all get deleted but I just wanted you to see a bit from my point of view on the matter.

 

[Madame]

I agree and obviously politics has no place on these boards. It's just that as an American, its pretty frustrating for Canadians to label any views that they think as distasteful as "American." I've lived in Canada for 15 years and I've met many many Canadians who have never lived outside of the country who feel this way. I don't agree with them and I'm American.

And I agree, on the surface I look and sound "Canadian" so many don't know I'm American. But I would say a lot of Canadians in general have a pretty poor view of Americans, even if they like them as individuals. I've heard so many comments over the years about how much people dislike Americans or the US. My friends will sometimes forget they're talking to me and say something disparaging about Americans. My husband was even told not to date me by a friend who had never met me simply because I was American. So yeah, living here hasn't always been amazing for me either.

So this is all way off topic and will probably all get deleted but I just wanted you to see a bit from my point of view on the matter.

I totally see your point of view. But you see, I highly doubt the PP would think Canadians living in India (who cannot hold dual citizenship btw, they are only Canadians), for example, should be able to come home for a visit. And honestly, the US has to either own it or fix it.

 

[bababear_50]

Hi fellow Disers
Perhaps you could take the not on topic discussion to PM (Private Messaging)....now back to
our friendly discussion.

Hugs
Mel

 

[migel]

I scanned through the same article this morning. I tend to take them somewhat with a grain of salt, as they're easy to misconstrue the numbers. Obviously the largest number of cases is going to come from travel to the US, because that's where the largest amount of Canadian travel occurs. I note that the article didn't mention the number of people who've travelled to each area as a baseline to come up with a percentage. For example, when you look at the numbers for Ontario, US travel is 3.2x the number of cases compared to ones to the UK. Makes it sound like the US is 3.2 times as bad as the UK. But in reality, let's hypothetically say the US sees 100 times the number of visitors than the UK does (made up number, not based on any stat, just being used for mathematical demonstration purposes). Based on that the UK would be 31 times as bad to visit at the US.

Not that there's anything wrong with the data. We all know the US isn't exactly great at keeping this contained, and I'm not advocating to open the border. Just trying to put in perspective the way facts can get skewed, based on the angle you look at them. For example, from this site:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...ompare-canada-and-other-key-nations-1.4881500
Here's how the chart looks when you look at totals:

View attachment 491819

Looks like the US is absolutely horrendous compared to everyone else, but when you change the option at the top to compare based on a the average over 100K:

View attachment 491821

Suddenly things take a different picture.
[/QUOTE

I scanned through the same article this morning. I tend to take them somewhat with a grain of salt, as they're easy to misconstrue the numbers. Obviously the largest number of cases is going to come from travel to the US, because that's where the largest amount of Canadian travel occurs. I note that the article didn't mention the number of people who've travelled to each area as a baseline to come up with a percentage. For example, when you look at the numbers for Ontario, US travel is 3.2x the number of cases compared to ones to the UK. Makes it sound like the US is 3.2 times as bad as the UK. But in reality, let's hypothetically say the US sees 100 times the number of visitors than the UK does (made up number, not based on any stat, just being used for mathematical demonstration purposes). Based on that the UK would be 31 times as bad to visit at the US.

Not that there's anything wrong with the data. We all know the US isn't exactly great at keeping this contained, and I'm not advocating to open the border. Just trying to put in perspective the way facts can get skewed, based on the angle you look at them. For example, from this site:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...ompare-canada-and-other-key-nations-1.4881500
Here's how the chart looks when you look at totals:

View attachment 491819

Looks like the US is absolutely horrendous compared to everyone else, but when you change the option at the top to compare based on a the average over 100K:

View attachment 491821

Suddenly things take a different picture.

Understandably, there's a strong argument to maintain control of the border, however I agree, these stats need to be taken with a huge grain of salt. There is a strong media push currently, in attempts to divert blame for the outbreak, from the country of origin. And, certain governments are using this to their advantage, as a way to justify their neglect in not suspending incoming flights from those hot spots.

 

[ilovetotravel1977]

Back to potential vacation discussions

 

[Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina]

Seriously? This thread has turned ridiculously political. As a teacher of many immigrant ESL kids & a 3rd gen immigrant I find the persistence on « if immigrants are considered essential I should be able to come home for a visit from the country with the highest infection rate and zero plan » absolutely repulsive and very much contrary to the spirit of our country. I am very blunt & do not dance around this nonsense. You do you though. YMMV.

I am very blunt as well.

My comments were made as a Canadian, not an American. I was born in Canada and remain a Canadian, regardless of where my brick-and-mortar house might be at this particular moment.

My comments were also not a reflection of my opinion on politics or immigration. They were an explanation as to why i believe that the borders will not be closed until January 2021, as another poster suggested. "When you think the borders will open" was the whole subject of this thread. Anyone can throw out an arbitrary date, I chose to explain why I think they were wrong.

I am a citizen of one country currently living as a guest in another country. My views on immigration would likely surprise you. But my personal opinions are irrelevant and were not shared here, nor will they be.

I will be backing out of this discussion from here, however, as only alarmist predictions of an extended and indefinite closure seem to be welcome. And the fact that I'm sharing my unique perspective as a Canadian living abroad seems to be more than some folks can bear.

I wish you all well, and hope I can visit my home country sooner rather than later.

 

[Jrb1979]

I am very blunt as well.

My comments were made as a Canadian, not an American. I was born in Canada and remain a Canadian, regardless of where my brick-and-mortar house might be at this particular moment.

My comments were also not a reflection of my opinion on politics or immigration. They were an explanation as to why i believe that the borders will not be closed until January 2021, as another poster suggested. "When you think the borders will open" was the whole subject of this thread. Anyone can throw out an arbitrary date, I chose to explain why I think they were wrong.

I am a citizen of one country currently living as a guest in another country. My views on immigration would likely surprise you. But my personal opinions are irrelevant were not shared here, nor will they be.

I will be backing out of this discussion from here, however, as only alarmist predictions of an extended and indefinite closure seem to be welcome. And the fact that I'm sharing my unique perspective as a Canadian living abroad seems to be more than some folks can bear.

I wish you all well, and hope I can visit my home country sooner rather than later.

The borders will be open sooner rather than later but I believe the 14 day quarantine will be in place for awhile. Its all cause the U.S. is moving too quickly to get back to normal.

 

[pigletto]

Unfortunately unless we choose to shame and silence people with views that oppose our own, a discussion that is literally titled “When do you think the border will reopen ?” is going to be opinionated and a touchy subject during a global pandemic.

If not breaking board rules I truly think it does a disservice to silence people from productive and thoughtful discussion. Peoples lives are at stake ..it’s time to talk it out. If we can do so without resorting to attacks or politics it needs to be done . I don’t want to lose friends here and I hope we are all able to disagree and still come away with kindness and respect .. but I don’t feel we need to tell people how and what to post. It’s simple to just not read or respond.