When to repair a car vs cut losses and buy a new one? Update page 2

[BrianL]

The Celica is known as being nearly indestructible...and tons of fun. Neat car. Hopefully you didn't damage the engine by running it low on oil. That warning light usually won't come on until you're really low, and if you only had one quart left you were really low. But that little 4 cylinder engine is a trooper, so hopefully you'll be fine (you'll know quickly if it's damaged). There are a lot of things within the cylinder head. I would guess you have what are called "valve steam seals" wearing out. That will allow your engine to burn some oil. You may not notice the smoke if it doesn't burn enough at once, but it will still use it. Leaking around the timing chain cover is also fairly common...seals dry out as they age, especially if the car isn't driven much. If it's just the gasket around the cover that's leaking, it's a relatively cheap and easy repair. If the valve stem seals are leaking, that's more expensive. However, as long as it's not blowing smoke like it was trying to kill mosquitos and you keep an eye on your oil level (check it every month or so and add a little oil as needed) you can live with it like that virtually for ever. You're not really going to hurt the car by driving it that way, as long as you don't run it out of oil. So if that's the issue, you don't "have" to fix it, it can drive just fine that way.

Best thing I'd suggest is to get more clarity from a mechanic as to where the issue in the head is. Is it leaking externally? If there are no visible external leaks, then by default it's burning it internally (which is where my valve stem seal guess comes from...it's common). Then go from there. But either way, sounds more like a nuisance thing than something that MUST be dealt with. Most Celicas can go 250k+ miles. Toyotas in general are quite bulletproof. Darn shame they killed off the Celica and MR2. Left them without anything remotely sporty. They now have what was the Scion FR-S and is now a Toyota badge, but I'm not a fan.

Thank you. I never conciously ran it low on oil. That light came on and I took it right to the mechanic the next day, and did not drive far. I had it happen once before though, and again, did the same...right to the mechanic where they replaced a certain seal. That was over a year ago. I thought it was fixed after that. So, no, smoke that I noticed. Maybe I'll take it by and try to get an estimate, but other wise just watch the levels.

I do love my Celica, but going on 15 years, it has a few other issues and battle scars, but the engine always ran perfectly. Thanks so much!

 

[DawnM]

LOL. I think the cost of new tires on my Suburban is more than what it is worth. Probably has been for the last 3 sets of tires, but each of those sets of tires got me another 6 years on the road. Sales tax alone on a replacement car would be twice as much money, not even count the cost of the vehicle.
I look for the lowest cost per mile I just expect my cars to be worth nothing when I get rid of them.
Extensive collision damage or rust excepted, it is almost always cheaper to fix and replace over the long haul. I say almost, but in 44 years of car ownership, I have never seen a repair that wasn't cheaper than replacing the car.

Well, since you and I have already gone on rounds and rounds of this discussion, no need to dredge it back up.

 

[tvguy]

Well, since you and I have already gone on rounds and rounds of this discussion, no need to dredge it back up.

LOL. Nothing wrong with wanting a new car, or having a change in why type car you need. Just don't expect to save money over repairing a car. That's what the big fleet operators do. Post Office for one, expects 25 years out of each vehicle.

 

[DawnM]

LOL. Nothing wrong with wanting a new car, or having a change in why type car you need. Just don't expect to save money over repairing a car. That's what the big fleet operators do. Post Office for one, expects 25 years out of each vehicle.

Yes, I know, you have said it over and over again.

So, I guess we do want to go another round.

I need to get to work. I need a reliable car to do that, not three junkers where one or two are up on blocks or in the shop and I have to stress over it.

I keep my cars roughly 12-15 years. To me, that is a long time.

We have a financial resources to buy new or new to us cars, so we do it.

We also blessed a SAHM friend who couldn't afford a car replacement. They spent $1000 to get the immediate issue fixed and will spend the rest when they have the $$, which may never be, and that is fine too. I am happy they now have a car to get back and forth locally. I wouldn't trust that car for distance. it is a 2002.

I never said, "I want the absolute cheapest way to have a car possible." I don't need it and don't want it.

 

[tvguy]

Yes, I know, you have said it over and over again.

So, I guess we do want to go another round.

I need to get to work. I need a reliable car to do that, not three junkers where one or two are up on blocks or in the shop and I have to stress over it.

I keep my cars roughly 12-15 years. To me, that is a long time.

We have a financial resources to buy new or new to us cars, so we do it.

We also blessed a SAHM friend who couldn't afford a car replacement. They spent $1000 to get the immediate issue fixed and will spend the rest when they have the $$, which may never be, and that is fine too. I am happy they now have a car to get back and forth locally. I wouldn't trust that car for distance. it is a 2002.

I never said, "I want the absolute cheapest way to have a car possible." I don't need it and don't want it.

Certainly you can put value in the peace of mind. But you have to not only keep your cars up, you have to pay attention to how they are operating so they don't strand you. Not counting dead batteries*, my 30 year old Chevy has stranded me once, when a wire in the distributor failed.

*And if I had been paying closer attention to it being a bit harder to start and had the battery checked, I could have avoided that stranding.

 

[manning]

Since 1963 have owned 4 cars, all new.

Retirement is sweet.

 

[tvguy]

Since 1963 have owned 4 cars, all new.

Retirement is sweet.

Full disclosure. I'm just back from hanging with the Sunday Coffee and Cars group. They might have a different opinion on how long to keep a car.

 

[Klayfish]

Thank you. I never conciously ran it low on oil. That light came on and I took it right to the mechanic the next day, and did not drive far. I had it happen once before though, and again, did the same...right to the mechanic where they replaced a certain seal. That was over a year ago. I thought it was fixed after that. So, no, smoke that I noticed. Maybe I'll take it by and try to get an estimate, but other wise just watch the levels.

I do love my Celica, but going on 15 years, it has a few other issues and battle scars, but the engine always ran perfectly. Thanks so much!

Sorry, didn't mean to make the post read like you drove it low on oil on purpose. I have no doubt you didn't, you didn't know it had an issue. What I was trying to say is that if the engine was run while low on oil (enough to trip the light), it can cause trouble. It's not at all uncommon for an engine to start using oil and the owner never knows, unless they check the oil frequently. Oil circulates all around the engine, and there are numerous different seals that are designed to keep the oil where it's supposed to be. So it gives multiple spots where oil can leak, seep, get burned, etc...

manning, my wife probably wishes I would be more like you. I don't count exactly, but since 1996 (I had just one or two car since I started driving in 1990, but started going crazy in '96) I've had somewhere around 75-80 cars. Only 4 or 5 were new.

Have fun car shopping, Dawn. I'm addicted to it.

 

[BrianL]

Sorry, didn't mean to make the post read like you drove it low on oil on purpose. I have no doubt you didn't, you didn't know it had an issue. What I was trying to say is that if the engine was run while low on oil (enough to trip the light), it can cause trouble. It's not at all uncommon for an engine to start using oil and the owner never knows, unless they check the oil frequently. Oil circulates all around the engine, and there are numerous different seals that are designed to keep the oil where it's supposed to be. So it gives multiple spots where oil can leak, seep, get burned, etc...

Oh, you're fine. I was just trying to say that I HOPE it didn't go too long being low since I took it in quickly. Then again, I didn't check the levels habitually, so that's my fault.

I DID check it today before I went anywhere and it still reads full. It has been almost 4 weeks since the oil change where the mechanic found the leaks. I think that seeing that, I'll just keep an eye on those levels and and continue driving it for now. Thanks.

 

[manning]

Full disclosure. I'm just back from hanging with the Sunday Coffee and Cars group. They might have a different opinion on how long to keep a car.

93 Lincoln still going.

 

[scrapquitler]

I took my 2008 highlander/sport in to have new spark plugs done yesterday. Nothing was wrong, but I have just over 100k miles and I was told it was a good thing to do. Car runs great, no problems, dh and I were just saying we would love to get a lot more life out of it.

Got a call from mechanic that they found seepage and recommend replacing head gasket, water pump, timing cover, and some other stuff to the tune of $4500. So now we are trying to decide if it's worth it or to just start looking for a new car. I love not having a car payment. We don't have the $ to buy a car outright right now. So I'm leaning towards fixing but dh thinks cutting losses might be better. Wwyd?

100,000 miles? Your car is almost brand new.

I've got a 2008 Subaru Outback. I've got 174K miles on it right now, and a couple months ago they told me that my head gasket is going bad and needs to be replace sometime, and it's going to be something like $2500 or more. They warned me about it two years ago, too, and we just said we'd wait and see. They turned off the check engine light for me, and I've been driving in blissful ignorance ever since, and plan to just keep driving until I can't drive it anymore. My cousin who is a mechanic says its safe to do that for now, so that's what I'm going to do.

 

[Monykalyn]

Toyotas in general are quite bulletproof

This is what I keep telling my DH! He keeps trying to get me to trade in my 2001 4Runner. ah-no. not gonna happen. 208K on it and due for it's maintenance and tune up. New in '01 when I bought it (my first "grown up" car that was totally mine and not a joint purchase with DH). I detail it a couple times a year and other than some wear (and scratches now on hood where I stupidly put a bin when getting Christmas stuff shuffled around in garage) looks like new. Handful of recalls over the last 16 years while my DH last TWO dodge caravans have had dozens of recalls! He's moved on to a CRV now LOL.
My goal is at least 500k out of my beloved truck

 

[mrodgers]

We went through this with dealership also. Their estimate $2700 or mechanic actual cost $580. Our mechanic explained that dealerships & big chains set a price for every task whether it costs that or not. They estimate time it takes for repair not the actual time it takes. So dealership says it takes 3 hours when it actually takes 1, you still pay the 3. They mark up the price of parts by as much as 200%.

Since how they figure labor has been mentioned, here's a little more info so you (collective you) understand.

Every repair job has a book time. They write up the estimate based on what the book says the labor time will be. This time is based on doing everything exact with taking things apart to access for the repair. The mechanics are then worked to the bone and expected to beat the time. They pay the mechanics the same book time, so if the repair states 3 hours labor, the dealer charges the customer for 3 hours at say $120/hour and pay their mechanic $16/hour at the stated 3 hour book time. If the mechanic has a different and simpler way of accessing the repair (short-cutting the repair) then they can get it done in less than 3 hours and get paid for the full 3 hours. But, if there are problems and it takes the mechanic 6 hours to do the repair, they still only get paid for 3.

Example, I went to the shop my brother-in-law works in after hours so we could use the lift and his tools. We had to replace a ball-joint. The book stated 2.5 hours of which we had to pull the wheel, disassemble the locking hub from it being a 4x4 truck, pull the suspension a-arms all apart, pull the ball-joint, replace, and put it all back together.

Instead of disassembling the hub and disassembling the suspension to get the ball-joint out, we just unbolted the joint, pulled up on the suspension with a pry-bar, and pulled and replaced the hub. 4 bolts back in and we were done. 2.5 hours labor I would have paid a dealer shop took us literally 5 minutes from start to finish. Probably would have taken me an hour to disassemble everything and an hour to reassemble at least. Took me longer to take the lug nuts off the wheel than it did to continue and replace the ball-joint.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Since how they figure labor has been mentioned, here's a little more info so you (collective you) understand.

Every repair job has a book time. They write up the estimate based on what the book says the labor time will be. This time is based on doing everything exact with taking things apart to access for the repair. The mechanics are then worked to the bone and expected to beat the time. They pay the mechanics the same book time, so if the repair states 3 hours labor, the dealer charges the customer for 3 hours at say $120/hour and pay their mechanic $16/hour at the stated 3 hour book time. If the mechanic has a different and simpler way of accessing the repair (short-cutting the repair) then they can get it done in less than 3 hours and get paid for the full 3 hours. But, if there are problems and it takes the mechanic 6 hours to do the repair, they still only get paid for 3.

Example, I went to the shop my brother-in-law works in after hours so we could use the lift and his tools. We had to replace a ball-joint. The book stated 2.5 hours of which we had to pull the wheel, disassemble the locking hub from it being a 4x4 truck, pull the suspension a-arms all apart, pull the ball-joint, replace, and put it all back together.

Instead of disassembling the hub and disassembling the suspension to get the ball-joint out, we just unbolted the joint, pulled up on the suspension with a pry-bar, and pulled and replaced the hub. 4 bolts back in and we were done. 2.5 hours labor I would have paid a dealer shop took us literally 5 minutes from start to finish. Probably would have taken me an hour to disassemble everything and an hour to reassemble at least. Took me longer to take the lug nuts off the wheel than it did to continue and replace the ball-joint.

The REAL issue is the dealer recommended fixing every place antifreeze CAN leak from the car whereas the independent mechanic recommended fixing the ONE place where it was ACTUALLY leaking.

 

[Watni?Dis-Knee]

Better to check the truck parts and accessories and do preventive maintenance to save money. You can do a penny test on the tires to know the tread depth and if it needs replacement. Simply insert a penny into the tread groove of the tire (make sure to face Lincoln's head upside down and facing you). If you can only see Lincoln's head, the tread depth of the tire is less than 2/32 inch. That's time to replace your tires.

 

[Nancyg56]

This is what I keep telling my DH! He keeps trying to get me to trade in my 2001 4Runner. ah-no. not gonna happen. 208K on it and due for it's maintenance and tune up. New in '01 when I bought it (my first "grown up" car that was totally mine and not a joint purchase with DH). I detail it a couple times a year and other than some wear (and scratches now on hood where I stupidly put a bin when getting Christmas stuff shuffled around in garage) looks like new. Handful of recalls over the last 16 years while my DH last TWO dodge caravans have had dozens of recalls! He's moved on to a CRV now LOL.
My goal is at least 500k out of my beloved truck

I am in that discussion right now. My 2004 Highlander got hit a while back and the kid damaged three quarter panels. My car has 189,000 miles on it and was still running pretty good, IMO> It needs tires and there is a leaky thing starting underneath. We live in CT and there is a lot of salt on the roads, so I guess there is some rotting underneath too. DH has been insistent that I get rid of it and get a new one. Well new to me, I refuse to pay full price for a car ever again.

I love my car and would keep it until it kicks the bucket completely, but dh says it is going to start costing more money to repair and he wasn't to be done with that. I have to agree about now, you know how when an elder falls down things just are not always the same? My poor car has been acting like that since it got hit.

 

[sam_gordon]

That's what the big fleet operators do. Post Office for one, expects 25 years out of each vehicle.

Of course big fleet operators not only have mechanics on staff (or at least an arrangement with some), they also have enough vehicles that if one (or more) is in the shop for extended periods, they can get by. My company has about a 12-16 vehicles. It's extremely rare that all are on the road at the same time. So having one (or two) in the shop just means those people move into other vehicles. Most families don't have that option. Comparing fleets to families is apples to oranges IMO.

 

[tvguy]

Of course big fleet operators not only have mechanics on staff (or at least an arrangement with some), they also have enough vehicles that if one (or more) is in the shop for extended periods, they can get by. My company has about a 12-16 vehicles. It's extremely rare that all are on the road at the same time. So having one (or two) in the shop just means those people move into other vehicles. Most families don't have that option. Comparing fleets to families is apples to oranges IMO.

LOL. 30 cars here, 40 at the my wife's place. No mechanic on staff. At least here it is like pulling teeth to get approval to get a car in for repair or finding a shop that wants out business.. Repair place don't like to wait 90 days for payment.

 

[sam_gordon]

LOL. 30 cars here, 40 at the my wife's place. No mechanic on staff. At least here it is like pulling teeth to get approval to get a car in for repair or finding a shop that wants out business.. Repair place don't like to wait 90 days for payment.

The point still stands... with enough vehicles, you can afford to send one (or more) to the shop or even leave it parked and not used. Families generally don't have that option. Waiting 90 days for payment? If that's your company's SOP, I'd avoid working with them also. If you can put off repairs, then you have enough vehicles. Again, most families can't do that.

 

[tvguy]

The point still stands... with enough vehicles, you can afford to send one (or more) to the shop or even leave it parked and not used. Families generally don't have that option. Waiting 90 days for payment? If that's your company's SOP, I'd avoid working with them also. If you can put off repairs, then you have enough vehicles. Again, most families can't do that.

LOL. When I worked for Sinclair, 120 days was the normal wait for payment. But I understand, but because of my crazy work hours, I have had at least one spare car since 1986.