WWYD concerning commercial vehicle parked next door

[Kellydelly]

Doesn't John Deere make riding lawn mowers also? A manufacturer's name alone won't meet the legal requirements. The more pertinent info is probably within the parameters contained in "Parking and storage of larger vehicles for farming or lumbering operations is permitted in the AG Districts if the Planning Commission ...... "
If the truck owner can show they tick the correct boxes laid out in that language, or if they have some kind of sign off from the Planning Commission they may be allowed to park their truck in their driveway.

I was reading the verbage and was like, "oh maybe they can get around it", but it says in AG districts which I don't think we are in. We should be residential. We are in a subdivision.

 

[cabanafrau]

Yes, John Deere makes riding mowers. But their Google profile lists their primary business being "agriculture, construction and lumber" equipment manufacturing and repairs. I don't think a guy fixing riding mowers needs a rig like that. You could ask your neighbor what he does for them.

No matter the category John Deere's customers fall in, John Deere's primary business is not "agriculture, construction and lumber" as you suggest. Their primary business is equipment manufacturing. Therefore attempting to bootstrap the argument that a truck with John Deere plastered on it somewhere qualifies it as an agricultural exemption is absurd.

 

[Kellydelly]

And that's assuming not taking it home is an option. DH has his work vehicle 24/7 because when they used to overnight them at the plant, they had too many issues with break-ins (for the tools), parts theft, and vandalism. So the guys who are issued a company vehicle *have* to take it home. It was the same when my mom was working for the state; at times, they had a hard time finding people who wanted to be bothered taking the agency cars home because they weren't supposed to be used in off hours, but they couldn't be left in the office lot so someone had to do so.



Maybe I'm picturing the wrong thing when I hear "5.5 ton truck", but I've never known anyone who owned one for personal use. Travel trailers are usually towed with one-ton pickups with dual axles, in my experience. A 5.5 ton truck is likely to be a box truck, dump truck, or other strictly commercial/industrial vehicle.



I think people would be more sympathetic in that case, since what you're talking about would be an ordinary vehicle (van or pickup) with a commercial sticker on the side. A multiple-ton commercial truck is something entirely different, in terms of noise, in terms of size, in terms or weight and wear on roads/driveways. If the OP had come here complaining about her neighbor bringing home a white panel van with a company logo, she'd probably have gotten a lot more "just let it be" responses, but if the truck is really 5 ton, as she stated, that's a really big, really loud vehicle. More like if the garbageman or UPS guy decided to drive his work vehicle home than the neighborhood plumber doing the same.

The truck is this type with the lift/crane on it

 

[cabanafrau]

I was reading the verbage and was like, "oh maybe they can get around it", but it says in AG districts which I don't think we are in. We should be residential. We are in a subdivision.

That's absolutely going to be what determines if they can or cannot. The devil is in the details. Hopefully the ordinance is well written and the answer can be determined from the plain and ordinary meaning of the words on their face.

 

[cabanafrau]

Yeah, but as others have said, life has a way of changing. I grew up in a community with an anti-commercial vehicle ordinance and when my mom bought the house there, I'm sure she wasn't thinking that 1) her agency would have company cars (workers used their own vehicles for field work until the 90s) or 2) that the neighborhood she worked in would become so rough/poor that company cars couldn't be left overnight. But as I mentioned in a previous post, I think people are more understanding and willing to look the other way when the offending commercial vehicle is an ordinary vehicle with a company logo, because none of our neighbors ever complained about her bringing the state car (a Ford Focus) home and the city never seemed to notice. I'm sure she'd have found a workaround if she needed to, but back then, I think people were less likely to get nosy/upset about letter-of-the-law violations... in our neighborhood, at least, they reserved their anger for things like what the OP is dealing with, large, loud commercial vehicles.

I did personally steer clear of HOAs and communities with strict restrictions when we bought, partly because of that. For a long time, DH was in business for himself and had a company logo on the side of his pickup - nothing commercial grade, just an F250 with a locking cap - and I didn't want to deal with living in a place where a vinyl logo on the door would make the difference between it being acceptable or unacceptable to own that same make & model. And it turned out to be a good call because now he's got a work van that is at his disposal 24/7. Again, nothing that would bother the neighbors - a Ford Transit Connect, it is actually smaller and quieter than my minivan - but still, it does have a company logo so in some neighborhoods it would be a problem. One of his friends lives in an HOA community and has gotten reminders about the commercial vehicle ordinance just because DH was over there visiting. In the space of a single afternoon, someone took it upon themselves to complain about his van being in his friend's driveway.

I doubt many people have the attitude that they want to stick it to their neighbors just because rules give them the means, or that they're not sympathetic if they choose to hold their neighbors accountable to uphold the rules that everyone bought into with full understanding. An HOA arbitrarily waiving rules can easily open Pandora's box, leading to consequences nobody anticipated. Like I said upthread, lawyers reap the benefits out of HOA battles and many lick their chops at the windfall they know is headed their way.

It's not only legal bills for this skirmish the residents have to be wary of. A little overlooking this, a little wink and a nod to that, what's effectively a sympathy waiver there and suddenly in the future a completely new issue arises, that resident is denied and hauls the HOA into court and uses the past history as precedent, claiming they are reasonably entitled to expect the same leniency. The HOA has incurred a lot of legal fees, the homeowner wins, many in the association are upset and/or "injured" by the waiver awarded to the homeowner who brought the complaint and people are starting to move out over dissatisfaction with the latest change. Sales aren't as easy because the changes make the neighborhood less appealing and values fall. Buyers are also wary because they are aware of the homeowners facing assessments for legal bills. Suddenly the homeowners in the association are watching the value they've invested in their homes erode. Your mother's employer may not have been located in an HOA, but it is representative of unforeseen consequences of declining property values. That's part of the philosophy people buy into an HOA to prevent.

 

[SteveH]

Wait, you complained because there was mud on the street?

We're not talking a just a bit of mug we're talking a large amount, and frequently in the fall and spring and he would never clean it up.

 

[tvguy]

No matter the category John Deere's customers fall in, John Deere's primary business is not "agriculture, construction and lumber" as you suggest. Their primary business is equipment manufacturing. Therefore attempting to bootstrap the argument that a truck with John Deere plastered on it somewhere qualifies it as an agricultural exemption is absurd.

Local ordinances are often absurd. Thei John Deere website says their primary business is agriculture, construct and lumber equipment, so you can take that up with them. But that is why I asked the OP how the local ordinance defined commercial vehice and exemptions. I suspect if this is a take home vehicle that this person is on call for emergencies. So it's clear to me that it is possible that this vehicle falls into the exempt category

 

[tvguy]

But we live in a residential district, not the AG district which was the exclusion.

Ah, okay, I misunderstood. I thought it was if the vehicle was used in agriculture.

 

[barkley]

I was reading the verbage and was like, "oh maybe they can get around it", but it says in AG districts which I don't think we are in. We should be residential. We are in a subdivision.

easy enough to find out. most places if you go into their online county assessor's website you can pull up your address and then look for a field or tab that is designated 'zoning'. it should show what you are officially designated.

 

[cabanafrau]

Yes, John Deere makes riding mowers. But their Google profile lists their primary business being "agriculture, construction and lumber" equipment manufacturing and repairs. I don't think a guy fixing riding mowers needs a rig like that. You could ask your neighbor what he does for them.

Local ordinances are often absurd. Thei John Deere website says their primary business is agriculture, construct and lumber equipment, so you can take that up with them. But that is why I asked the OP how the local ordinance defined commercial vehice and exemptions. I suspect if this is a take home vehicle that this person is on call for emergencies. So it's clear to me that it is possible that this vehicle falls into the exempt category

I based my comments on your first post above -- your words. Now you respond with what you represent the company website says. I wonder, would they actually deny they are a manufacturer, claiming instead they are in the business of agriculture, construction and lumber? I doubt it.

 

[GreatLakes]

That would be perfectly allowed where I live (no HOA thank God) and I really wouldn't care. If our neighbor wants to park what looks like a utility truck in their driveway more power to them. No way it is any louder than the guy with a Harley that apparently goes to work at 5am. It doesn't even wake us up any more, we are used to it.

As for this situation, the devil is in the details as others have alluded to. I would talk to the neighbor first before involving the HOA or city/township and if that doesn't work let them work it out. Maybe it will be allowed, maybe it won't, but it will need to go through whatever process the HOA or city/township has.

 

[tvguy]

I based my comments on your first post above -- your words. Now you respond with what you represent the company website says. I wonder, would they actually deny they are a manufacturer, claiming instead they are in the business of agriculture, construction and lumber? I doubt it.

I can see a government exempting them if that vehicle is used in support of agriculture and lumber. Doesen't mean the local government agrees. That vehicle is clearly not a manufacturing vehicle, but a repair vehicle.

 

[cabanafrau]

I can see a government exempting them if that vehicle is used in support of agriculture and lumber. Doesen't mean the local government agrees. That vehicle is clearly not a manufacturing vehicle, but a repair vehicle.

If I understand correctly you've seen a photo of the vehicle in question, but it's not been posted to the thread for obvious reasons.

You can move the goalposts all you want, but this tangent of the conversation originated from your statement that because the vehicle somehow has the words John Deere on it qualifies it as agricultural, which I have disputed, and still do.

John Deere is an equipment manufacturer, some of which is used in the agricultural industry.

Now you state that the vehicle is clearly not a manufacturing vehicle, but a repair vehicle -- your words. I'll take your word on it, as I've not seen the picture, nor do I need to. The ordinance does not provide an allowance for repair vehicles from my understanding.

Send the coordinates so I can input to my GPS to locate the new goalposts.

 

[tvguy]

If I understand correctly you've seen a photo of the vehicle in question, but it's not been posted to the thread for obvious reasons.

You can move the goalposts all you want, but this tangent of the conversation originated from your statement that because the vehicle somehow has the words John Deere on it qualifies it as agricultural, which I have disputed, and still do.

John Deere is an equipment manufacturer, some of which is used in the agricultural industry.

Now you state that the vehicle is clearly not a manufacturing vehicle, but a repair vehicle -- your words. I'll take your word on it, as I've not seen the picture, nor do I need to. The ordinance does not provide an allowance for repair vehicles from my understanding.

Send the coordinates so I can input to my GPS to locate the new goalposts.

Yes, OP sent me a photo of the actual truck, but OP also posted in post 103 a nearly identical vehicle. And yes, it is marked as a John Deere Service vehicle. I think your questions need to be directed at OP, if OP has talked to local officials as to what is, and isn't allowed.

 

[cabanafrau]

Yes, OP sent me a photo of the actual truck, but OP also posted in post 103 a nearly identical vehicle. And yes, it is marked as a John Deere Service vehicle. I think your questions need to be directed at OP, if OP has talked to local officials as to what is, and isn't allowed.

OP isn't the one making the definitive statements.

 

[nkereina]

Yeah, but as others have said, life has a way of changing. I grew up in a community with an anti-commercial vehicle ordinance and when my mom bought the house there, I'm sure she wasn't thinking that 1) her agency would have company cars (workers used their own vehicles for field work until the 90s) or 2) that the neighborhood she worked in would become so rough/poor that company cars couldn't be left overnight. But as I mentioned in a previous post, I think people are more understanding and willing to look the other way when the offending commercial vehicle is an ordinary vehicle with a company logo, because none of our neighbors ever complained about her bringing the state car (a Ford Focus) home and the city never seemed to notice. I'm sure she'd have found a workaround if she needed to, but back then, I think people were less likely to get nosy/upset about letter-of-the-law violations... in our neighborhood, at least, they reserved their anger for things like what the OP is dealing with, large, loud commercial vehicles.

Yes, life does have a way of changing, but as I said up-thread - this is a risk you take when you move into an HOA. Most adults realize unanticipated things can arise at any time, so one has to decide whether the house/neighborhood/location/amenities are worth potentially being caught between a rock and a hard place in the event the HOA bylaws suddenly become problematic. Is it worth it to live somewhere without an HOA so that never becomes a problem for you, or is it worth taking your chances that it may never be a problem and you'll cross that bridge with a workaround, if you come to it. Everyone will have a different answer to that.

But, in the case of town/city ordinances, I have a little more sympathy. Its relatively easy in most places to avoid living in an HOA, but not always so easy to live in a different town.

 

[tvguy]

OP isn't the one making the definitive statements.

Sorry, not meant to be definative, just spectulation based on how many other communites write their laws. Sort of like with the pandemic, the folks listed in the first tier for vaccines as healthcare workers includes everyone in the hospital, not just folks directly involved in patient care......but in support of those people.
This is a photo of a very similar service vehicle. If a farmer's equipment breaks down, they can't get their crop in, I can see where an exemption might be made for service vehicles on 24 hour call in support of ag or lumber

https://www.nicholsfleet.com/products/ag-service-equipment

 

[Colleen27]

View attachment 560373
The truck is this type with the lift/crane on it

Yeah, that's nuts. You wouldn't be able to get away with parking that in my community, and we've got pretty lax ordinances about commercial vehicles and parking areas (and no HOA).

Yes, life does have a way of changing, but as I said up-thread - this is a risk you take when you move into an HOA. Most adults realize unanticipated things can arise at any time, so one has to decide whether the house/neighborhood/location/amenities are worth potentially being caught between a rock and a hard place in the event the HOA bylaws suddenly become problematic. Is it worth it to live somewhere without an HOA so that never becomes a problem for you, or is it worth taking your chances that it may never be a problem and you'll cross that bridge with a workaround, if you come to it. Everyone will have a different answer to that.

But, in the case of town/city ordinances, I have a little more sympathy. Its relatively easy in most places to avoid living in an HOA, but not always so easy to live in a different town.

That's why I find HOAs so scary, because it isn't just life that can change - it is also the HOA. I have a friend who bought in the first phase of a planned community that was meant to be family-oriented, good school district, community amenities like a pool and playground, etc. But then the housing crash and recession happened and the builder revised the community emphasis to target older, more established (read: can still afford to own) homeowners... and since the HOA is a straight-up democracy with few limits, the majority of the board soon become late-middle-aged and senior residents, which led to all sorts of essentially anti-child rules like no backyard fencing, no play equipment, no above ground pools, no sidewalk chalk, no riding bikes on sidewalks or streets, "adults only" hours at prime pool times, etc. But they were stuck, because they'd bought when things were still booming and were too underwater to sell and move somewhere that would allow the kids to play. I was already somewhat skeptical about HOAs to begin with but that really cemented my sense that I'd never buy in one.

City/town ordinances are harder to avoid and unfortunately seem to be sort of "contagious", so when one community decides to target a certain thing, whether that's commercial vehicles or boat parking standards or a breed of dog, neighboring communities often follow suit. Which isn't always bad - the trend in my area right now is to allow limited use of golf carts and other small vehicles on residential streets, and it started with one city passing an ordinance to allow it and now it is allowed in pretty much every community in the area - but does make it hard to escape "trending" ordinance changes.

 

[nkereina]

That's why I find HOAs so scary, because it isn't just life that can change - it is also the HOA. I have a friend who bought in the first phase of a planned community that was meant to be family-oriented, good school district, community amenities like a pool and playground, etc. But then the housing crash and recession happened and the builder revised the community emphasis to target older, more established (read: can still afford to own) homeowners... and since the HOA is a straight-up democracy with few limits, the majority of the board soon become late-middle-aged and senior residents, which led to all sorts of essentially anti-child rules like no backyard fencing, no play equipment, no above ground pools, no sidewalk chalk, no riding bikes on sidewalks or streets, "adults only" hours at prime pool times, etc. But they were stuck, because they'd bought when things were still booming and were too underwater to sell and move somewhere that would allow the kids to play. I was already somewhat skeptical about HOAs to begin with but that really cemented my sense that I'd never buy in one.

The risk one takes when buying into an HOA that's still in the construction phase is that the promises made by the builder can change at any point until control shifts to the HOA. We have a development in the town that was being sold as patio homes with included maintenance. When they realized those were hard to sell, they changed the remaining lots to single family homes with no maintenance. So now the patio homeowners have families as neighbors that they likely never wanted, and the HOA has to maintain separate dues for the patio homes to ensure they still get their included maintenance.

When one moves into an existing HOA, its a bit different. I don't know anything about your friend's HOA, but a legitimate and legally operated one will have rules governing board seats and the quorum needed to approve new rules. There are generally controls in place to ensure fairness and prevent radical changes, and these are typically reviewed by a lawyer. I would question whether the HOA in this scenario had all power relegated to board members only, because that defeats the purpose of the HOA - it allows all homeowners who pay dues to have a say. Similar to a labor union. There was most likely a vote that approved these changes. The people who can't be bothered to be part of that process are often the ones that complain the loudest.

In ours, we need to reach a quorum to even have a vote (through in person or proxy) and then I believe 2/3 of the quorum has to approve the changes. This is yet another reason why its important for buyers to familiarize themselves with the documentation of the HOA they are thinking about moving into, so they don't cry foul later.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

If its farm equipment, I'm envisioning the mud was in big chunks and an exorbitant amount. Not something you expect to deal with on what I presume is a residential street. People drive through it, track it in the driveway, track it in the garage. Pets and kids step in it and ride bikes through it. The owner should at least clean it up, unless the equipment was not permitted in the first place...

My neighborhood is still developing though we're getting close to being done. I've got 2 homes on my street presently being built. Mud isn't just mud all the time. I can see how it might seem like a silly complaint but whenever the construction vehicles (which include bobcats, all sorts of trucks like concrete mixers, lumber vehicles, etc) in addition to people's work and personal vehicles for the construction site they tend to leave a lot of debris mud included. We deal with it for months and months at a time but at least eventually you get some peace. That wouldn't be the same for the PP.

We also get a lot of gravel/rocks on the road which suck TBH. There's a spot on one of our roads where a bit of concrete got dumped. Years later it's still there but at least it's been grounded down to not be a big bump anymore as vehicles have traversed the road enough.

Around here sometimes the builders do get called out for things. Sometimes it's starting construction work prior to the time the city allows for it, sometimes it's dumping concrete and lumber in lots that say no dumping, sometimes it's for general cleanliness of the workers which that can be a persistent problem of water bottles, energy drinks and other trash left. Some of this seems silly to complain about to other people but honestly sometimes it's really not silly at all.