You CAN split a lockoff

[mjc2003]

There was some discussion about this a few months ago, I was told that I could split a lock off and several people had responded and said that they were not allowed to do so. I was able to do this yesterday, we split one of our 2 lock offs in October at the beach club, we kept only the studio. I know some people are against the idea of allowing this, I personally feel like it's helping another family out and if we weren't allowed to split we would've just kept the room and not used it. Nobody wins in that scenario. However, I am not updating this topic to reopen the debate as much as I am just letting people know that this can be done. I spoke with three supervisors over the last several months, and all confirmed this is now allowed. The only conditions are that the same cancellation timeline applies for banking, etc, and ALL nights must be forfeited on the room you're dropping.

So to whoever just got a wait list filled at Beach club in late October for a one bedroom, you are welcome!

 

[ldo]

so do you mean that you could keep the studio side and canx the other side---and did MS tell you that no other studios were available vs. just rebooking the studio? That would be really great, as at 11 months out, sometimes we don't know how many are going, but if it is just our family, the 1 BR is fine.

 

[hakepb]

The split is not as much of an issue as the rejoin . Back in the days when weekends were 2x weekdays, more members wanted to drop from a 2BR to a 1BR or studio for just the weekend...which would result in a potentially stranded room for 2 days. This may be less of an issue thanks to the point reallocations.

Otherwise, whatever is easier on the hotel's management is what they should be allowed to do.

 

[Dean]

There was some discussion about this a few months ago, I was told that I could split a lock off and several people had responded and said that they were not allowed to do so. I was able to do this yesterday, we split one of our 2 lock offs in October at the beach club, we kept only the studio. I know some people are against the idea of allowing this, I personally feel like it's helping another family out and if we weren't allowed to split we would've just kept the room and not used it. Nobody wins in that scenario. However, I am not updating this topic to reopen the debate as much as I am just letting people know that this can be done. I spoke with three supervisors over the last several months, and all confirmed this is now allowed. The only conditions are that the same cancellation timeline applies for banking, etc, and ALL nights must be forfeited on the room you're dropping.

So to whoever just got a wait list filled at Beach club in late October for a one bedroom, you are welcome!

Historically this has not been possible but it can often be done if the unit is available. However, there is some indication this may have changed due to the system changes a year or two back. In addition DVC is nothing if not inconsistent so this type of thing often varies with who you get when you call. Likely others will be told no coming up and respond.

 

[rwcmath]

There was some discussion about this a few months ago, I was told that I could split a lock off and several people had responded and said that they were not allowed to do so. I was able to do this yesterday, we split one of our 2 lock offs in October at the beach club, we kept only the studio. I know some people are against the idea of allowing this, I personally feel like it's helping another family out and if we weren't allowed to split we would've just kept the room and not used it. Nobody wins in that scenario. However, I am not updating this topic to reopen the debate as much as I am just letting people know that this can be done. I spoke with three supervisors over the last several months, and all confirmed this is now allowed. The only conditions are that the same cancellation timeline applies for banking, etc, and ALL nights must be forfeited on the room you're dropping.

So to whoever just got a wait list filled at Beach club in late October for a one bedroom, you are welcome!

What do you mean by "All nights must be forfeited on the room you're dropping." Are you paying for what you are not using?

 

[kristenrice]

If this is true, it couldn't have happened at a better time. We are planning on going next October and staying in a 1BR value at AKV. My sister is thinking about joining us, but she won't know for sure until Feb or Mar. If she joins us, we'd need a 2BR value which will certainly be gone by the time she can confirm. If this is true, I can just book the 2BR at 11 months and drop the studio if my sister can't come. Honestly, I don't like the policy, even though in this case, it would work in my favor. Here's why... If I have an option of booking a 2BR dedicated or 2BR lock off and I book the lock off, just in case I bring friends, I have just tied up a studio and a 1BR. If said friends do come along, I have now taken up a 1BR AND a studio and 2 families may miss out on a vacation. I know, it is allowed and there is nothing wrong with it, but it still doesn't sit right with me.

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[mjc2003]

so do you mean that you could keep the studio side and canx the other side---and did MS tell you that no other studios were available vs. just rebooking the studio? That would be really great, as at 11 months out, sometimes we don't know how many are going, but if it is just our family, the 1 BR is fine.

It's BCV in Mid-October, so I'd assume no studios were available for any nights, let alone 7. I had the option of keeping either the studio or the 1br, we chose to keep the studio. The 1br went back into inventory (presumably to somebody's waitlist). So yes, you can cancel either side of the 2br.

What do you mean by "All nights must be forfeited on the room you're dropping." Are you paying for what you are not using?

I have the lockoff for 7 nights. If I want to drop either portion (in this case the 1br), I must drop/forfeit ALL 7 nights. I was originally paying 278 points for the lockoff, now I'm paying 107 for the studio and 171 points were returned to me. I'm not paying for the room I'm forfeiting, if I was I would just keep it!

If this is true, it couldn't have happened at a better time. We are planning on going next October and staying in a 1BR value at AKV. My sister is thinking about joining us, but she won't know for sure until Feb or Mar. If she joins us, we'd need a 2BR value which will certainly be gone by the time she can confirm. If this is true, I can just book the 2BR at 11 months and drop the studio if my sister can't come. Honestly, I don't like the policy, even though in this case, it would work in my favor. Here's why... If I have an option of booking a 2BR dedicated or 2BR lock off and I book the lock off, just in case I bring friends, I have just tied up a studio and a 1BR. If said friends do come along, I have now taken up a 1BR AND a studio and 2 families may miss out on a vacation. I know, it is allowed and there is nothing wrong with it, but it still doesn't sit right with me.

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This was the issue raised before. My counter argument is that as an owner booking at 11 months we would have our pick of whatever we want. So the family that is losing out on the 1br/studio didn't have home booking rights at 11 months. In other words, while I aim to be considerate, I can't worry at the 11 month window about how my decisions might affect somebody 4 months later. This system is predicated on booking early and buying where you want to stay, especially during peak times.
To be honest, the last time I brought this up the arguments became very circular; I get both sides. I just wanted to report first hand that it's allowed, and I did it yesterday.

Of course with regards to your situation, I would call MS and book over the phone or at least get clarification in writing (they can note this on your account), DVC isn't exactly the standard bearer for consistency.

 

[luckyman_apd]

The only thing that concerns me is the points difference. It has always been a major curiousity concern of mine about lock offs and how many are allocated for 2br, and how many are reserved for studio/1br. If you book it as a 2 br, it is less points than if it were booked as a studio and a 1 br separately. So if a 2br lock off is booked, and then one part is cancelled, and rebooked as the other half....then more points are being used then originally accounted for. If this happens often, then theoretically open rooms will exist as a shortage of member points.

 

[Dean]

The only thing that concerns me is the points difference. It has always been a major curiousity concern of mine about lock offs and how many are allocated for 2br, and how many are reserved for studio/1br. If you book it as a 2 br, it is less points than if it were booked as a studio and a 1 br separately. So if a 2br lock off is booked, and then one part is cancelled, and rebooked as the other half....then more points are being used then originally accounted for. If this happens often, then theoretically open rooms will exist as a shortage of member points.

This has always been the case no matter when or how the smaller units are booked. Legally they must account for the villas as if they are all booked non lockoff. Thus the more lockoff components are booked at the higher points, the more villas unaccounted for with points over a given year. They can't guess at it like a hotel would do by overbooking. I haven't really put much thought into how those rooms would be used but my first thoughts would suggest that the villas in the resorts of higher demand would all get filled and it'd all boil down to the least in demand resort. Thus any extra rooms would be in that resort. If ultimately unused I'd assume they'd be used for maintenance and then to breakage inventory. It's one of the potential leaks of the system as is the orphaned days here or there related to the single day reservation method.

 

[luckyman_apd]

This has always been the case no matter when or how the smaller units are booked. Legally they must account for the villas as if they are all booked non lockoff. Thus the more lockoff components are booked at the higher points, the more villas unaccounted for with points over a given year. They can't guess at it like a hotel would do by overbooking. I haven't really put much thought into how those rooms would be used but my first thoughts would suggest that the villas in the resorts of higher demand would all get filled and it'd all boil down to the least in demand resort. Thus any extra rooms would be in that resort. If ultimately unused I'd assume they'd be used for maintenance and then to breakage inventory. It's one of the potential leaks of the system as is the orphaned days here or there related to the single day reservation method.

Ok...so if I am following this correctly, the account the points for non lock off, meaning they count studio plus 1br NOT 2 br. If this is the case then every time a member books a lock off, then they are getting rooms for less points than accounted for which would result in owners with points without rooms available?

 

[Dean]

Ok...so if I am following this correctly, the account the points for non lock off, meaning they count studio plus 1br NOT 2 br. If this is the case then every time a member books a lock off, then they are getting rooms for less points than accounted for which would result in owners with points without rooms available?

No, I think you have it backwards. Assume all lockoff's were booked as a 2 BR plus all dedicated units and that's the required accounting. Then IF any of the smaller units are booked separate, that takes more points and leaves units not booked without points to book them. Obviously it trickles down so it'll be only the least demand resort and generally the lowest demand days. In the big scheme of things it's pretty nominal but likely enough to do any maintenance on that process alone for planned issues.

 

[Squidrific]

This was the issue raised before. My counter argument is that as an owner booking at 11 months we would have our pick of whatever we want. So the family that is losing out on the 1br/studio didn't have home booking rights at 11 months. In other words, while I aim to be considerate, I can't worry at the 11 month window about how my decisions might affect somebody 4 months later.

Actually this is an absolutely incorrect statement. I am a BCV owner who has been on the waitlist for a 1BR at the exact time you are talking about for 8 months now and I still don't have it. So I am the exactly the person who was affected by your decision.

 

[mjc2003]

Actually this is an absolutely incorrect statement. I am a BCV owner who has been on the waitlist for a 1BR at the exact time you are talking about for 8 months now and I still don't have it. So I am the exactly the person who was affected by your decision.

The point of my statement is that I have the right to book whatever I need at the 11 month window.
I wasn't nefarious with my intentions, when I booked the lockoff it was for my brother and his wife. They subsequently found out they were having a baby and are due a week after the trip, so they couldn't go. I've spent months trying to fill it with other family, no luck. How were you "affected by my decision"? What decision? To book a room at the 11 month mark for my brother? To the contrary, by being able to cancel the room I opened up those dates for a wait list and furthered your chances. If I wasn't allowed to cancel then you or somebody else wouldn't have gotten a room that would have sat empty.

So by the tone of your post I guess you're suggesting that I should not have booked the lockoff at the 11 month window because there's a small percentage chance that my guests would cancel? I booked the lockoff because I needed it, not because I was trying to tie up a bunch of rooms in order to foil the plans of other members.

Can you please explain what decision I made that affected your plans?

 

[Dean]

The point of my statement is that I have the right to book whatever I need at the 11 month window.
I wasn't nefarious with my intentions, when I booked the lockoff it was for my brother and his wife. They subsequently found out they were having a baby and are due a week after the trip, so they couldn't go. I've spent months trying to fill it with other family, no luck. How were you "affected by my decision"? What decision? To book a room at the 11 month mark for my brother? To the contrary, by being able to cancel the room I opened up those dates for a wait list and furthered your chances. If I wasn't allowed to cancel then you or somebody else wouldn't have gotten a room that would have sat empty.

So by the tone of your post I guess you're suggesting that I should not have booked the lockoff at the 11 month window because there's a small percentage chance that my guests would cancel? I booked the lockoff because I needed it, not because I was trying to tie up a bunch of rooms in order to foil the plans of other members.

Can you please explain what decision I made that affected your plans?

My personal view is that all changes should be a cancelation and rebooking but as long as they're consistent, I have no major problem with any of the possible variations. The problem with this issue is they are not consistent and my info suggests this is not the way it's intended.

 

[Sandisw]

The point of my statement is that I have the right to book whatever I need at the 11 month window.
I wasn't nefarious with my intentions, when I booked the lockoff it was for my brother and his wife. They subsequently found out they were having a baby and are due a week after the trip, so they couldn't go. I've spent months trying to fill it with other family, no luck. How were you "affected by my decision"? What decision? To book a room at the 11 month mark for my brother? To the contrary, by being able to cancel the room I opened up those dates for a wait list and furthered your chances. If I wasn't allowed to cancel then you or somebody else wouldn't have gotten a room that would have sat empty.

So by the tone of your post I guess you're suggesting that I should not have booked the lockoff at the 11 month window because there's a small percentage chance that my guests would cancel? I booked the lockoff because I needed it, not because I was trying to tie up a bunch of rooms in order to foil the plans of other members.

Can you please explain what decision I made that affected your plans?

I think the point is that you didn't book a 1 bedroom but rather a two bedroom and when you no longer needed it, you were able to in effect change your reservation and jump ahead of those waiting on 1 bedrooms who didn't get it at 11 months.

I get in your case you would have kept it regardless and booked it because you thought you needed it, but if this becomes the norm, people could book these up way in advance knowing it will be easy to downsize months later , regardless if there is still availability, making studios and 1 bedrooms much harder to get from the start.

 

[mjc2003]

I think the point is that you didn't book a 1 bedroom but rather a two bedroom and when you no longer needed it, you were able to in effect change your reservation and jump ahead of those waiting on 1 bedrooms who didn't get it at 11 months.

I get in your case you would have kept it regardless and booked it because you thought you needed it, but if this becomes the norm, people could book these up way in advance knowing it will be easy to downsize months later , regardless if there is still availability, making studios and 1 bedrooms much harder to get from the start.

You are correct, I would've just kept the room and in that scenario nobody wins. Also, if I considered that might have to downsize I would just book a 1br and studio, it's only a small amount of points extra versus the lock off.
However, if people are going to book these rooms with the outside chance of canceling a part of the reservation later, and if member services is going to allow this, then that's a new reality that people need to work around. I'm not making these rules, I'm working within them.
As i said before, this argument gets very circular and my goal with this post was to inform people that this is now being allowed by member services. So people who are diametrically opposed to this because they think folks are out to cheat the system are going to have to accept that this is now part of the equation. I don't know what else to say. I brought this up once before and people seemed annoyed that i was allowed to make this change. I feel like I'm defending something for no particular reason, if it's allowed by member services then I shouldn't have to defend my actions.

 

[crisi]

You are correct, I would've just kept the room and in that scenario nobody wins. Also, if I considered that might have to downsize I would just book a 1br and studio, it's only a small amount of points extra versus the lock off.
However, if people are going to book these rooms with the outside chance of canceling a part of the reservation later, and if member services is going to allow this, then that's a new reality that people need to work around. I'm not making these rules, I'm working within them.
As i said before, this argument gets very circular and my goal with this post was to inform people that this is now being allowed by member services. So people who are diametrically opposed to this because they think folks are out to cheat the system are going to have to accept that this is now part of the equation. I don't know what else to say. I brought this up once before and people seemed annoyed that i was allowed to make this change. I feel like I'm defending something for no particular reason, if it's allowed by member services then I shouldn't have to defend my actions.

I suspect however, it isn't a rule - that it isn't that you ARE ENTITLED to split a lockoff - you MAY split a lockoff at the discretion of member services. You are going to have better luck with the request when the potion you want to let go has a waiting list for that time.

 

[Dean]

You are correct, I would've just kept the room and in that scenario nobody wins. Also, if I considered that might have to downsize I would just book a 1br and studio, it's only a small amount of points extra versus the lock off.

I agree that they set the rules (within legal & POS limits) and we need to work with them. I also would be the first to say that things change over time and we must adjust. However, for it to truly be a rule, it needs to be consistent and thus far, that has not seemed to be the case. It would seem you received a benefit that is not routinely available. However, I think we all realize that IF fault is deserved, it would be DVC and not you that should be blamed.

I would disagree on the idea that everyone loses if you couldn't split and simply decided to keep the 2 BR. Specifically the person who loses because of this allowance is the person who can't get the unit you take with those extra points. Taking a more general view, everyone else loses because that means extra points in play, reduced availability, less breakage inventory, higher maint fees, less cash rental inventory, higher occupancies (busier pool, etc) and so on. DVD also loses because it means potentially losing sales going forward. I'm not saying that's wrong, simply that there are real effects. I realize that each and every one of us has usage that negatively affects other owners. In a sense every timeshare that's not a fixed week/fixed unit option with no other variables, pits one owner against other owners.

 

[luckyman_apd]

I agree that they set the rules (within legal & POS limits) and we need to work with them. I also would be the first to say that things change over time and we must adjust. However, for it to truly be a rule, it needs to be consistent and thus far, that has not seemed to be the case. It would seem you received a benefit that is not routinely available. However, I think we all realize that IF fault is deserved, it would be DVC and not you that should be blamed.

I would disagree on the idea that everyone loses if you couldn't split and simply decided to keep the 2 BR. Specifically the person who loses because of this allowance is the person who can't get the unit you take with those extra points. Taking a more general view, everyone else loses because that means extra points in play, reduced availability, less breakage inventory, higher maint fees, less cash rental inventory, higher occupancies (busier pool, etc) and so on. DVD also loses because it means potentially losing sales going forward. I'm not saying that's wrong, simply that there are real effects. I realize that each and every one of us has usage that negatively affects other owners. In a sense every timeshare that's not a fixed week/fixed unit option with no other variables, pits one owner against other owners.

I disagree about anyone being negatively affected. Member A books 2br. Member B tries 1 br but no availability. Member A has booked the 1br already when classified as 2br. The 1 br was never available. Whether they use the room as a 2br or 1br, they have booked that room already....and member B didn't lose out on anything. If anything, another member benefits by a studio opening up that wasn't available before.

I get the cancel and rebook argument as this COULD be viewed as unfair to someone looking for a 2 br. But I don't see it that way. Is it a workaround if you want a 1 br and only 2br lock offs are available? It could be....but not without consequence as you have to have those extra points available....as I with a small contract do not.

 

[Dean]

I disagree about anyone being negatively affected. Member A books 2br. Member B tries 1 br but no availability. Member A has booked the 1br already when classified as 2br. The 1 br was never available. Whether they use the room as a 2br or 1br, they have booked that room already....and member B didn't lose out on anything. If anything, another member benefits by a studio opening up that wasn't available before.

I get the cancel and rebook argument as this COULD be viewed as unfair to someone looking for a 2 br. But I don't see it that way. Is it a workaround if you want a 1 br and only 2br lock offs are available? It could be....but not without consequence as you have to have those extra points available....as I with a small contract do not.

I think what you're missing is the potential for the future use of the points gotten back by the other person that will take future inventory out of the system. I realize that one could do the same by reserving both unit types (or all 3) but that to do so would require a larger investment and thus the system benefits from that side. My view is I'm OK with about any of the variations as long as they're published and consistent. The problem in this area, not just with this exact issue, is they are neither. When this was being discussed before there were members who posted they were not allowed to do this very thing.