Genie Service

I did read that you can add another Genie + after two hours, whether you've used the first or not. But...the concern I have with park hopping is whether anything would be available once I hop at 2 p.m. When we had the FP system and you searched for anything else, there was nothing left in the afternoon or evening that you needed it for.

I have not seen that a new one would be allowed after a few hours. The one difference with this option is that you are allowed to make them at different parks so I think you will be able to see what is there day of before even hopping.

But, I think for me and the people I travel with, one park will work better since we leave mid day for hours. This way, we get the rides we can before we decide to leave, go Back to the resort and finish up the rest at night.

We will also capitalize on using night hours and most likely, pay for ROTR and FOP for those that want them.
 
As I mentioned on another thread, I wasn't at all surprised about the G+ announcement... EXCEPT for the fact that some of the headliners are NOT included but available for yet ANOTHER additional fee! That detail was a real gut punch to me.

It would have been preferable for the G+ cost to be slightly more per day but include everything. Of course, that would presumably result in less profits for Disney than charging extra for the most in-demand rides.
Exactly this! So not sure whether I'll actually need the Genie +. Perhaps the Genie telling me what lines are the shortest wait will be helpful.
 
I have not seen that a new one would be allowed after a few hours. The one difference with this option is that you are allowed to make them at different parks so I think you will be able to see what is there day of before even hopping.

But, I think for me and the people I travel with, one park will work better since we leave mid day for hours. This way, we get the rides we can before we decide to leave, go Back to the resort and finish up the rest at night.

We will also capitalize on using night hours and most likely, pay for ROTR and FOP for those that want them.
Yeah, I was thinking this might be my strategy as well, except we always hop to a different park at night. I just like the option.
 
The problem I have with this is that it is not going to work for most people. Hear me out...

There's a comparison with UO's system, which allows anyone staying in a deluxe hotel to bypass the regular line. No pre-planning or reservation required, just show up, flash the card, and move right up to the head of the queue. If you're not staying at the deluxe hotel, it's VERY expensive to add this feature to your ticket. So, the vast majority of people at UO won't have it. I've used it, and cut my wait time on the "B List" rides by 30-60 minutes per ride. The Harry Potter rides didn't offer the "bypass the lines" feature when I was there, so I spent over an hour waiting in each of those lines.

G+ allows you to pay $15, so it's inexpensive, and allows you to make reservation after reservation but only for "B" list (C-D ticket) rides, and only one at a time. You might want to get out of the park by the early afternoon to avoid the sweltering Florida heat, but no... You make that POTC reservation at 7am for 5 minutes after 9am rope drop, show up at rope drop, rush to POTC, get on and ride it. Your next target ride is HM, Splash, or BTMR. You check G+... HM is offering a pass for 10:15, Splash is offered at 11:45, BTMR is offered at 1. Exiting HM at 10:40, you check G+ and it tells you that your next ride is at 3pm on either Splash or BTMR. You then check LL for 7DMT and get a 4pm time there, and it's $20 for that ride alone. You're stuck in the park waiting for your next ride 4 hours from now, so you have lunch, and get into a standby line for whatever you didn't pick as your next ride, waiting 50 minutes in standby, and then the next ride on your list, again on standby, waiting 70 minutes for that. You ride your scheduled ride, and then check G+, and find nothing left that day. Frustrated, the next day you decide to not buy G+. That day you wait 120 minutes for Splash and 90 minutes for BTMR because that day EVERYONE and their brother seems to have purchased G+.

G+ only works when few people buy it at a high price, or everyone buys it. If few buy it at a high price, it's UO's system that allows those who can afford it to not spend time waiting. If everyone buys it, it means that a regular admission ticket on an average day means you'll be spending the vast majority of the day standing in lines to get on a small number of rides, while those on G+ will have shorter waits in the fast line. I doubt Disney will publish how many people purchased G+ that day, or how many of them are in each park, although that could easily be done.

LL is the other wrinkle here. Disney has stated that top tier (A List, or "E Ticket") rides are pay per ride, or standby only. I can see people buying $30 FoP LL's to avoid the 2 hour standby line. Depending upon how many LL's are offered for the ride, this could cause a huge problem. We see it today with Fastpass. If you have a Fastpass, you might wait 30 minutes to get onto FoP when the standby line says 150 minutes. If Disney maximizes revenue by offering the vast majority of spots on FoP as LL's, the standby times will be "get in line at 9am and we might get you on the ride by the afternoon".

So, I don't see this scheme working for anyone but Disney, who has just found a new way to add at least $15-35 to every daily ticket.
 
Lots of assumptions everywhere re how Genie+ and LL will work. They all sound 'reasonable' to me as I read them, even though they may conflict with each other, LOL. I will be waiting for the reviews and hope there will be actually be some before our next trip.

I lean negatively on this right now, but I reserve the right to change my mind, LOL. I know I don't like changes to things I am already familiar with - Windows operating system "upgrades" come to mind, here.
 
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I'm not surprised at all about Genie+, they'd be blind not to see the niche that Touring Plans created, and MaxPass has a dedicated fan base. Lightning Pass, on the other hand.... ugh. Big miss for us.

I was shocked Disney passed up the chance to give on site guests another reason to stay, especially since there's been such a lukewarm reception to the extra hours. If they'd given on site guests a free FP to an E ticket ride (2 if you stay Deluxe) with the purchase of Genie+, I'd be all in, and consider it worth it to get an improved experience.

We were ready to go for a direct add on at SSR, but have cooled. I want to see how this plays out for at least another year.
 
G+ only works when few people buy it at a high price, or everyone buys it.
This is pretty spot-on. The idea of turning a free service into a paid service is a kick in the crotch, but just how hard it kicks really depends on adoption.

If only a small % of guests purchase G+, then those who do get a lot of value at relatively little expense (in terms of longer standby wait times) to those who don't.

If 70%+ guests purchase G+, then they get little or no benefit compared to the old FP+ system -- in fact without the T1 attractions I'd say it's a big step backwards -- while those who don't pay really suffer compared to the old regime.

There's probably a tipping point at which G+ is so widely adopted that you have to buy it to have a halfway-decent experience, but it would still be less valuable than the previously-free service.
 
This is my number one concern if they include G+ with AP’s. That’s the gotcha moment.
I think it's much more likely that they give away G+ w/ on-site (or even just deluxe) stays. Perhaps not even for length-of-stay: "Stay 4 nights or more and get 2 days of Genie+ for free" would make sense as an attempt to get people hooked.

But, I'd be shocked if they included it with an AP, and a bit surprised even if they allowed APs to purchase it for < $300/year add-on. They want APs to open their wallets every time they come to the park, or to get out of the way so they can attract "a more favorable guest mix".

I'd be very curious as to what Disney's internal targets for adoption are here.

Do they want to get to 100% and literally just grab more money from guests w/o adding value?

Or do they want < 50% adoption so that it's still a value-add to guests?
 
For me, learning yet another process for access to rides is not all that ppealing, neither is following endless threads and reports related to how to optimize the new system and its new idiosyncrasies. I would rather read about the new live entertainment offerings. . . Wait, scratch that.
 
If there is a wide adoption it's going to be a nightmare for everyone.
Standby lines are going to be a nightmare for people without Jafar. Pre pandemic 80% of capacity went to FP+, causing standby lines to move very slowly, but at least everyone had 3 and the chance to refresh and get more, now people without Jafar can only suffer.

Buy even people who purchase Jafar won't be happy. Because if adoption will be wide the good attractions will go quickly. Imagine someone buying Jafar at 11 after experiencing long lines everywhere and find out the only option is Philarmagic at 7pm? And then discover FoP is not even included. Poor CM who will have to handle guests tantrums.
 
I heard the word "Spontaneous" several times in the video, so this must have been a common complaint that WDW heard about the FastPass system. But I don't think this new system is anymore "Spontaneous" than FastPass, since you have to sit on your phone at 7am and have to look at it all day. If they really wanted "Spontaneous" then they should just scrap the whole system and just do regular ride lines with no advantage for any guest.
 
I heard the word "Spontaneous" several times in the video, so this must have been a common complaint that WDW heard about the FastPass system. But I don't think this new system is anymore "Spontaneous" than FastPass, since you have to sit on your phone at 7am and have to look at it all day. If they really wanted "Spontaneous" then they should just scrap the whole system and just do regular ride lines with no advantage for any guest.
Shifting from book-in-advance, 3-at-a-time passes to day-of, 1-at-a-time passes improves availability and spontaneity, especially for first-time visitors.

Charging extra for it is a value shift from non-Genie+ to Genie+ guests, or else a pure cash grab, depending on adoption.
 
If spontaneity and long lines were the real issues, Disney could have taken away multiple, pre-booked FPs without charging us extra for it. Like others said, this would add at least $500 for our next trip if we get G+ every day. I don't see paying even more for the top tier rides, which means we'll need to save those for the extra evening hours (in two parks at least) or do the rope drop stampede. On the potential pluses, maybe it will make standby lines move faster. Maybe we won't need it for every day of our trip or every park.
 
We have 2 trips planned for 2022. These are rescheduled covid canceled trips. Not only did the cost of our purchased hoppers go up an additional $122.97 each,( $1598.61) And we no longer have Magical Express or luggage service. Add another $401 for Mears connect. Now they want us to pay $15 a day for each of us, there are 13 people going. That's another $195 a day. Add another $2535. So for the same trip it is costing us an additional $4,523.61 for a lesser experience.
 
As has been pointed out many times already, WDW's primary demographic as a destination resort is NOT repeat customers despite what DVC would have you believe. Do not confuse the two very different models.

Whether that's true or not is debatable, and has already been addressed by others. But even if Disney doesn't care all that much about repeat customers, do they want the diehard fans souring on the experience such that they not only visit less often, but that they also stop recommending Disney to others? I've personally talked most of my extended family into visiting WDW in the past, visits which certainly would not have happened if they hadn't asked me about my trips first. I've even hosted a several families at our DVC. A few have actually become regular visitors as a result, opting to go on their own. What with all these changes, mostly downgrades, in the experience, I'm not sure I'll be as enthusiastic a fan in the future. My extended family was planning a large family trip in 2020 which was postponed twice due to COVID, and up until this most recent announcement, we were still planning to go in 2022. We're currently reconsidering those plans now.
 
Whether that's true or not is debatable, and has already been addressed by others. But even if Disney doesn't care all that much about repeat customers, do they want the diehard fans souring on the experience such that they not only visit less often, but that they also stop recommending Disney to others? I've personally talked most of my extended family into visiting WDW in the past, visits which certainly would not have happened if they hadn't asked me about my trips first. I've even hosted a several families at our DVC. A few have actually become regular visitors as a result, opting to go on their own. What with all these changes, mostly downgrades, in the experience, I'm not sure I'll be as enthusiastic a fan in the future. My extended family was planning a large family trip in 2020 which was postponed twice due to COVID, and up until this most recent announcement, we were still planning to go in 2022. We're currently reconsidering those plans now.


Just to agree with you, I've already told one friend that I don't recommend Disney right now (she was going to take her family on their first Disney vacation in April 2020 and I was giving her tips before that). It turns out, Genie+ was my breaking point for recommending Disney to others. On the other hand, new visitors aren't going to know what the experience used to be like if you understood how to get the most out of fastpass vs paying for and using Genie+.
 
Yes, I've read this many times on forums and such. Do we have any actual evidence that WDW doesn't need, seek out, or value repeat customers? Just wondering on what is this hypothesis based? I mean, just cuz it's being said on the internet, doesn't make it fact.
It's been my experience that WDW does seek me out and makes efforts to get my family to return. They have done this in the form of "bounce back offers", postal mailings and emails with non-transferable room/package promos.
I'm not questioning you, I just want to know where this idea comes from, as it seems to be counterintuitive.
Recently in Forbes: "When it comes to creating an amazing customer experience, all companies can learn from the Happiest Place on Earth. With its magical and personalized approach to customer experience, Disney and its theme parks have created a passionately loyal fan base, welcoming 157 million visitors in 2018 with an amazing 70% return rate of first-time guests.
Disney is regularly recognized for its magical approach to customer experience. Here are five lessons every company can learn from Mickey Mouse himself."
Ironically, this article goes on to explain how WDW has attained this amazing return rate by providing a wonderful guest experience..... the very thing MANY loyal fans have been saying is being eroded of late.

For clarity, I am not saying WDW does not WANT repeat customers. It's the opposite in fact - they want to build customers who have a brand loyalty. It is in fact one of their key mantras and as a company, they are known for developing a following (of which we all here are a part of).

There is a difference between wanting and enjoying repeat customers though and understanding your key demographic. WDW is a destination resort. As such, people travel from all over the world to visit it. Disney does not release exact numbers to us, but from all accounts internal and external, about 70% of the visitors are WDW are there on a first time only or generational visit (for convinces say they have visited WDW less then 5 times in their lifetime). MOST visit once or twice in their lifetime.

Again, this is very different from DLP, DLC, and other Disney Parks. WDW is a very special animal since it's actually a destination in and of itself.

Disney DOES want repeat customers. Otherwise they would obviously not care about how they treat new comers. The point however is that when it comes to a choice between locals and DVC members who frequent the parks all the time and winning over someone who has only visited once or twice, they will target the newer customers to make then repeat customers. In other words, they want the 70% of new people to have a better experience and will sacrifice the experience of the 30% locals, DVC, etc. Why? A number of reasons.

* Most of that 30% come all the time. They do not spend a ton of money. DVC visitors in fact are quite adept at finding ways to save money by buying groceries and not eating on property. In contrast, that 70% are usually eating on the park and enjoying new experiences. They are also more likely to purchase toys for kids, shirts, gifts, etc.
* Although we in the 30% complain a lot, in actuality, a very small percentage (I have no idea how many) ACTUALLY LEAVE. MOST of us will not abandon Disney or stop or majorly change our plans over $15. So Disney gets the win of the 70% and loses very few of the 30%.

Point being.... as mentioned, when making a choice, Disney will lean toward pleasing the 70% over us, AS WELL THEY SHOULD. Any SMART business would do the same.

Contrast this to a local restaurant (which is the context I mentioned it in) who's demographic is generally a 10-15 mile radius of people who like their food. They depend on 90% repeat customers. The loss of a single customer who decides not to come back for 10 years is a major hit. Them telling their friends in the area is another major hit. Just a little bad will can destroy them.
 

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