AAAAAAArrrrrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhh! ...more flight problems

[kaytieeldr]

No just a person who doesn't just "accept" that because they do these things, that it's ok. You are free to be tossed around on your flights and be ok with it. I never will be. No worries at all.

You're probably not aware the the poster you quoted will likely fly more commercial flights/miles this year than you or I will in our lives. Nobody is being tossed around. If you feel that's how the airline is treating you, perhaps the suggestion that you would be happier driving should be considered.

Again, please read your airline's Contract of Carriage https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/legal/contract-of-carriage-dgr.html

 

[Momoftwins+1]

I could care less the flying habits of said poster...I don't have to agree with horrible customer service treatment and that being said, you all don't have to agree with me. That's what makes the world go around.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I don't see where you got horrible customer service. Operations including schedule changes is ǹot customer service. When you called, was the agent rude? I thought they changed your flight to a possible one? No?

One more time, have you read the Delta Contract of Carriage? Did you read this thread? The OP had this same impossible connection issue, and easily got it resolved. Without condescension.

 

[writerguyfl]

If there's an available itinerary (which there must be for a human Delta agent OR the passenger to find), why can't the computer find it? An airline want to change the flight schedule? OK, fine. That's the price we pay for booking so far out. But why not send an automatic notification to passengers saying the flight has been changed, and give them the option of changing their flights themselves. They should be able to do so on the app, online, or calling in. That would be less work for Delta to do.

As great as they are, computers can't account for every single situation. Software sometimes has restrictions that still need humans to override. In the olden days, this entire process was done without auto-rebooking. Everyone had to talk to a Delta representative (or their travel agent). What Delta has today is more efficient and only a small number of passengers find themselves with broken itineraries.

-----
Technical Explanation (aka More Information than most Travelers Need): As I understand it, Delta's VIPER software is designed to be revenue neutral. Every ticket belongs to a fare class designated by a letter. For example, a discounted economy ticket might be fare class S. The actual fare (e.g. $150 or $250) can vary within a fare class. When VIPER runs, I believe it is only allowed to rebook passengers within the same fare class. If nothing is available, it assigns an "impossible" itinerary and the ticket gets placed into the queue for a human being to fix. Keep in mind that on a multi-leg ticket, the same fare class would need to be available for all flight segments.

Please note that this restriction is eliminated during periods of irregular operations (IROPS). If a flight gets canceled on the day of travel or due to a waiver, pretty much any available seat (in the same cabin class) is available. In the event of a same-day cancelation, the easiest way to rebook yourself is via the website. What you see online should be the same as what a Delta representative can see. That's materially different from an itinerary change that happens days/weeks/months in advance.

 

[sam_gordon]

As great as they are, computers can't account for every single situation. Software sometimes has restrictions that still need humans to override. In the olden days, this entire process was done without auto-rebooking. Everyone had to talk to a Delta representative (or their travel agent). What Delta has today is more efficient and only a small number of passengers find themselves with broken itineraries.

-----
Technical Explanation (aka More Information than most Travelers Need): As I understand it, Delta's VIPER software is designed to be revenue neutral. Every ticket belongs to a fare class designated by a letter. For example, a discounted economy ticket might be fare class S. The actual fare (e.g. $150 or $250) can vary within a fare class. When VIPER runs, I believe it is only allowed to rebook passengers within the same fare class. If nothing is available, it assigns an "impossible" itinerary and the ticket gets placed into the queue for a human being to fix. Keep in mind that on a multi-leg ticket, the same fare class would need to be available for all flight segments.

Please note that this restriction is eliminated during periods of irregular operations (IROPS). If a flight gets canceled on the day of travel or due to a waiver, pretty much any available seat (in the same cabin class) is available. In the event of a same-day cancelation, the easiest way to rebook yourself is via the website. What you see online should be the same as what a Delta representative can see. That's materially different from an itinerary change that happens days/weeks/months in advance.

Still doesn't explain why the airline can't send out change notices. As a passenger, I'd rather have a say in what changes get made for me. Now granted, not everyone feels the same way. But if the change has been enough to allow a fee free change (I think Delta's policy is they waive the fee if they've changed arrival or departure time by more than an hour), notify the passenger. "A change has been made to your itinerary. Because of this, the change fee is waived, and you can select any flight that will work with your schedule (travel date, arriving and departing airports, and cabin choice must stay the same)." Then a savvy passenger finds the flight they want, rebooks it, and it's done. Then it can come out of the human queue.

 

[writerguyfl]

They do notify everyone. It just takes time. Even today, sending out tens or hundreds of thousands of emails isn't an instantaneous process. When airlines tinker with schedules weeks or months in advance, it usually happens on a Saturday. Then, the will begin notifying passengers.

Additionally, as someone who used to work in a travel industry call center, I'd say it's smart to stretch out the notification process. If you notify everyone at once, you end up overloading the call center. Spreading it out over multiple days is wise. And, the way flights get booked (even in destinations with lots of leisure travelers who book early), it's extremely likely that there will be no difference in availability on all alternative flights. Effectively, notifying a passenger of a problem with their flight several months in advance the second it's changed or waiting several days will result in the exact same options for the passenger.

Caveat: If you make a reservation with a travel agency (real or online like Orbitz/Expedia), the airline notifies the agency of a flight change. It is the responsibility of the agency to contact the passenger.

 

[sam_gordon]

They do notify everyone. It just takes time. Even today, sending out tens or hundreds of thousands of emails isn't an instantaneous process. When airlines tinker with schedules weeks or months in advance, it usually happens on a Saturday. Then, the will begin notifying passengers.

Additionally, as someone who used to work in a travel industry call center, I'd say it's smart to stretch out the notification process. If you notify everyone at once, you end up overloading the call center. Spreading it out over multiple days is wise. And, the way flights get booked (even in destinations with lots of leisure travelers who book early), it's extremely likely that there will be no difference in availability on all alternative flights. Effectively, notifying a passenger of a problem with their flight several months in advance the second it's changed or waiting several days will result in the exact same options for the passenger.

One, you don't need to notify everyone immediately, just those who are affected enough by the change that their change fee would be waived. Second, I'm not convinced the notifications are happening within days.

Caveat: If you make a reservation with a travel agency (real or online like Orbitz/Expedia), the airline notifies the agency of a flight change. It is the responsibility of the agency to contact the passenger.

So they CAN put out an automatic email. I think your caveat makes it worse.

 

[kaytieeldr]

One, you don't need to notify everyone immediately, just those who are affected enough by the change that their change fee would be waived. Second, I'm not convinced the notifications are happening within days.

How do easy or difficult would it be for each airline to program it's notification system to identify customers by fare class? Aside from that, howbad a hit do you think an airline will take by alienating its high-paying customers?

So they CAN put out an automatic email. I think your caveat makes it worse.

Well, yeah. They do. They just don't necessarily do it as instantaneously as some passengers think they should.

Notifying 100 TAs and OTAs is faster than notifying 100,000 passengers. Any airliner WILL inform passengers of schedule changes, just, again, not necessarily at the instant the change was made.

 

[sam_gordon]

How do easy or difficult would it be for each airline to program it's notification system to identify customers by fare class? Aside from that, howbad a hit do you think an airline will take by alienating its high-paying customers?

Where did I bring up fare class? Delta's policy is if the change is more than an hour, the fee is waived. So if the computer makes a change more than an hour, notify the customer, irregardless of fare class. Seems pretty simple.

Well, yeah. They do. They just don't necessarily do it as instantaneously as some passengers think they should.

Notifying 100 TAs and OTAs is faster than notifying 100,000 passengers. Any airliner WILL inform passengers of schedule changes, just, again, not necessarily at the instant the change was made.

So when do they notify? A week after the change? A month? A month before the flight? The day before the flight?

 

[kaytieeldr]

Where did I bring up fare class?

Higher fare classes don't necessarily have change fees.

So when do they notify? A week after the change? A month? A month before the flight? The day before the flight?

Reasonable length of time. Sure as heck not as instantaneously as some passengers expect. My experience has generally been within a week of the change.

Airline Contracts of Carriage/Passengers Bills of Rights only indicate within a day of, or the day of, the flight.

Passengers just need to be a little patient. Maybe not check and recheck flight information mutation every four hours.

 

[sam_gordon]

Higher fare classes don't necessarily have change fees.

So? The programming should still be the same... itinerary change of more than an hour? Notify the passenger.

Reasonable length of time. Sure as heck not as instantaneously as some passengers expect. My experience has generally been within a week of the change.

Airline Contracts of Carriage/Passengers Bills of Rights only indicate within a day of, or the day of, the flight.

Passengers just need to be a little patient. Maybe not check and recheck flight information mutation every four hours.

I think I've been notified one time of a major change. I personally don't check daily or even weekly until we get close. So I have no idea if I logged in one minute after the change or two months.

 

[writerguyfl]

This conversation seems to be going in circles. I've made the point (several times) that passengers affected by schedule changes will absolutely get notified. This belief is based on personal experience working at a full-service travel agency and roughly 25 years working in and following the hospitality industry. No one has to accept what I say...but I'm not going to waste my time re-repeating myself.

If anyone has specific questions, feel free to send me a message. I won't be returning to this thread to read any further posts.

 

[a1tinkfans]

Frontier: this situation is to be expected with an ultra low cost airline.
jetBlue: departure delay (different from ultimate diversion) under three hours isn't even addressed in neiGhbour's Customer Hill of Rights https://www.jetblue.com/flying-on-jetblue/customer-protection/ but airfarewatchdog does https://www.airfarewatchdog.com/pages/18939297/ and the compensation for a 1.5-2 hour departure delay is, yes, $25 credit.

Flight diversions and destination arrivals aren't even addressed.

I spoke with the airline. The $25 was an immediate courtesy/goodwill offering and not the response to their controllable ( mechanical) delay. That part is under review ( told 5-7 business days and then it will post to the True Blue acct, to determine the compensation, and that is in their Bill of Rights. They also compensated $15, for broken tv ( which happened on Both departure and arrival flights) ..

The return flight was also delayed... I believe just under 30 minutes.
I’ll update when compensation is recv’d for that long delay/diversion.

Regarding Frontier, don’t know why they would wait until almost boarding time to alert customers of the cancellation, when others all cancelled.. poor business practice imho, but I can only imagine Not being there based on an assumption of cancellation and then not having an opportunity to rebook for free.
Everyone ultimately traveled safely, for that, I’m grateful.
As an aside... my ds was again yanked (off TSA pre cq ) line, this time scanned, searched, dusted. ..
they re Checking... clearly not the right person, lol.. but checking none the less... it’s become a family joke
Better safe than sorry

 

[kaytieeldr]

The return flight was also delayed... I believe just under 30 minutes.
I’ll update when compensation is recv’d for that long delay/diversion.

Zero compensation indicated for 30 minute delay. Passengers Bill of Rights starts at 1.5 hours.

Regarding Frontier, don’t know why they would wait until almost boarding time to alert customers of the cancellation, when others all cancelled.. poor business practice imho,

They were hoping to get the flight out. They notified the passengers of the cancellation as soon as it happened. Impossible to inform passengers of a cancellation that has not yet occurred. That plane needed to be at your person's destination to transport departing passengers to their destination. No airline wants to disrupt business.

Because you feel this is poor business practice, you need to prohibit all your family members from flying airlines of whose business practices you disapprove.

 

[sam_gordon]

This conversation seems to be going in circles. I've made the point (several times) that passengers affected by schedule changes will absolutely get notified. This belief is based on personal experience working at a full-service travel agency and roughly 25 years working in and following the hospitality industry. No one has to accept what I say...but I'm not going to waste my time re-repeating myself.

If anyone has specific questions, feel free to send me a message. I won't be returning to this thread to read any further posts.

I have no doubt you are stating what you know as fact. I'm stating my OPINION that I don't feel the airlines handle change notifications in a good way.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Where did I bring up fare class? Delta's policy is if the change is more than an hour, the fee is waived. So if the computer makes a change more than an hour, notify the customer, irregardless of fare class. Seems pretty simple.

Original statement specified passengers subject to change fee.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I have no doubt you are stating what you know as fact. I'm stating my OPINION that I don't feel the airlines handle change notifications in a good way.

Address your opinion to the airline. Disputing writerguyfl's information won't change the facts.

 

[sam_gordon]

Original statement specified passengers subject to change fee.

OK. Fine. I didn't think about the fare class. I still think it's easy programming... flight change by an hour? Notify the customer.

Address your opinion to the airline. Disputing writerguyfl's information won't change the facts.

If you'd like to take that stance, I hope you tell everyone who posts a complaint about Disney to address the complaint to them. I did not dispute his information. I've said what has happened to me and how I think the airlines should handle things. Heaven forbid I think a company can do something better (granted, in my opinion) and state that.