DAS changes starting June 18

[Pluto468]

Have you ever noticed how many board a plane early with mobility issues but seem to have no problem getting off with everyone else

Airlines allow people to board early because they don't want someone with a mobility issue to feel rushed when they're boarding the plane. Some people need more time to get to their seat and get settled. Often they get off the plane with everyone else, or sometimes they wait until everyone else is already off.

 

[VandVsmama]

Calling a friend of mine this evening about this very topic. We have plans w/her & her DH at the beginning of June to go to Disneyland for a day w/my YDD for YDD's b-day. We've gone to DL w/Friend & her DH many times. He's blind AND has a physical disability from a old ankle injury. Most of the time with rides, it's because of the ankle injury that he's needed the DAS. Because although he can walk just fine, standing for more than 15-20 min is pure torture. He also can't really do stairs, so on rides like BTMRR, being able to enter through the exit and walk on a ramp instead has been really helpful.

On other rides like POTC, Space Mtn, etc., he uses the wheelchair entrance to get on the ride because due to the fact that he can't see, he needs more time to get IN the ride vehicle (and Friend helps him w/this).

What's ironic is in the past, Friend has asked at Guest Services if her DH could bring in one of those chair-cane thingies, but was always told no way. However, I see based on the info that somebody posted from the Disney site back on pg. 3 of this thread, using a chair-cane thingy is now ok. So now all we have to do is convince Friend's DH to get over his pride and actually be willing to bring one of those. Otherwise, without it, he basically won't be able to do much at a Disney park.

 

[tink89]

You bring up a good point, Lisa. I think DAS is sometimes discussed as though it's a line-cutting measure (and I've had that in my head, too), but a group with a DAS pass ends up waiting for a ride the same length of time as people in the standby line, right? It's just that they can go and sit somewhere quieter while waiting their turn. It may look to people in the standby line as though DAS holders are cutting in, but they really aren't.

And they can go get on other rides while everyone else has to wait in that line. I know many ppl who abuse the system and request DAS and say it helps them get through the park because they don’t want to walk or it’s too hot or don’t want to wait in line. So they get a return time for DAS and go get on other rides or use genie to get in other stuff. So for something that is supposed to be equal or reasonable accommodation many people are abusing it

 

[brentm77]

Reasonable, as you are using it, is defined by law. To date, despite all of the past changes to the program, Disney's actions have proven reasonable.

Perhaps you think this is the time their lawyers have lost their minds. Fair enough. I wouldn't bet on it though.

Nothing in any of what has been released appears to take away reasonable access as defined by the ADA. Further, those who "really need it", again, as defined by the ADA, will still have access. Even further, it will most definitely cut down on the cheating.

Yes, of course reasonable is defined by law. Yes, Disney's actions have held up in court so far, but that says nothing whatsoever about its new plans. They must stand on their own.

No, I don't think the lawyers have lost their minds. Most lawyers that work in this area are are well versed on the law, and Disney is sure to have good ones. But A) lawyers are not infallible and may not be experienced in using the park with certain disabilities, meaning the may have blind spots; B) company's don't always follow legal advice; and C) sometimes companies weigh the risks and benefits and try to push the boundaries of what is legal. If you think every company always follows every law perfectly just because they have lawyers, I have news for you!

Of course people can disagree on what is reasonable, otherwise there wouldn't be thousands of lawsuits addressing that specific question under the ADA. However, this thread is full of people who are explaining why the details of what has been released would not provide them reasonable access. If you don't believe them, that's your prerogative, but I choose to believe they know their disabilities better than you.

If Disney really is listening to its lawyers, it won't be as stringent as its new guidelines suggest. It won't draw a hard line based on diagnosis, but look at each individual case and provide an appropriate accommodation, since that is what the law requires. If Disney does that, it will be just fine. But if they don't, litigation is sure to follow, and it may not win this one.

 

[DLandgirlie]

Everyone is making a lot of assumptions about what "Return to Queue" is and what some of you are describing is... DAS. Essentially. So, I highly doubt it's going to be that or they would just call it DAS. (Yes, some rides have this feature because you can't fit wheelchairs/ECV in the queue and that will still be a thing even in the new system. I'm talking about people who are otherwise mobile but have other medical issues.) However, this is also the same process that DAS users go through except they get their return times on their phones instead of going to a CM. Then you either return through a lightning lane on rides that have them, or you go to the exit on rides that don't have lightning lanes. Maybe I'm wrong, but I sincerely doubt that they're going to give non-DAS users the same or similar system as DAS users. Because then anyone can go to the ride exit and be like, "I have IBS! Give me a return time!" and now they're back in the same mess they were to begin with where people are lying and abusing it.

What I think a lot of people are worried will happen for people now disqualified from DAS is you have to go in regular standby and then if you have a medical issue and need to get out of the line suddenly, now you have to weave your way through God knows how many people to get out of that line. Then come back and see a Cast Member so you can either meet your party again or I guess get put back in line if you're alone. (Believe me, there is nothing my mother will hate more than having to ask 75 people in line behind her to get out of her way so she can get out of a line in an urgent situation.)

The truth is, no one knows exactly how it is going to work yet, but it has a LOT of people worried about how they will navigate future park trips or even if they will be able to do so.

I personally am not describing DAS. My family member is not eligible for the current DAS, which to my understanding allows for accommodations for all of the rides at DCA/DL, I know for sure it's not DAS because we were told we don't qualify for it. I described the system we use now. Whether it's actually called 'return to line' or 'return to Queue' not sure. It allows our group to return to the Exit upon a selected time, and we did use the phone for a return time for pirates. This was only for older attractions that do not accommodate a Walker.

For rides like Mickey's Railroad, and RSR we use the queue and go to the disabled line to avoid stairs.
For Haunted Mansion and Ariel, Peter Pan; we request disabled access where the track slows down for smoother safer loading.

However, yes, we don't know what the revised plan will be going forward for DAS as a whole.

The new system will have people abusing it as well, hopefully not as much, but there's always a work around and people are feeling more justified to abuse DAS due to their current Genie + vs. standard line situation.

They need to fix Genie+.

 

[Wojodis]

Just speculating here--but I think all these changes are truly just trying to achieve 1 sole desired result and that is to shorten LLs and wait times. Growing wait times are not fair to anyone--those on a DAS, those with Genie+, those who pay outright for LL access, and those waiting standby--Every guest benefits from shorter lines. I personally believe that we will actually see very little change in terms of who qualifies--if you've qualified for a DAS for the past 5 years, I highly doubt that you will be denied assistance. I do think that we will see drastic differences in how the resultant accommodations apply though. Just as Disney states on the website, I do think the "DAS Pass" will be used primarily for young families with children with developmental disabilities--I believe they will attempt to limit the number of guests to 4 however I think frequent changes/allowances will be made depending on the situation. (ex: Grammy may accompany mom and dad in line to keep an eye on 1 or 2 neurotypical children as the parents see to their other child). I think other guests who qualify, mainly adults who can not manage the cue but whose limitations are not due to a developmental or cognitive issue, will still be granted "access", however they may be asked to utilize other tools to address their issues with waiting in line. For small groups of 2 or 3, things will most likely continue in the same manner as before. But for groups of 5 or greater, alternative solutions will be utilized. Disney specifically mentions Rider Switch and Single Rider on the website. I think Disney will slightly modify or revamp these areas to allow for the accommodation. Remember, with the ultimate goal being to minimize LL length and wait times--Rider Switch can easily be modified to allow for half the party to wait in line, while the guest with the accommodation waits with other members of their group in a more appropriate location (wherever that may be)--there will be no more "parties of 10" being granted access. I know it's not optimal to separate families/groups but the goal is to provide a solution for the difficulty waiting in the cue, not to keep all members together. This is also the reason why the traditional "DAS Pass" will be reserved for children with developmental disabilities and their families--Disney is not going to separate young children from their siblings and they will not ask for 1 adult to provide all the care, attention, coaxing, soothing, supervision, etc. that may be required when multiple adults could provide care by keeping the party together. The changes would significantly cut LL length and wait times, thus; allowing for an improved experience FOR ALL THEME PARK GUESTS. There will be exceptions of course (ex: 1 adult tending to 5 or 6 children)--but these situations will be few and far between, thus; easily managed by CMs). I'm not saying that I agree with the possible changes I've outlined--but I do believe that as adults, we must recognize that changes are necessary and imminent and that it's on all of us individually to assess these changes, and to decide if this is still the place where we want to spend our time, money, and energy.

 

[irlandaise]

I saw this OC Register article online this morning.

Disneyland threatens lifetime ban for disability cheats

Ah, I hadn't noticed that in the FAQ. Here's what it says:

What happens if any of the statements made by a Guest in the process of registering for DAS are found to be not true?
If it is determined that any of the statements a Guest made in the process of obtaining DAS are not true, the Guest will be permanently barred from entering the Walt Disney World Resort and the Disneyland Resort, and any previously purchased Annual Passes, Magic Key passes, tickets and other park products and services will be forfeited and not refunded.

 

[Pluto468]

Ah, I hadn't noticed that in the FAQ. Here's what it says:

What happens if any of the statements made by a Guest in the process of registering for DAS are found to be not true?
If it is determined that any of the statements a Guest made in the process of obtaining DAS are not true, the Guest will be permanently barred from entering the Walt Disney World Resort and the Disneyland Resort, and any previously purchased Annual Passes, Magic Key passes, tickets and other park products and services will be forfeited and not refunded.

I imagine this will stop many people from trying to get DAS if they don't actually need it.

 

[smartlabelprint]

Everyone is making a lot of assumptions about what "Return to Queue" is and what some of you are describing is... DAS. Essentially. So, I highly doubt it's going to be that or they would just call it DAS. (Yes, some rides have this feature because you can't fit wheelchairs/ECV in the queue and that will still be a thing even in the new system. I'm talking about people who are otherwise mobile but have other medical issues.) However, this is also the same process that DAS users go through except they get their return times on their phones instead of going to a CM. Then you either return through a lightning lane on rides that have them, or you go to the exit on rides that don't have lightning lanes. Maybe I'm wrong, but I sincerely doubt that they're going to give non-DAS users the same or similar system as DAS users. Because then anyone can go to the ride exit and be like, "I have IBS! Give me a return time!" and now they're back in the same mess they were to begin with where people are lying and abusing it.

What I think a lot of people are worried will happen for people now disqualified from DAS is you have to go in regular standby and then if you have a medical issue and need to get out of the line suddenly, now you have to weave your way through God knows how many people to get out of that line. Then come back and see a Cast Member so you can either meet your party again or I guess get put back in line if you're alone. (Believe me, there is nothing my mother will hate more than having to ask 75 people in line behind her to get out of her way so she can get out of a line in an urgent situation.)

The truth is, no one knows exactly how it is going to work yet, but it has a LOT of people worried about how they will navigate future park trips or even if they will be able to do so.

My kids have developmental disabilities, including autism. This would be a nightmare for us. It was a nightmare under the old DAS, going to get a return time, then coming back to rides. Same with rider switch if that’s what they implement instead for your mom’s situation, which I have also heard rumors about. We couldn’t use rider switch. Our kids have too high of needs. If we’d have been able to come back and use it at any time, like they used to allow as a paper pass a long time ago it was ok, but often they couldn’t come back within that hour once it was on the phone. That’s what they’re not accommodating for other disabilities, I think these return times they give will have a set time instead of DAS, which is come as you can.

 

[smartlabelprint]

Some people board early due to developmental disabilities as well. Does that bother you too?

Including us and I feel bad about it for a minute. If they only understood how many people I avoid hitting in the head with our car seat by boarding early. With no luggage!

And my DD kids are ready to run off that plan the moment we start our descent.

 

[smartlabelprint]

And they can go get on other rides while everyone else has to wait in that line. I know many ppl who abuse the system and request DAS and say it helps them get through the park because they don’t want to walk or it’s too hot or don’t want to wait in line. So they get a return time for DAS and go get on other rides or use genie to get in other stuff. So for something that is supposed to be equal or reasonable accommodation many people are abusing it

I mentiones this in a Disney disability group and nearly set off an uproar. My kids can do max 6 things in a day in small increments with hotel breaks. These people claim their adhd kids need to be on a ride constantly so they get das and genie+. That doesn’t sound like disability to me, it sounds like gaming the system.

 

[Disney0010]

All of this. I truly feel for those that need DAS and now will have an even more difficult time getting DAS approved and then there are those that have abused the system. I believe in karma. They may feel that they’re getting away with something now, but down the road it might just come back and bite them square in the rear end.

And they can go get on other rides while everyone else has to wait in that line. I know many ppl who abuse the system and request DAS and say it helps them get through the park because they don’t want to walk or it’s too hot or don’t want to wait in line. So they get a return time for DAS and go get on other rides or use genie to get in other stuff. So for something that is supposed to be equal or reasonable accommodation many people are abusing it

Ah, I hadn't noticed that in the FAQ. Here's what it says:

What happens if any of the statements made by a Guest in the process of registering for DAS are found to be not true?
If it is determined that any of the statements a Guest made in the process of obtaining DAS are not true, the Guest will be permanently barred from entering the Walt Disney World Resort and the Disneyland Resort, and any previously purchased Annual Passes, Magic Key passes, tickets and other park products and services will be forfeited and not refunded.

 

[Einstein509]

Just speculating here--but I think all these changes are truly just trying to achieve 1 sole desired result and that is to shorten LLs and wait times. Growing wait times are not fair to anyone--those on a DAS, those with Genie+, those who pay outright for LL access, and those waiting standby--Every guest benefits from shorter lines. I personally believe that we will actually see very little change in terms of who qualifies--if you've qualified for a DAS for the past 5 years, I highly doubt that you will be denied assistance. I do think that we will see drastic differences in how the resultant accommodations apply though. Just as Disney states on the website, I do think the "DAS Pass" will be used primarily for young families with children with developmental disabilities--I believe they will attempt to limit the number of guests to 4 however I think frequent changes/allowances will be made depending on the situation. (ex: Grammy may accompany mom and dad in line to keep an eye on 1 or 2 neurotypical children as the parents see to their other child). I think other guests who qualify, mainly adults who can not manage the cue but whose limitations are not due to a developmental or cognitive issue, will still be granted "access", however they may be asked to utilize other tools to address their issues with waiting in line. For small groups of 2 or 3, things will most likely continue in the same manner as before. But for groups of 5 or greater, alternative solutions will be utilized. Disney specifically mentions Rider Switch and Single Rider on the website. I think Disney will slightly modify or revamp these areas to allow for the accommodation. Remember, with the ultimate goal being to minimize LL length and wait times--Rider Switch can easily be modified to allow for half the party to wait in line, while the guest with the accommodation waits with other members of their group in a more appropriate location (wherever that may be)--there will be no more "parties of 10" being granted access. I know it's not optimal to separate families/groups but the goal is to provide a solution for the difficulty waiting in the cue, not to keep all members together. This is also the reason why the traditional "DAS Pass" will be reserved for children with developmental disabilities and their families--Disney is not going to separate young children from their siblings and they will not ask for 1 adult to provide all the care, attention, coaxing, soothing, supervision, etc. that may be required when multiple adults could provide care by keeping the party together. The changes would significantly cut LL length and wait times, thus; allowing for an improved experience FOR ALL THEME PARK GUESTS. There will be exceptions of course (ex: 1 adult tending to 5 or 6 children)--but these situations will be few and far between, thus; easily managed by CMs). I'm not saying that I agree with the possible changes I've outlined--but I do believe that as adults, we must recognize that changes are necessary and imminent and that it's on all of us individually to assess these changes, and to decide if this is still the place where we want to spend our time, money, and energy.

So I don't believe this new system will actually lower LL lines because it's very likely people that would've gotten DAS under the old system will now be forced to buy Genie+ to even enjoy the parks. So the LLs will still have roughly the same amount of people. It's a complete money grab on Disney's part, that's it, end of story. Don't really care how they spin it, that's what it is. It's been like that with almost everything except the parking fee reversal lately. It's all about cost cutting, increasing prices or finding ways to charge for things that used to be free. Iger is all about pleasing the shareholders.

We were pretty much done with Disney, but this really solidifies things even more for us. We let our APs lapse in 2019/2020 and haven't been back to a park. Enough is enough.

 

[ClaraOswald]

And they can go get on other rides while everyone else has to wait in that line. I know many ppl who abuse the system and request DAS and say it helps them get through the park because they don’t want to walk or it’s too hot or don’t want to wait in line. So they get a return time for DAS and go get on other rides or use genie to get in other stuff. So for something that is supposed to be equal or reasonable accommodation many people are abusing it

Getting a DAS return and then going on an attraction with a short line during that wait time is not abuse of the system. Disney actually suggests doing this.

Including us and I feel bad about it for a minute. If they only understood how many people I avoid hitting in the head with our car seat by boarding early. With no luggage!

And my DD kids are ready to run off that plan the moment we start our descent.

Yep, us too. My son is autistic and we fly Southwest. The waiting in the queue to get on the plane would be a killer and basically set him up for a horrible flight. So we pre-board and get him settled. Yes, we take seats a few rows back so we can also get off quickly for his sake as well. We don't use any overhead bin space though.

 

[starlite_]

So I don't believe this new system will actually lower LL lines because it's very likely people that would've gotten DAS under the old system will now be forced to buy Genie+ to even enjoy the parks. So the LLs will still have roughly the same amount of people. It's a complete money grab on Disney's part, that's it, end of story. Don't really care how they spin it, that's what it is. It's been like that with almost everything except the parking fee reversal lately. It's all about cost cutting, increasing prices or finding ways to charge for things that used to be free. Iger is all about pleasing the shareholders.

We were pretty much done with Disney, but this really solidifies things even more for us. We let our APs lapse in 2019/2020 and haven't been back to a park. Enough is enough.

Genie+ debuted in 2021, how can it possible be to blame for you not renewing your APs 1-2 years before it existed???

 

[nalababybear]

Interesting how many folk have been done with Disney for years, yet still troll the boards. estranged spouse level stalking I suppose. If you're done with Disney, be done with them.

LL being 30+Minutes isn't helping anyone.

Disney is trying to make a growing untenable situation in the queues to be better. Like any change management, many are going to have to change a little for the greater good of the change. Will it be more equitable? Probably.

 

[brentm77]

Yep, us too. My son is autistic and we fly Southwest. The waiting in the queue to get on the plane would be a killer and basically set him up for a horrible flight. So we pre-board and get him settled. Yes, we take seats a few rows back so we can also get off quickly for his sake as well. We don't use any overhead bin space though.

It blows my mind that people are so concerned about getting on a plane five minutes earlier that they are sitting there watching early boarders to see when they get off. Seriously, get a life people. Be glad you don't need the service.

Also, I know many of the people in the disability community would have no problem if the law was changed to allow airlines to request some form of certification (including for service animals). I would gladly welcome it for my daughter (even though her disability is obvious). Cutting down on abuse would benefit everyone who actually needs these services to have better access to the world, and help reduce some of the bigotry disabled individuals face.

 

[brentm77]

Well folks, I would like to say it's been fun, but that wouldn't be true. I am going to try to move on from this subject for the time being, unless I just can't help myself, which is very possible. But I realized this morning that I need to take a break from it and focus on my daughter's own situation and solutions that will work for her. Fortunately, she is in a situation that can be addressed more easily than what a lot of you are dealing with, and we had already concluded before these changes that DAS wasn't something she needed long term, once she is over some lingering hurtles caused by chemo, her amputation, and the like. We also discussed as a family that after this year, we are ready to go out and experience more of Europe, Asia, and other places that can actually be done for a similar price to many of our Disney trips, so whatever Disney does will have less of an impact on her as time goes on.

But I feel for those who aren't in her situation, and it gets me worked up. Seeing the bigotry, closed mindedness, and lack of understanding is bringing me down and I don't have it in me right to debate this more right now. So I will try to move on and save it for another day. Good luck everyone. I hope the new system works out for you in the end and you and your loved ones can continue to have access to the parks that brings so much joy. Again, I am happy (and want) Disney to cut down on abuse, but not at the expense of those who truly need DAS.

 

[tink89]

I mentiones this in a Disney disability group and nearly set off an uproar. My kids can do max 6 things in a day in small increments with hotel breaks. These people claim their adhd kids need to be on a ride constantly so they get das and genie+. That doesn’t sound like disability to me, it sounds like gaming the system.

There’s a lot of gaming the system. I feel bad for the ppl that actually needed it but at the same time it has gotten way out of hand. Out of the last 5 ppl that told me they went to Disneyland 3 used DAS and I know these ppl and they do not need DAS and specifically said they were going to get it to and use xyz as an excuse not for a real issue they have.

 

[tink89]

Getting a DAS return and then going on an attraction with a short line during that wait time is not abuse of the system. Disney actually suggests doing this.



Yep, us too. My son is autistic and we fly Southwest. The waiting in the queue to get on the plane would be a killer and basically set him up for a horrible flight. So we pre-board and get him settled. Yes, we take seats a few rows back so we can also get off quickly for his sake as well. We don't use any overhead bin space though.

Sure using DAS and getting in shorter rides is ok for the people who actually need DAS. The issue is with those that don’t need it. They are going all over the park with dAS and genie while everyone else waits in line.

And thinking about it I think that yes if you are using DaS you shouldn’t be allowed to go on another ride until your return time is up. If ppl with out DAS can’t get on another ride because they are in line then DAS should also just have to wait but have the accommodation of not having to wait in line. That is what would make it fair