Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[LAX]

Do we know of any renter that has successfully done a chargeback - a completed chargeback? Of course, initially the CC takes your side but it does involve a written statement from the CC customer and the entity that gets the chargeback and can flip flop back on the person who called for the chargeback (similar to BBB process). It does not happen in a couple days or a week so my guess is that no one that has done a chargeback has a final answer.

I think it's too early to tell on the final outcomes. Based on my personal experience with a charge back on something else, it's no guarantee. I think it depends on the CC company that one uses (whether it's more customer or merchant friendly). Mine was dragged out for about three months and I eventually "lost." It wasn't several thousands of dollars, but I am not sure what else I could have done if it was a higher amount.

LAX

 

[foreUT]

For almost 15 years the claim of Peace of Mind for both parties was used as a reason to pay an extra 25% or so to a Broker. I think the failure of some Brokers to wisely use a portion of that very significant commission to insulate the Renters and the Owners from the possibility of a catastrophic event (such as now) ruined the PoM argument.

 

[cvjw]

For almost 15 years the claim of Peace of Mind for both parties was used as a reason to pay an extra 25% or so to a Broker. I think the failure of some Brokers to wisely use a portion of that very significant commission to insulate the Renters and the Owners from the possibility of a catastrophic event (such as now) ruined the PoM argument.

That claim was the reason we have rented out thousands of points with him. I wanted him in my corner if a rental went sideways. I no longer have that peace of mind in my recent dealings with his company.

I will no longer use him to rent out any of my points. That bridge is burned. I still have to figure out how to cancel one last rental that I am holding for him in November. I am super happy to send back the 70% that I have received from his company - simply to not have any more business dealings with him. I will use those points myself

 

[Sandisw]

This really begs the question, why would any renter that can do a credit card chargeback and be made whole, would accept a credit voucher with uncertain terms and conditions? I get it, many people, including myself, like David's and would like to keep them in business. But you can keep them in business by renting again once the business normalizes. Airlines and cruise lines, similarly cash-strapped businesses, are doing the same, issuing vouchers for cancelled flights - and my understanding is that, once a customer accepts such a voucher, he gives up on the opportunity to pursue a credit card chargeback.

Honestly, I don’t think they realize they can. Some renters will be told..oh, its non refundable but we will make a special case because resoet is closed and allow you to travel later.

I still do not believe most renters have a true understanding of what booking a DVC reservation is all about.

 

[momincolorado]

Honestly, I don’t think they realize they can. Some renters will be told..oh, its non refundable but we will make a special case because resoet is closed and allow you to travel later.

I still do not believe most renters have a true understanding of what booking a DVC reservation is all about.

Renter here and I completely agree with you. Just look at most of the comments on their FB page - lots of thank yous, oh travel credit is great - most folks are not realizing that the credit may in many cases be completely useless (and that’s assuming he even stays in business).

In my case, David’s informed me a few days ago that owners points were banked from prior years and DVC will not make exception to their expiration so points will expire in May, which means owner cannot re-rent. If owner agrees to send back the 70%, it will go to David’s, who will now have 100% of the payment and offer me some vague travel credit, which I will likely not be able to use (APs expiring). There will be many renters in a similar position, so David makes a nice pile of cash in these cases. I will of course insist on a refund but I doubt I will see one.

 

[CraigInPA]

A business like David's would not go under because of losses - it would just fold when it runs out of cash. Right now it is probably fueled by the 30% deposits retained from reservations through February 2021, so assuming only half the renters would do credit card chargebacks, it may last about 5-6 months.

If they stop paying the 30% to the owners, word will get around that owners aren't getting paid. Once that happens, you'll have owners telling David's to pay up ahead of check in day or will modify the reservation to cut off 30%.

 

[OurDogCisco]

That claim was the reason we have rented out thousands of points with him. I wanted him in my corner if a rental went sideways. I no longer have that peace of mind in my recent dealings with his company.

I will no longer use him to rent out any of my points. That bridge is burned. I still have to figure out how to cancel one last rental that I am holding for him in November. I am super happy to send back the 70% that I have received from his company - simply to not have any more business dealings with him. I will use those points myself

Question, I'm happy to send the 70% back too as well. This is my first time dealing with him for 3 rentals. Anyways, did you get an signed agreement back that your relationship had been terminated with him? I requested a signed agreement between me, David's & the renter that our relationship has been terminated. Just curious if he sent anything saying the agreement had been terminated or just a thank you?

 

[CraigInPA]

It occurs to me that David's is even more liable to the owners than I originally thought.

When an owner signs up, he gives David's the run down of the points: use year, and whether points are banked, current, or borrowed and in which quantities. By choosing to use banked points that would have been at the end of their use year, he created the risk of those points being lost. Because he's been doing this for so long, and is a DVC member himself, he clearly understood the risk. I guess he dismissed the risk because all the agreements say "No Refunds". With a no refund policy, points being lost is a non-issue. But, now they are lost. Because he chose to match the owner up with a renter at the end of the use year, David's is responsible for the list points and owes the owners the full payment.

 

[fsjking]

It occurs to me that David's is even more liable to the owners than I originally thought.

When an owner signs up, he gives David's the run down of the points: use year, and whether points are banked, current, or borrowed and in which quantities. By choosing to use banked points that would have been at the end of their use year, he created the risk of those points being lost. Because he's been doing this for so long, and is a DVC member himself, he clearly understood the risk. I guess he dismissed the risk because all the agreements say "No Refunds". With a no refund policy, points being lost is a non-issue. But, now they are lost. Because he chose to match the owner up with a renter at the end of the use year, David's is responsible for the list points and owes the owners the full payment.

I thought I've read that owners have a choice over which reservation they fill.

 

[Sandisw]

It occurs to me that David's is even more liable to the owners than I originally thought.

When an owner signs up, he gives David's the run down of the points: use year, and whether points are banked, current, or borrowed and in which quantities. By choosing to use banked points that would have been at the end of their use year, he created the risk of those points being lost. Because he's been doing this for so long, and is a DVC member himself, he clearly understood the risk. I guess he dismissed the risk because all the agreements say "No Refunds". With a no refund policy, points being lost is a non-issue. But, now they are lost. Because he chose to match the owner up with a renter at the end of the use year, David's is responsible for the list points and owes the owners the full payment.

The only piece I can add is that when I rented with David’s, I was sent an email, along with a lot of other owners, with the detail of the reservation wanted and then we respond if we are interested in accepting the booking, First one to respond wins

I think there is some responsibility on the owner since they don’t have to accept. I know I would not have accepted one with my borrowed points if it had been too far into my UY.

 

[CraigInPA]

The only piece I can add is that when I rented with David’s, I was sent an email, along with a lot of other owners, with the detail of the reservation wanted and then we respond if we are interested in accepting the booking, First one to respond win

True, but the owner has an expectation that the rental is absolutely non refundable based upon representations made by David's. Because David's is the purchaser of the points, he is assuming the risk of buying points for use at the end of their use year. His contract. His decision to offer to buy from the owner. His loss if anything goes wrong.

 

[Sandisw]

True, but the owner has an expectation that the rental is absolutely non refundable based upon representations made by David's. Because David's is the purchaser of the points, he is assuming the risk of buying points for use at the end of their use year. His contract. His decision to offer to buy from the owner. His loss if anything goes wrong.

I see your point now! You meant he should not even allow an owner to rent points with him if they have a short shelf life to begin with.

 

[cvjw]

Question, I'm happy to send the 70% back too as well. This is my first time dealing with him for 3 rentals. Anyways, did you get an signed agreement back that your relationship had been terminated with him? I requested a signed agreement between me, David's & the renter that our relationship has been terminated. Just curious if he sent anything saying the agreement had been terminated or just a thank you?

not yet. I am still dealing with him on a rental where the renters checked out early (voluntarily) and want a refund. After that is sorted, I am getting out of the November rental.

 

[cvjw]

The only piece I can add is that when I rented with David’s, I was sent an email, along with a lot of other owners, with the detail of the reservation wanted and then we respond if we are interested in accepting the booking, First one to respond wins

I think there is some responsibility on the owner since they don’t have to accept. I know I would not have accepted one with my borrowed points if it had been too far into my UY.

David‘s did not send out the group email to me. When I wanted to rent points, he sent me the rentals directly. And asked would I make the reservations. Guess it was because I rented so many points thru him.

 

[Amymouse13]

Here is the email I received. Removed the names.


We are reaching out to you today in regards to the ______reservation.

As you are aware, COVID-19 has become a pandemic, and Disney Resorts and Operations has made the difficult but brave choice to close “until further notice”. The Disney Vacation Club is cancelling those reservations impacted by their decision and returning points to owner’s accounts.

As a result we are reaching out to inquire if you would be open to helping the _____family during this difficult time.

Reservation #

Check in Date: April 7th, 2020

We ask, at this point, that you do not cancel this reservation if it appears active, but continue to work with us to see if there are any alternatives arrangements that we could pursue to assist this family.

We are asking if you would be willing to return the 70% for the _____ reservation. The funds that are returned will go towards a Travel Credit for the family. This Travel Credit will be in the total amount that the ____paid for their reservation including our commission.

If refunding the money is not feasible, would you be willing to re-rent your returned points? By re-renting your returned points the funds from the new guest will go towards the Travel Credit.

We understand that this is a big request and a situation that we have never encountered. We are hoping that we can all work together to find a viable solution.

Please let us know if you are willing to assist. If you have any questions please don’t hesitate to reach out.

We look forward to hearing from you!

Sincerely,
Cassandra Conley

David’s Vacation Club Rentals

Toll Free: (800) 610-5791

http://www.dvcrequest.com

www.facebook.com/dvcRentals

https://www.pinterest.com/dvcrentals/

#dvcrentals

© 2019 David's Vacation Club Rentals

Cancellation Policy | Privacy Policy | Contact Us

Get the f out... So they want the owners to pay back the money they were given to David's (not the renter) so the owner may end up losing points then the renter gets a worthless voucher and no money? So the only person getting money is David? I sure hope owners aren't doing this. We have mid April reservations. It's a split stay and one owner has cancelled their 4 days but the other has not. From what I've been told their points may expire (but they didn't know) and this was only on phone after many form emails telling me to be patient and not to email again bc it would delay process... Yeah I'm not amused.

My husband guessed the voucher would probably say must be used this year but oh wait nothing is available...

 

[CarolynFH]

True, but the owner has an expectation that the rental is absolutely non refundable based upon representations made by David's. Because David's is the purchaser of the points, he is assuming the risk of buying points for use at the end of their use year. His contract. His decision to offer to buy from the owner. His loss if anything goes wrong.

I see your point now! You meant he should not even allow an owner to rent points with him if they have a short shelf life to begin with.

I see the point too, but I’m not sure it’s David’s responsibility to manage the owner’s points in that way.

 

[Minniemoo15]

I notice they are deleting posts on their FB page. Someone commented critically, but still politely, about the travel credits and warning renters not to blindly take it. The post was deleted within minutes.

I have both rented points, and rented my own points, through Davids many times. I have recommended them to many others due to their top notch customer service.

But this all leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I would not recommend that anyone use them going forward, at least in the next couple of months to see how this all shakes out.

I feel badly for everyone involved - renters, owners and the front line employees of Davids who are trying to manage this within the parameters given by their company.

 

[GoofyCoaster]

As an owner, I would be wary of returning cash back to David. It is doubtful it will make it back to your renter. The most recent email from David’s reads that renters will be offered future travel credit. So the refund you returned in good faith will go towards David’s chargebacks and business expenses and your renter may end up with a useless travel credit.

If my points were expiring in April or June, I’d take the 70% and just walk away. That 70% approximates a 50/50 split for what is essentially no-fault situation on the part of the owner.

If my points had longevity, I’d try to book another reservation for a renter.

But no way would I send money back to David right now.

 

[lawboy2001]

Get the f out... So they want the owners to pay back the money they were given to David's (not the renter) so the owner may end up losing points then the renter gets a worthless voucher and no money? So the only person getting money is David? I sure hope owners aren't doing this. We have mid April reservations. It's a split stay and one owner has cancelled their 4 days but the other has not. From what I've been told their points may expire (but they didn't know) and this was only on phone after many form emails telling me to be patient and not to email again bc it would delay process... Yeah I'm not amused.

My husband guessed the voucher would probably say must be used this year but oh wait nothing is available...

DIS-gusting! "Help out the X family..." if the goal is to "Help out the X family", he should be asking the owners for the 70% back TO REFUND THE MONEY TO THE RENTER. Not keep it and use this silly travel credit invention as an excuse.

As I have indicated on another thread, if the renter cannot check in because of this current closure, I think that returning money to the renters s what should happen, legally, in this case, since the contract has been frustrated.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

I am so incredibly frustrated with the poor communication on their end. It takes days for a response, which is almost always canned and does not address issues raised in previous emails. That, combined with them pulling the reviews from their Facebook page has me freaked out. I think we will be looking into filing a dispute or moving forward with our insurance tomorrow. The ironic part of all of this is we are insured and covered for this, but their choice to publicly bend on the no refunds policy has us stuck having to try and get our money back before we can make our claim.

I know I’ve posted our gripes many times already, but the pulling the reviews is really shady, IMO. I think we’re done waiting and giving a chance. Oh and if we were on the owner side, there is no way I would be giving back that 70% knowing it is going to the travel credit. I’m pretty annoyed they are funding the travel credits with money the owner is sending back.