Defunding The Police

[JimMIA]

Here's a listing of the 110 police officers who have died in the line of duty so far in 2020 -- and we're not even halfway through the year.

Read the names, departments, dates and causes of death. The first one, on January 1, 2020, died of cancer as a result of his exposure at Ground Zero on September 11, 2001.

Look at the faces -- 98 men and 12 women from almost every state and territory. Whites, Blacks, Hispanics, Native Americans, Hawaiians, Asians, and many other ethnic/ancestral backgrounds. All brothers and sisters in death.

And it's only June...

https://www.odmp.org/search/year?year=2020

 

[jiminyC_fan]

Here's a listing of the 110 police officers who have died in the line of duty so far in 2020 -- and we're not even halfway through the year.

Read the names, departments, dates and causes of death. The first one, on January 1, 2020, died of cancer as a result of his exposure at Ground Zero on September 11, 2001.

Look at the faces -- 98 men and 12 women from almost every state and territory. Whites, Blacks, Hispanics, Native Americans, Hawaiians, Asians, and many other ethnic/ancestral backgrounds. All brothers and sisters in death.

And it's only June...

https://www.odmp.org/search/year?year=2020

Thank you for posting. I think this is extremely important for the defund defenders to read.

 

[JimMIA]

Thank you for posting. I think this is extremely important for the defund defenders to read.

And note how many of them died of COVID-19 while we were all "sheltering in place," safe, happy, and comfortable in our homes with our families.

 

[skyblue17]

Thank you for posting. I think this is extremely important for the defund defenders to read.

This makes it seem like people who support a reform that includes allocating funds to various other resources don't realize that cops die.

No one is debating that being a cop is dangerous. We are, however, stating that cops need reform. I'm not sure how this stat is relevant to that stance.

 

[JimMIA]

This makes it seem like people who support a reform that includes allocating funds to various other resources don't realize that cops die.

No one is debating that being a cop is dangerous. We are, however, stating that cops need reform. I'm not sure how this stat is relevant to that stance.

Well, first of all, it's not the "stats." It's the faces and stories, and families behind the numbers.

They, and others like them, are what some want to defund.

I think it's relevant, but if you don't want to read their stories that's your call.

 

[skyblue17]

Well, first of all, it's not the "stats." It's the faces and stories, and families behind the numbers.

They, and others like them, are what some want to defund.

I think it's relevant, but if you don't want to read their stories that's your call.

But again, this misrepresents what "defund" means. Of course, it's a tragedy that people die in the line of duty. That people risk their lives to serve their community is honorable. But it doesn't mean that there should be no reform, and no reallocation of funding to better serve the community.

Maybe I'm still not getting your point, but you seem to think that those who want to defund the police have some personal vendetta against the individuals who are cops and can't sympathize with their individual stories, and I'm not sure what anyone explaining why they feel this is a necessary move said to imply that is how they feel.

 

[JimMIA]

But again, this misrepresents what "defund" means.

That is what it means to the originators of the term, and to many adherents of the idea. Their idea, like the CHAZ/CHOP area in Seattle, is to completely eliminate police services.

To others, it means reallocate some funds from police budgets to other purposes. My personal opinion of that idea is that it's a normal function of any government and all agencies of government should have their budgets reviewed to ensure the taxpayers are getting their money's worth.

And then there are some who go back and forth between those alternatives depending on how the conversations are trending, lol. A few days ago, CHAZ/CHOP was a tranquil art festival, but after the three shootings some would now rather talk about adequately funding mental health programs.

 

[shelemm]

That is what it means to the originators of the term, and to many adherents of the idea.

'Many' adherents also believe the principle displayed in that ice cream graphic. They want to defund the police so they can start from scratch. The Camden example, though not prefect, shows real progress is possible.

 

[dsnymnkyuncle]

Well, first of all, it's not the "stats." It's the faces and stories, and families behind the numbers.

They, and others like them, are what some want to defund.

I think it's relevant, but if you don't want to read their stories that's your call.

At the risk of sounding like a jerk, how many protesters will die this year?
Dying of cancer is terrible, had family members eaten away. Yet it is not relevant to murder. It seems, again, related to marketing of some sort. I am absolutely sure you are not meaning to compare nor imply deaths from other reasons to murder but it comes across that way to many. It simply does not matter how much of 'life' happens to police officers, it is not relevant to what happened in ATL. It is relevant to fire one side up. So in some terms, it's probative value is outweighed by its prejudicial.

 

[JimMIA]

'Many' adherents also believe the principle displayed in that ice cream graphic. They want to defund the police so they can start from scratch. The Camden example, though not prefect, shows real progress is possible.

But the Camden example is not an example of defunding at all.

Camden didn't go in and gut the police budget or eliminate police services altogether as has been proposed in Minneapolis. They just brought in a new team with predictably good results.

One of the silly things about this whole debate is that there are numerous models (hundreds) all over the US of police departments who serve their communities very well. They have accountability, transparency, mutual respect with the community and all the actually important things that make a good police department.

But nobody is willing to do the difficult work to convert a bad department to a good department at the local level. Instead, they parrot slogans they don't even understand like "Defund the police!"

Slogans and selfies are easy. Real change is very difficult, and Camden is an excellent example of that. Camden didn't happen easily, but it was worth the effort.

 

[mrsap]

At the risk of sounding like a jerk, how many protesters will die this year?
Dying of cancer is terrible, had family members eaten away. Yet it is not relevant to murder. It seems, again, related to marketing of some sort. I am absolutely sure you are not meaning to compare nor imply deaths from other reasons to murder but it comes across that way to many. It simply does not matter how much of 'life' happens to police officers, it is not relevant to what happened in ATL. It is relevant to fire one side up. So in some terms, it's probative value is outweighed by its prejudicial.

Was this relevant? I’m honestly curious - Were you all just as equally outraged when this happened?


A suspect who was killed by police after snipers shot 12 Dallas officers, five fatally, "wanted to kill white people, especially white officers”
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/d...cross-u-s-over-police-shootings-black-n605686

 

[JimMIA]

At the risk of sounding like a jerk, how many protesters will die this year?

Correct me if I'm wrong -- but I believe the number is currently zero.

Dying of cancer is terrible, had family members eaten away. Yet it is not relevant to murder. It seems, again, related to marketing of some sort. I am absolutely sure you are not meaning to compare nor imply deaths from other reasons to murder but it comes across that way to many. It simply does not matter how much of 'life' happens to police officers, it is not relevant to what happened in ATL. It is relevant to fire one side up. So in some terms, it's probative value is outweighed by its prejudicial.

Not sure what you're talking about here. Rayshard Brooks was not protesting anything. He was passed out at the wheel of a car and resisted arrest for DUI.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Correct me if I'm wrong -- but I believe the number is currently zero.

I think the only way I would know if one of the protesters in my state and metro (which is both sides of the state lines) who are/were positive passed away due to COVID-19 is if the news media or their own family outed them. Privacy-wise otherwise I'd never know. The news is the only way I found out that protesters were testing positive or had gone to a protest and were considered positive at that time of them going (thus exposing others).

 

[JimMIA]

I think the only way I would know if one of the protesters in my state and metro (which is both sides of the state lines) who are/were positive passed away due to COVID-19 is if the news media or their own family outed them. Privacy-wise otherwise I'd never know. The news is the only way I found out that protesters were testing positive or had gone to a protest and were considered positive at that time of them going (thus exposing others).

Well, I'm not sure what they mean by the statement above. I think what they're saying is that Covid deaths and cancer deaths directly related to 9/11 should not count as line-of-duty deaths.

If so, that is incorrect. Any death directly related to the performance of an officer's duties is a legitimate line of duty death. I'm sure there are thousands of officers who die of cancer each year, but not related to duty and therefore not counted. Many of the Covid deaths were corrections officers who contracted Covid keeping felons in jail and out of your back yard.

But again, I'm not sure if that's what they meant by that paragraph.

There is also a huge difference between a protester (or anybody else) contracting Covid through some voluntary activity and an officer contracting Covid as a direct result of their service as an officer. A protester is exercising their right of free speech voluntarily. An officer is fulfilling their sworn duty to the community.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Well, I'm not sure what they mean by the statement above. I think what they're saying is that Covid deaths and cancer deaths directly related to 9/11 should not count as line-of-duty deaths.

If so, that is incorrect. Any death directly related to the performance of an officer's duties is a legitimate line of duty death. I'm sure there are thousands of officers who die of cancer each year, but not related to duty and therefore not counted. Many of the Covid deaths were corrections officers who contracted Covid keeping felons in jail and out of your back yard.

But again, I'm not sure if that's what they meant by that paragraph.

There is also a huge difference between a protester (or anybody else) contracting Covid through some voluntary activity and an officer contracting Covid as a direct result of their service as an officer. A protester is exercising their right of free speech voluntarily. An officer is fulfilling their sworn duty to the community.

Ah ok yeah I'm with ya then.

 

[rigs32]

On public defenders - In some places they might be overworked, but in my area they are some of the best criminal defense attorneys around, especially those who handle violent felonies. Many defendants want a "paid lawyer" because much more often that person will jump when they ask and it makes them feel better, even if the end product is the same or worse than free representation.

On prosecutors - Anyone who indicts a case they don't want to take to trial will be doing a lot of miserable trials. I'm not sure where prosecutors have the ability to delay proceedings, cause that's not really a thing in NY unless absolutely necessary. 90% of the time it's the defense that wants more time. More time for officers to forget the details of the incident, more time for civilian witnesses to get cold feet.

On social workers - An officer in my city, a 23 year veteran of the police department, responded to a mental health call. He was attacked by the person and left blind in both eyes. He's extremely lucky he didn't die. I can't imagine any local social workers being willing to respond to a crisis call alone with that in their minds.

 

[jesusfreak75]

The "protestors" are now attacking State Senators and tearing down statues of anti-slavery activists. These "protestors" are going to continue to push and eventually they're going to be met with force they won't be able to handle.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/madison-protesters-tear-down-capitol-072209491.html

 

[jen7233]

The "protestors" are now attacking State Senators and tearing down statues of anti-slavery activists. These "protestors" are going to continue to push and eventually they're going to be met with force they won't be able to handle.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/madison-protesters-tear-down-capitol-072209491.html

Wow, interesting seeing news around the country. Apparently this is what the guy did that got arrested. Went into a restaurant and harassed whomever that was with a megaphone and had a bat.

Go to YouTube and the channel City of Madison Police Department. The video is Coopers Inside with that incident.

 

[wvjules]

The "protestors" are now attacking State Senators and tearing down statues of anti-slavery activists. These "protestors" are going to continue to push and eventually they're going to be met with force they won't be able to handle.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/madison-protesters-tear-down-capitol-072209491.html

Those aren't protesters.

 

[JimMIA]

Those aren't protesters.

Agree 100%. Most protesters are serious people and know very well what they are protesting for or against.

When you see stupid acts like that attack, or tearing down a statue of U.S. Grant (who defeated the Confederacy, hello!) -- you know those people are just there for the selfies, or to loot, or to beat people up. Nothing legitimate going on.