Ft. Wilderness Cabins becoming DVC?

[PCDisFan]

Would this RTU deed structure allow DVD to change the points charts, especially at a resort like CFW where it will be the only form of ownership? Would RTU deeds be for the right to use a percentage of a unit, like current deeded ownership, or what it just be for a right to use a certain number of points?

 

[intamin]

But, to be honest, I have to wonder if the whole “as of right now” part of the plan for Poly tower may have been more than we think? Since they didn’t want to pay any hand regarding this whole trust thing?

I will not be surprised if some of those units at the Poly tower become a trust product and carry restrictions when sold.

This is what I was wondering too before this even cane out and it makes me think that’s why for the longest time they were hesitant to say whether or not it was part of the same association. Yes it technically is part of the sane association but if the points are put into the trust, resale restrictions are back on the menu for new direct points.

 

[intamin]

So basically with the creation of the trust everyone who has trust points will have the 11 month window to all points in the trust and then once resold will have only access to the resort they bought in at?

Am I understanding this correctly? Because if that’s the case once resorts expire like for example BC/BW come back online, nearly everything will be booked there including throughout the 7-11 month window if they throw the entire resort into the trust. Like once SSR comes back as trust points if alll those points can book resorts affiliated with the trust at 11 months wouldn’t that make the 11 month window nearly worthless? It seems like people are saying some units may be deeded real estate and others may be part of trust? Again someone please correct me if my understanding of this is way off which it likely is.

 

[PolyRob]

So basically with the creation of the trust everyone who has trust points will have the 11 month window to all points in the trust and then once resold will have only access to the resort they bought in at?

Am I understanding this correctly? Because if that’s the case once resorts expire like for example BC/BW come back online, nearly everything will be booked there including throughout the 7-11 month window if they throw the entire resort into the trust. Like once SSR comes back as trust points if alll those points can book resorts affiliated with the trust at 11 months wouldn’t that make the 11 month window nearly worthless? It seems like people are saying some units may be deeded real estate and others may be part of trust? Again someone please correct me if my understanding of this is way off which it likely is.

Maybe I misread or misunderstood, but I thought based on this new information that each new resort will be a separate "Trust Use Plan" within the Trust? It's not necessarily confirming that you will have access to every Trust resort in the 11-month window, but rather confirming that you are purchasing a "Right to Use" rather than a deeded ownership interest?

Booking periods and home resorts could theoretically remain the same as we know it.

 

[BeachClub2014]

But, to be honest, I have to wonder if the whole “as of right now” part of the plan for Poly tower may have been more than we think? Since they didn’t want to pay any hand regarding this whole trust thing?

This is what I was wondering too before this even cane out and it makes me think that’s why for the longest time they were hesitant to say whether or not it was part of the same association. Yes it technically is part of the sane association but if the points are put into the trust, resale restrictions are back on the menu for new direct points.

I think a strong argument for this can be made. We've now learned a little more about how the Trust thing will seemingly work with the CFW filings, in which DVD has doubled down on the restrictions to resale points. Seems unlikely that they wouldn't do so at the new Poly Tower if the Trust route offers them an easy vehicle for doing so.

 

[Hubalorian]

Maybe I misread or misunderstood, but I thought based on this new information that each new resort will be a separate "Trust Use Plan" within the Trust? It's not necessarily confirming that you will have access to every Trust resort in the 11-month window, but rather confirming that you are purchasing a "Right to Use" rather than a deeded ownership interest?

Booking periods and home resorts could theoretically remain the same as we know it.

Could they, yes but it would further demises the product imo. Why have a trust set up when the main benefit to a trust vs a deed is to have more options at 11 months

 

[tom1944]

Could they, yes but it would further demises the product imo. Why have a trust set up when the main benefit to a trust vs a deed is to have more options at 11 months

They are setting it up for direct buyers to have 11 month access at multiple resorts. They do not want resale owners to have that benefit.

 

[Bearval]

So basically with the creation of the trust everyone who has trust points will have the 11 month window to all points in the trust and then once resold will have only access to the resort they bought in at?

Am I understanding this correctly? Because if that’s the case once resorts expire like for example BC/BW come back online, nearly everything will be booked there including throughout the 7-11 month window if they throw the entire resort into the trust. Like once SSR comes back as trust points if alll those points can book resorts affiliated with the trust at 11 months wouldn’t that make the 11 month window nearly worthless? It seems like people are saying some units may be deeded real estate and others may be part of trust? Again someone please correct me if my understanding of this is way off which it likely is.

My understanding of how this would work is that owners in the " Trust" can only book up to the number of points in a particular resort that the trust " owns direct". So just because the Trust has points in say BWV but only 10K points, once these are "booked" by members they are " sold out" for that year. This should have minimal to no impact on people who own direct points for booking at the 11 month window since the Trusts points are also direct points. What I do see happening is that you are going to get a lot of disappointed members of the trust who all want the same popular resort where there isn't enough points for everyone so if you think "walking" a reservation is bad now it is going to become an Olympic event.

 

[walt34]

This should have minimal to no impact on people who own direct points for booking at the 11 month window since the Trusts points are also direct points.

As @Sandisw has pointed out in a different thread, this is not necessarily true. If hundreds of trust users can book at the same time as direct owners, even when they are limited in the number of points than can use together, the sheer number would make booking during high demand seasons more difficult. Without additional limitations, one can assume that the limited points booked through the trust would mostly be used in high demand places at high demand times (monorail resorts at Christmas, Epcot resorts during food&wine, etc.). So the number of points wouldn't change but all of the trust owners together are probably less likely to use BCV points in the middle of summer than current owners (of which some do exactly this).

The difficult question is: how will the trust enable access to its points. If it is first come, the above problem is likely.

Different mitigation strategies have been discussed here: only moving full units to the trust (with their allocated points), limiting the trust to booking 1/12 of its point at each resort each month,...

 

[DCJ]

Who knew a vacation could be so complicated?
People thought fastpasses and dining reservations were too much... This is insane.
I had been looking into buying dvc, but the more I look into it, the more I dislike it. Looking at availability was disheartening, but just don't really trust Disney anymore to make the right decisions and the product value may diminish too much with all the new restrictions and complications. Probably better for me to book when there is a discount, let Disney chase me to stay instead of them already having my money.

Just an opinion from non owner who was curious, but now getting turned off.

 

[Nabas]

Who knew a vacation could be so complicated?
People thought fastpasses and dining reservations were too much... This is insane.
I had been looking into buying dvc, but the more I look into it, the more I dislike it. Looking at availability was disheartening, but just don't really trust Disney anymore to make the right decisions and the product value may diminish too much with all the new restrictions and complications. Probably better for me to book when there is a discount, let Disney chase me to stay instead of them already having my money.

Just an opinion from non owner who was curious, but now getting turned off.

It does seem that executives at Disney are making decisions that are increasingly disconnected from the magic that is (was) Disney.

 

[Bearval]

As @Sandisw has pointed out in a different thread, this is not necessarily true. If hundreds of trust users can book at the same time as direct owners, even when they are limited in the number of points than can use together, the sheer number would make booking during high demand seasons more difficult. Without additional limitations, one can assume that the limited points booked through the trust would mostly be used in high demand places at high demand times (monorail resorts at Christmas, Epcot resorts during food&wine, etc.). So the number of points wouldn't change but all of the trust owners together are probably less likely to use BCV points in the middle of summer than current owners (of which some do exactly this).

The difficult question is: how will the trust enable access to its points. If it is first come, the above problem is likely.

Different mitigation strategies have been discussed here: only moving full units to the trust (with their allocated points), limiting the trust to booking 1/12 of its point at each resort each month,...

I can see where if owners of the " Trust" are not given a UY for booking and are allowed first come first served at any 11 month window this is going to be a massive issue especially if they "walk" a reservation. If this is allowed AKL home resort owners can forget about ever getting a value or concierge room in the future ( walking could become such a problem DVC may have to look into how to prevent/discourage the practice)

 

[Bearval]

Who knew a vacation could be so complicated?
People thought fastpasses and dining reservations were too much... This is insane.
I had been looking into buying dvc, but the more I look into it, the more I dislike it. Looking at availability was disheartening, but just don't really trust Disney anymore to make the right decisions and the product value may diminish too much with all the new restrictions and complications. Probably better for me to book when there is a discount, let Disney chase me to stay instead of them already having my money.

Just an opinion from non owner who was curious, but now getting turned off.

My kids are getting older, 1st one is off to college in the fall and the next will follow in 3 years. I can see my Disney days rapidly coming to an end especially with all of the negative changes to the experience.

 

[Bearval]

Could they, yes but it would further demises the product imo. Why have a trust set up when the main benefit to a trust vs a deed is to have more options at 11 months

Well this gets back to " buy where you want to stay". If you bought Saratoga Springs for the low MF's to use as sleep around points at the 7 month window looks like you will be staying there now.

 

[walt34]

Well this gets back to " buy where you want to stay". If you bought Saratoga Springs for the low MF's to use as sleep around points at the 7 month window looks like you will be staying there now.

Why do you think it will impact 7 months availability much? Unless you bought those SSR SAPs direct, you were already limited to the OG 14 and to what was left at 7 months.

 

[Sandisw]

Would this RTU deed structure allow DVD to change the points charts, especially at a resort like CFW where it will be the only form of ownership? Would RTU deeds be for the right to use a percentage of a unit, like current deeded ownership, or what it just be for a right to use a certain number of points?

The rules are the same. They will decide how many points to book all the cabins and that total can be sold.

Once done, it can’t increase later on. They can adjust the charts like they can for every other resort.

Basically, you still buy a set number of points to use and it will function the same way. It’s just you are not a deeded owner in the property.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Well this gets back to " buy where you want to stay". If you bought Saratoga Springs for the low MF's to use as sleep around points at the 7 month window looks like you will be staying there now.

I've always been a proponent of "buy where you want to stay." It's hard to go wrong when you do so. I also think it's too early to tell what impact the Trust model may have on the legacy resorts and availability. I suspect it will be very little. Likely the same impact as if CFW and future resorts were declared into associations as was previously done. I just don't see DVC making it a lot more complicated.

Why do you think it will impact 7 months availability much? Unless you bought those SSR SAPs direct, you were already limited to the OG 14 and to what was left at 7 months.

Good question and that's exactly the point. What's changed?

 

[New Mouse]

1. This trust concept sounds completely insane and like every other timeshare that people typically hate.

2. I guess dvc will start to call themselves a timeshare instead of vacation ownership.

3. Who was out there asking for this? Does dvc really think it will increase sales that much?

4. I have complete faith that Disney would never use this to try to do something deceptive or illegal...................

5. Do we really think IT or the cast members can actually handle the implementation of this from a network or guest setvice side?

 

[MouseEarsMom33]

I've always been a proponent of "buy where you want to stay." It's hard to go wrong when you do so. I also think it's too early to tell what impact the Trust model may have on the legacy resorts and availability. I suspect it will be very little. Likely the same impact as if CFW and future resorts were declared into associations as was previously done.

What's going to happen in 2060 to those of us that bought the newer resorts? Are we only going to have access to those select few?

 

[Brian Noble]

This gets even more complicated.

Maybe it doesn't. This might just change the legal structure under which points are sold, but the way they are used might not change at all.

that's what every John Doe who's already perfected the art of financial incompetence by forcing Disney to foreclose on them will do.

Two things. First: if I remember the TUG conversation about Florida law correctly*, if the owner even responds to the notice, that response serves as an "objection"--that's what I meant when I said it's easy to object accidentally. Second: even setting that aside, and assuming it never happens, it is still easier, faster, and cheaper to terminate a non-deeded interest than to perform a non-judicial foreclosure. A trust model also reserves all voting rights with the developer. That's less important with DVC because the only interesting election is the Board and the developer already votes for the Board in place of the owner in the existing structure. (Disney does not miss a trick.)

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*: IANAL, plus my memory is sh**.