Ft. Wilderness Cabins becoming DVC?

[Cfabar1]

The trust can’t buy anything. DVD gives the trust its property either as a lease or title. Thats it.

DVD then decides when to activate that property as part of a plan to sell RTU interests. And then DVD creates the trust use plan that they will sell to owners.

The restrictions can be put on the trust property because the trust property so far, CFW, entered BVTC with the same rules as VDH and RIV.

If DVD adds the tower units to PVB con association as part of their current vacation plan, those units would become part of the leasehold condo and sold as the rest of PVB was sold.

The only way DVD can add them to PVB and then sell them as a RTU plan is to create a brand new vacation plan that is written like that…the question really is then, if they do that, can they turn over control of those units to the trust if they want, since they remain the owner of those points and thus never declare them for use under the current PVB leasehold condo plan.

If you read the current resort POS, including PVB, it does say it can add things to a resort and never sell them…

But, the more I even go through things and read the trust snd the POS of my home resorts and PVB, the more I realize it would make little sense to even do it and risk issues from owners..

I think I am now at the point that it will be one or the other…it will become part of PVB and sold as a leasehold condo property, or it will be added to the current trust that was created and have its own plan, similar to the Cabins plan, and sold only that way.

I agree with your assessment that it will either be under the PVB association with the existing rules for PVB (no restrictions, 2066 expiration, etc.) or it will be a new plan for the Palmetto Trust.

 

[aka Charles]

But, the more I even go through things and read the trust snd the POS of my home resorts and PVB, the more I realize it would make little sense to even do it and risk issues from owners..

I think I am now at the point that it will be one or the other…it will become part of PVB and sold as a leasehold condo property, or it will be added to the current trust that was created and have its own plan, similar to the Cabins plan, and sold only that way.

I am thinking you may be correct, either one or the other.

Is it possible that using a trust for CFW may be so they could combine it with "Reflections" at a later date, if/when they finally build it?

Also, I could see them flipping some or all of the 2042 resorts into a new trust in Jan/2042.
The only way I see that they could sell that many resorts all at once.
.

 

[Sandisw]

I am thinking you may be correct, either one or the other.

Is it possible that using a trust for CFW may be so they could combine it with "Reflections" at a later date, if/when they finally build it?

Also, I could see them flipping some or all of the 2042 resorts into a new trust in Jan/2042.
The only way I see that they could sell that many resorts all at once.
.

They would not need a trust to add Reflections later on. It could have been done like VGF.

But, I do think this definitely could be the start of the plan on what to do with the 2042 resorts.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I think I am now at the point that it will be one or the other…it will become part of PVB and sold as a leasehold condo property, or it will be added to the current trust that was created and have its own plan, similar to the Cabins plan, and sold only that way.

This is what I've been saying all along...

 

[Jlo85]

But the DVD trust can’t own or contain the units from the PVB longhouses or bungalows because DVD can’t convey them as they don’t own them. The only property that DVD can convey to it is the Poly tower. The trust is not like another owner,, it is an association that has property put in to it by DVD.

It even goes on to say that if property is added to the trust but not activated for use, only DVD can use them…but they then become completely responsible for the inactive parts of the property.

And, if the units were to be added to PVB under a different vacation plan…which is what they’d hsve to do to make them even part of PVB, and the trust, I just don’t know that the rules of each plan has to be the same…

I am looking at this from the terms of the trust DVD created. and not PVB…it says any property part of the trust must be defined when added and only owners of the trust can access trust property.

Since current PVB units can’t be put into the trust, then I don’t see how they get access to trust property.

As I said, since the documents are now filed, can you show me where you read in the DVC trust agreement that DVD can do what you are explaining?

ETA: the terms of the Marriott plan are not part of the way DVD, as the settlor, set up the trust…so, they don’t appear to be doing it that way.

Could DVD have copied that? Probably …but it doesn’t seem like they did. We know how they want their trust to function…what we don’t know is what property and trust use plan will come next.

But, we do have a glimpse with how they added the cabins and set up that plan.

The two things I don’t see are:
1. Where a Trust is prohibited from being an owner. Trusts are owners today (people have their deeds in trusts). Yes, there is the restriction on having another timeshare, but DVC can exempt Palmetto. I’d argue with the Trust Agreement they already have.
2. The trust restricting its property to only trust members. Are you seeing a clause that specifies that? I don’t see that in the trust agreement. And there shouldn’t be a rule in DVC today for that since some owners already have trusts.

I do see DVC would have to implement controls to prevent the trust from using more points at PVB than were conveyed to the trust. But wouldn’t that kind of be the same for any ownership - they have to prevent me from using more points than I have. So I don’t think it’s a difficult control to build.

The activation stuff is because (if it’s like Marriott) even after the units are added to the trust, DVC could decide not to release them to the trust immediately (at their discretion). That’s different from the legacy deeds where declared units are instantly available.

 

[Sandisw]

The two things I don’t see are:
1. Where a Trust is prohibited from being an owner. Trusts are owners today (people have their deeds in trusts). Yes, there is the restriction on having another timeshare, but DVC can exempt Palmetto. I’d argue with the Trust Agreement they already have.
2. The trust restricting its property to only trust members. Are you seeing a clause that specifies that? I don’t see that in the trust agreement. And there shouldn’t be a rule in DVC today for that since some owners already have trusts.

I do see DVC would have to implement controls to prevent the trust from using more points at PVB than were conveyed to the trust. But wouldn’t that kind of be the same for any ownership - they have to prevent me from using more points than I have. So I don’t think it’s a difficult control to build.

The activation stuff is because (if it’s like Marriott) even after the units are added to the trust, DVC could decide not to release them to the trust immediately (at their discretion). That’s different from the legacy deeds where declared units are instantly available.

Because the trust that DVD set up doesn’t allow those things, based on the definitions and clauses I have read.

This is a land trust set up to administer a timeshare estate plan, governed by the situates.

You or or are not setting this type of trust up. So it’s completely different situation.

There is a language..I posted it…that says the property declared must be defined…..which is not defined as points,

If all DVd owns is a fractional share of a unit, they can’t put it into this trust as written because the the unit cant be divided since it’s been declared into a different association

A unit that has other owners, outside of DVD can’t be put in this trust because DVD doesn’t have the authority to do that

However, If you are seeing in the DVD trust agreement or the current POS documents that I have missed or you are interpreting differently. please share that language.

Beyond that, I think we can agree to disagree on what the terms of the trust document say and mean.

 

[Sandisw]

This is what I've been saying all along...

But it’s nice to be able to speculate all the ways DVD could surprise us. They have been known to do that!

Plus, now I feel well educated so that if they do something I feel is against the current POS in my resorts, I have what I need!

 

[Jlo85]

Because trust that DVD set up doesn’t allow those things. It’s in the filed documents.

And there is a clause that says the property declared must be defined..they won’t be declaring points but actual units those points go to. So, if they own a fractional share of a unit, they can’t put it into the trust as written because they can’t divide the unit and a unit that has other owners, outside of DVD can’t be put in this trust because DVD doesn’t have the authority to do it.

However, If you are seeing in the DVD trust agreement or the current POS documents that I have missed or you are interpreting differently. please share those clauses!

I'm guessing you're referring to the "sole beneficiary" clause in the Trust Agreement to say non-trust members can't use trust property. But I personally think that is probably too liberal of a reading. IANAL but I'm guessing that's boilerplate and in most trust agreements.

And if by fractional you mean not whole units, then I agree with you. They would only be able to add undivided units to the trust.

 

[Sandisw]

I'm guessing you're referring to the "sole beneficiary" clause in the Trust Agreement to say non-trust members can't use trust property. But I personally think that is probably too liberal of a reading. IANAL but I'm guessing that's boilerplate and in most trust agreements.

And if by fractional you mean not whole units, then I agree with you. They would only be able to add undivided units to the trust.

Referring to the clauses that say those who own a right in RTU plan have a guaranteed one month priority over those who don’t before trading via BVTC.

 

[RichVIII]

Can the trust plan you buy still be passed on to your children or whoever?

 

[Sandisw]

Can the trust plan you buy still be passed on to your children or whoever?

Yes. It specially says that in the documents! And it even mentions that ROFR would not be required in the case of death, divorce, etc.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Yes. It specially says that in the documents! And it even mentions that ROFR would not be required in the case of death, divorce, etc.

It is sounding more and more like the only practical difference is the trust is now selling a RTU versus a leasehold with an expiry.

 

[Sandisw]

It is sounding more and more like the only practical difference is the trust is now selling a RTU versus a leasehold with an expiry.

It also mentions that trust owners who buy into onenan could very will be given reciprocal rights for other trust properties as home resort booking.

So, that will be a big change.

 

[Brian Noble]

I'm reminded that the documents say a lot of things could happen, many of which have not happened yet. For example: dropping the restrictions on RIV.

I'm generally a constructionist when it comes to timeshares anyway, but I would not buy Cabin points expecting to ever use them anywhere else during the Home Resort period until and unless it was in black and white---and even then I would assume it won't last.

 

[DonMacGregor]

It also mentions that trust owners who buy into onenan could very will be given reciprocal rights for other trust properties as home resort booking.

So, that will be a big change.

Yeah, but I'm just not seeing that as likely. I think an earlier post outlined the issue quite well. If you have a new resort with a very high-demand room category (a la AKV Value Rooms and Savanna View, or BWV Boardwalk Views) and every one who owns at that resort has to battle every single other owner at every other trust resort for those very same coveted rooms at 11 months, things will go off the rails pretty quickly. Plus, there'd be zero benefit to owning a home resort.

 

[Sandisw]

Yeah, but I'm just not seeing that as likely. I think an earlier post outlined the issue quite well. If you have a new resort with a very high-demand room category (a la AKV Value Rooms, or BWV Boardwalk Views) and every one who owns at that resort has to battle every single other owner at every other trust resort for those very same coveted rooms at 11 months, things will go off the rails pretty quickly. Plus, there'd be zero benefit to owning a home resort.

I just think they are moving in that direction. So, you choose a plan to buy into based on what is being sold.

And, maybe the priority will be one month for those who own in the plann the trust owners get access and finally, those who ar emit part is tv trust get access at 7 months..or even less than that…via BVTC.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I just think they are moving in that direction. So, you choose a plan to buy into based on what is being sold.

And, maybe the priority will be one month for those who own in the plann the trust owners get access and finally, those who ar emit part is tv trust get access at 7 months..or even less than that…via BVTC.

Then you really wouldn't "choose" anything. What is being sold then is points that can be used at any trust resort. Nothing to choose from: they work everywhere. You'd just be sold a number of points for your RTU, and would be told what resorts you can use them at and what resort just happens to be the newest (the bright, shiny thing). If every RTU owner has the same booking rights as everyone else, then home resorts become moot: every resort is your home resort and there's zero reason to attach the points to any particular resort.

 

[Cfabar1]

But it’s nice to be able to speculate all the ways DVD could surprise us. They have been known to do that!

Plus, now I feel well educated so that if they do something I feel is against the current POS in my resorts, I have what I need!

Yes so true! This gave me tremendous comfort and has me considering moving forward adding on more points at VGF when the time is right.

 

[Jlo85]

Referring to the clauses that say those who own a right in RTU plan have a guaranteed one month priority over those who don’t before trading via BVTC.

Sorry if you've posted this before, but is this the clause you're referring to? I don't see specific references to an RTU plan, so I'm not sure what you're referring to. The Trust itself is not a vacation plan. It just administers and sells the trust interests. CFW and PVB are the vacation plans. So, I'm not sure what you mean by 'RTU plan'.

 

[West_Coast_DVC_Fam]

When do you think we will hear more details about this from DVD? Soon or do you think we still have a couple months?