Goodbye, Maxpass. Hello, Disney Genie.

[Bossy22]

I was all good with this option, but not that they got rid of regular fastpasses. A paid option is ok but don't take away our free stuff!!!

 

[longtimedisneylurker]

Fastpass rides and experiences before covid shut down the parks:
Disneyland

Star Tours​

Buzz Lightyear​

Space Mountain​

Matterhorn​

Small World​

Roger Rabbit​

Thunder Mountain​

Splash Mountain​

Haunted Mansion​

Indiana Jones​

Fantasmic​

California Adventure

Guardians​

RSR​

Incredicoaster​

Toy Story​

Goofy​

World of Color​

Grizzly​

Soarin'​

So that was 19 attractions.

Autopia used to be fastpass but it was removed. A pp refers to Monsters Inc. portable fastpass machines which I vaguely recall being put into irregular use.
Millennium Falcon and Rise and Webslingers were all built with fastpass lanes but never used for traditional fastpass or Maxpass.

So they say there will be "more than 15" Disney Genie+ attractions at Disneyland resort which means 16, 17, 18, or 19 total because if there were 15 or 20 they would have said 15 or 20, and if there were more than 20, they would have said "more than 20". That video on the blog was obviously very WDW-centric but he mentions Millennium Falcon Smugglers Run suggesting that it will be added to Genie+ for both coasts. RSR is specifically called out as being a further upcharge not included with Genie+ so it's not one of the "more than 15". Rise of the Resistance is referred to as continuing to be available through virtual queue, so I'm guessing they don't plan to add it to Genie+ at rollout. I would think the same holds true for Webslingers.

So my guess is that we are pretty much looking at the list for Genie+ when we review the list of previous fastpass rides. Obviously RSR and I'm guessing anywhere from 1 to 3 additional rides (I wouldn't be shocked if Indy was one) will be pulled out for the even more up-charge tier. And they might decide to put Pirates or Jungle Cruise or Monsters Inc. or something else into the Genie+ based on whatever internal metrics they are using and to keep the attractions number on Genie+ always "more than 15". They don't even necessarily have to keep the Genie+ or additional charge choices static. With the handhelds they give the CMs now, they could add or remove any ride they want from either list though they are more challenged in parts of Disneyland due to space constraints. Where do you put all those Peter Pan lightning lane people when they show up after paying their $15 per ride for instance? And, no, no one said Peter Pan is on either of these lists for Disneyland, but can't you just see it being eyed as a possibility?

 

[DisSurfer878]

Honestly, I wonder the same thing. We use DAS for my daughter and don’t have issues approaching a CM for services, but I know the change will make it easier for some people that aren’t comfortable with or have difficulty approaching a CM. I hope Disney has worked out a way to do this that will make it easier to utilize the service without increasing the incentive for dishonest people to use it without necessity.

I also see in other groups online, many families who are highly distressed over the idea they could be turned down when they get there. I imagine for some people who have this fear that their child or party member is somehow "not disabled enough" that they will be relieved

 

[Chickinvic]

Interesting to see how this plays out.. We loved MP and we’re happy to pay for it to avoid long lines. I’m curious which attractions other than RSR will have the pay per option attached to it. This also makes me more will to spend the big bucks to go to WDW since one of the huge drawbacks for us was FP+

I have always hated FP+ with a passion.

 

[AndrewC]

I was all good with this option, but not that they got rid of regular fastpasses. A paid option is ok but don't take away our free stuff!!!

Of course I think Disney is looking at additional revenue streams, but I also think FastPass wasn't working as well with the crowds of today. FastPass slows down the standby lane, every person using fastpass is one person reducing the capacity of the ride for handling the standby line. Now yes, people that have the fastpass have a good experience, but people that don't have fastpass are now waiting even longer in the standby line because of the "reduced capacity" to serve the line. Disney could probably have limited the amount of fastpasses they handed out for each ride, but then the popular ones would disappear instantly. It probably made guests more frustrated or feeling like the park was insanely busy to see RSR return window of 7:15pm to 8:15pm when they go to pull at fastpass at 10am in the morning.

Removing fastpass should speed up the standby lines a lot. But of course Disney can't say no to more money, so they (hopefully) found a balance. Charge for those that really really want to line jump, but shift more of the capacity of the ride back into the standby line, hopefully reducing the maximum wait time. The average wait time per person will probably go up, but the maximum should hopefully go down. Yes everyone will have to wait 30 minutes but maybe those that can't snag a fast pass won't be waiting 70 minutes.

You also have the people that stand in line AND grab a fastpass. I know I was one of those people. If I saw that the wait time was 40 minutes I might go ahead and jump in line at 11am, but also be holding a fastpass return at 7:15pm. Essentially I'm taking away two capacity slots that day. If I couldn't pull a fastpass but instead only wait in line I might only ride it once that day. Now there is an actual cost to me (in the sense of line waiting time) vs before the "free" passive wait of the fastpass. That might help reduce the overall demand for a ride. Serve more unique guests with the existing capacity you have.

I think it's probably still a net negative for power guests, but think of the family that hasn't been to the park before and doesn't read web sites like this. Now they can go in and just open the app and be guided around in the order that Disney thinks will balance demand. OR, even if they don't use the app, Disney has now devoted more capacity to standby lines so potentially just wandering around the park people will pick the lines that are moving the fastest.

I don't doubt that at some level with real world testing or simulations that this speeds up the overall flow and smooths out the extremes. Maybe we won't see rides that are walk ons during the day but maybe we also don't see 70+ minute waits. What this really says is capacity issues are an underlying thing with Disneyland still and there isn't an easy way to make the most popular rides "less popular" and either Disney hasn't torn out enough old rides to replace with more popular ones, or doesn't want to spend the cash to do so. (Personally I hope they DON'T axe the older rides to make room for new high capacity high demand ones, but let's be honest some of those older rides just aren't pulling their weight when it comes to number of guests per hour.)

 

[Chickinvic]

NEVERMIND, I took a screenshot from the video. It does seem like G+ will require you to complete the experience before booking another G+ reservation:

I highlighted the text after the G+ selection was made.

View attachment 598088

The wording seems to continue and is being covered by "View My Day". I imagine it says or until 90 minutes has passed (or something to that effect).

 

[superdeluxe]

I don’t like it. It looks like you can only have one ride on your pass at a time? Also, the up charge for some rides kind of reeks.

 

[Skyegirl1999]

I’ll admit, that might actually be better for casual guests. But it limits how effective a “MaxPass expert” can be. Interesting.

If it's as simple as "you have to scan into one to use the next one," then yes, this will definitely be true, and probably is part of what they're hoping for.

There won't be too much of a strategy in that case.

For instance at DL with Maxpass, let's say you scanned into the park at 7:40. You booked Space Mountain with an 8:30 return time. At 8:30, you booked Big Thunder with an 8:50 return time. You ride that at 8:50 (maybe even scanning in at 8:45) and book Star Tours with a 9:15 return time. Now, you go and ride Star Tours at 9:10 and easily make it to Space Mountain before your grace period on that one ends at 9:45. You booked it at 7:40, but Space Mountain is your third FP ride of the day.

You had to "understand Maxpass" to do that, which won't exist if it's just, "Ok, I scanned into Big Thunder, what are my options now?"

It will be interesting to see how this goes for sure.

 

[AndrewC]

So my guess is that we are pretty much looking at the list for Genie+ when we review the list of previous fastpass rides. Obviously RSR and I'm guessing anywhere from 1 to 3 additional rides (I wouldn't be shocked if Indy was one) will be pulled out for the even more up-charge tier. And they might decide to put Pirates or Jungle Cruise or Monsters Inc. or something else into the Genie+ based on whatever internal metrics they are using and to keep the attractions number on Genie+ always "more than 15". They don't even necessarily have to keep the Genie+ or additional charge choices static. With the handhelds they give the CMs now, they could add or remove any ride they want from either list though they are more challenged in parts of Disneyland due to space constraints. Where do you put all those Peter Pan lightning lane people when they show up after paying their $15 per ride for instance? And, no, no one said Peter Pan is on either of these lists for Disneyland, but can't you just see it being eyed as a possibility?

I absolutely had that same thought. On a busy high traffic day they hit a couple buttons and make Indy a paid upgrade and no Genie+ available that day. Now your paid Lightning Lane people use the Genie+ lane to get in. On slower days maybe Indy is a standard Genie+ option and isn't even available for a paid option. Disney now has that hard data because of park reservations. They know before gates open if they're above or below the demand level to slot Indy into a paid option or Genie+ option.

What I'm curious about is how many Lightning Lane options there will be a day. It's hard for me to think that it would be only two, but that would explain why they limit a paid upgrade to only two a day. Disneyland though... I can't see too many options showing up though without drastically watering down your standard Genie+ upgrade. Could Disney really get away with having RSR, GoTG, Indy, and Space Mt as Lightning Lane options and NOT in the Genie+ option? That's a lot of big rides that get removed from your $20/day upgrade. If standby times do decrease in general for most rides, you've really minimized the attractiveness of the $20/day Genie+.

 

[ttig34]

The wording seems to continue and is being covered by "View My Day". I imagine it says or until 90 minutes has passed (or something to that effect).

Yeah, would be nice to see what else it says in the area covered by "View My Day". Because if you can only get another one after you have used one, that would definitely be worse than MaxPass.

 

[LizzyS]

Wow, ok. Looks like I'll have to watch the video later! I'm not sure what I think of this so far.

 

[AndrewC]

That's assuming return windows book way out. If you remove the whole free bucket because fastpass is gone, might it be that return windows for most attractions are within 60 to 90 minutes because of the reduced guests tossing $20/day/ticket out there? In that case, holding a max of one at a time might not be that big of an issue. It's only an issue when you grab something that is like 4+ hours away. I would LIKE to think my $20 will unlock a world where 45 minutes to an hour later I'm jumping on a walk on type of deal with my Genie+

Wait in a 30 minute line while I make a reservation with a return window 1 hour away, do my ride and head towards the reservation return, hopefully it's opened up by the time I get there. As soon as I scan in grab another with hopefully a 1 hour or less return window. Complete my ride, jump in another standby line that's 35 minutes long, head to reservation, etc.

Not exactly as tight as MaxPass masters, but could go along way to making that $20 feel a lot more worth it...

 

[Skyegirl1999]

I absolutely had that same thought. On a busy high traffic day they hit a couple buttons and make Indy a paid upgrade and no Genie+ available that day. Now your paid Lightning Lane people use the Genie+ lane to get in. On slower days maybe Indy is a standard Genie+ option and isn't even available for a paid option. Disney now has that hard data because of park reservations. They know before gates open if they're above or below the demand level to slot Indy into a paid option or Genie+ option.

What I'm curious about is how many Lightning Lane options there will be a day. It's hard for me to think that it would be only two, but that would explain why they limit a paid upgrade to only two a day. Disneyland though... I can't see too many options showing up though without drastically watering down your standard Genie+ upgrade. Could Disney really get away with having RSR, GoTG, Indy, and Space Mt as Lightning Lane options and NOT in the Genie+ option? That's a lot of big rides that get removed from your $20/day upgrade. If standby times do decrease in general for most rides, you've really minimized the attractiveness of the $20/day Genie+.

I think Rise and Webslingers are included, too. It could be just two per park, those two plus RSR and Space Mountain. Or one more at each park. I’d be surprised to see many more than that. Maybe if they can figure out how to add Peter Pan…

 

[TikiTikiFan]

Okay my head is spinning trying to get the new terminology correct...

Lighting Lane is now the name for ALL the lines that use what used to be FastPass... whether you purchased Genie+ or one of the 'upcharge' attractions like RSR.

Correct? Or is Lightning Lane the term reserved for JUST the upcharge attractions?

 

[Rich M]

This becomes a premium service. You can choose to do it or not. Nobody is being forced to add on. You can stand in line. If less people will do this and it makes my wait shorter by paying for it then I will gladly pay. People pay $400 an hour for a tour guide. I loved Max Pass like everyone else. More so I can sit in my room and get rides and stack them then anything else.

 

[DLRExpert]

I have hard time believing that a free touring plan option, would really be for the guest experience and not a GENIE+ and Lightning Lane upsell opportunity for Disney.
Why would Disney show or tell someone how to get on a Top Attraction with a low wait Stand By line when they are trying to sell Genie+ and LL.

They should just have stuck with Genie+ (aka new MaxPass) and skip the idea of Top Attraction LL. But Disney could not help their greedy selves.

 

[Chickinvic]

People pay $400 an hour for a tour guide.

From what I've been reading, it is often more like $600 or $700/hr with minimum 7 hours! Too rich for my blood for sure.

 

[Skyegirl1999]

That's assuming return windows book way out. If you remove the whole free bucket because fastpass is gone, might it be that return windows for most attractions are within 60 to 90 minutes because of the reduced guests tossing $20/day/ticket out there? In that case, holding a max of one at a time might not be that big of an issue. It's only an issue when you grab something that is like 4+ hours away. I would LIKE to think my $20 will unlock a world where 45 minutes to an hour later I'm jumping on a walk on type of deal with my Genie+

Wait in a 30 minute line while I make a reservation with a return window 1 hour away, do my ride and head towards the reservation return, hopefully it's opened up by the time I get there. As soon as I scan in grab another with hopefully a 1 hour or less return window. Complete my ride, jump in another standby line that's 35 minutes long, head to reservation, etc.

Not exactly as tight as MaxPass masters, but could go along way to making that $20 feel a lot more worth it...

That’s what I was getting at here:

Ok. About the "90 minute hold." I got to thinking...

RSR was the main ride that ran far ahead on the return time. We know that one is pay-per-ride. Presumably, they've done that for the other rides that used have far-away return times. (Space Mountain, Toy Story: Midway Mania, Indiana Jones, Matterhorn, GOTG Soarin' would be my top guesses, in that order, based on Maxpass return time data.)

And you'll have way less people using FP. No free ones, no AP add-on (yet)...

So I am guessing that they're thinking that the number of people who will pay $20 for FPs all day = ride times won't be that far away.

Presumably they’ve run some simulations…

 

[dieumeye]

As for the list of G+ attractions, I’d guess Monsters will be included. I remember that being added to MaxPass toward “the end”. Seemed like a permanent thing.

I am (was?) a MaxPass fan, and it seemed that the trend was to add attractions to the FP/MP system, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see more Lightening Lanes coming.

Autopia could be added back easily. Would not be surprised to see Pirates added (it already has two lines). The only issue with Peter Pan is the space available. Although now that G+ is an exclusively paid option, they have more incentive to spend money to add Lightening Lanes to get people to pay the up charge, so anything is possible.

 

[AndrewC]

I think Rise and Webslingers are included, too. It could be just two per park, those two plus RSR and Space Mountain. Or one more at each park. I’d be surprised to see many more than that. Maybe if they can figure out how to add Peter Pan…

If I can buy my way onto Rise and Webslingers holy cow. I hate opening the wallet more for Disney, but as an out of state guest that is spending thousands to travel down for a week and stay on site, I'll toss an extra $15/$20 a ride towards those two attractions so I can ride them a few times during my week. For locals, or people within drive distance that might visit a couple times a year, it's probably way not worth it. My worry is I'll miss a boarding group on one or two days (or more!) while I'm down there. Than my thousands of dollars feels a bit more wasted getting only to experience Rise once or twice across the whole week, or maybe less if I'm super unlucky!

My understanding would be that those would remain virtual queue (boarding group) and that new rides going forward would likely open as virtual queue for however long it took before demand settled down to a level that normal lightning queue/standby could handle them...