Goodbye, Maxpass. Hello, Disney Genie.

[Chickinvic]

Or, Disney could have simply brought back the prior Maxpass and FP system to Disneyland and started Maxpass at Disneyworld…

Yes, that would have been fine with me too. Whatever the case, I really despised their FP+ system and am glad to see it bite the dust. Disneyland was already perfect

 

[DLRExpert]

Some more thoughts after watching some vlogs and seeing some images.
- The free touring plan will mostly benefit Disney and not the Guest. I noticed on some screenshots that the My Tip Board shows Stand By Wait Times right next to the Lightning Lane and Genie+ upsell button.

- The Top Attractions feature screams greed. All this will do is lessen Genie+ purchases. Which in turn might be a good thing because it will make Stand By tolerable for these "Top Attractions" as I cannot see many people purchasing Genie+ with the additional Top Attraction fees.

- All Disney had to do is keep it exactly as it was for Maxpass. Position the removal of free FP by saying that the Genie+ service is still much cheaper than any competing park and the extra fees would go towards further park improvements and additions.

 

[ComeToSocialize]

• DisneyTouristBlog seems to think that stacking will be possible - he specifically says 2 hours max wait between genie+ selections. He often has inside sources for this stuff, as I have not seen that confirmed anywhere. He does not acknowledge that it used to be 90 min for Maxpass, but his article is more WDW centric anyways
  • How the stacking will work is honestly critical to whether I buy an annual pass. I actually loved Maxpass because you could pop in early, ride a few rides / snag some instant or near instant Maxpasses, leave after a couple hours and do other stuff (we have family in Anaheim area) while stacking Maxpass for the evening, come back and bang out those 3-4 Maxpass rides you stacked. If you can't do that, the desirability of leaving mid-day comes down a lot... and if we need to be there all day to get value, we're going to go less often, meaning maybe no Magic Key, particularly if it's pay per day on Genie+
• I personally think the regular unpaid Genie stuff is 100% window dressing to obscure all the new upsells. First timers are not going to hand over their itinerary to a random disney app they know nothing about. Regulars are not going to use it for anything. I also don't think it will really work
• It will be very interesting to see uptake of both G+ and pay per ride, and what the impact is on standby waits. I will say at the height of Maxpass, lines were too skewed toward Maxpass and I couldn't imagine not using Maxpass. Maybe that changes in the new regime.

 

[Skyegirl1999]

Disneyland never had those tiers (thankfully). I so hated FP+.

This was in reference to “replacement FPs” (multiexperience passes) which actually had moved to a tiered system at DL.

Basically, you couldn’t have Grizzly River Run break down and take your replacement FP over to RSR (which was possible back in the day). You’d get a list of comparable rides you could use it at on the multi-experience pass in the app.

But it’s going to be different now - if someone paid $20 per person to ride ROTR at 3:00pm and then it breaks down, nothing is going to be an acceptable “substitute” ride. But if you just refund them, then they don’t get to ride it at all. So… what to do?

 

[brightlined]

But their Fastpass+ system was pretty useless to anyone staying off site. I think this will be MILES better for someone like me at WDW (who doesn't choose to stay at one of their resorts). FP+ was such a huge turn off. I honestly hardly ever bothered with a fast pass at WDW due to it.

I'll gently disagree - I found FP+ at WDW to be very, very useful to me as an off-site guest. But that's also because I knew the tricks.

I knew I could time my three morning FPs to be back-to-back-to-back, arrive at the park near the end of the first FP time, and get three great rides in the span of a little over an hour, then bash the app the rest of the afternoon to see what other juicy FPs I could get.

Sometimes, I would play "FastPass Roulette" at the hotel in the morning - bash the app for ten or fifteen minutes and see which marquee attraction it might spit out. That would tell me which park I would start at that day. (One Saturday morning, I was driving from MCO to Tampa and knew I had about an hour to spend at a park that morning, so I bashed the app for ten minutes. It gave me a Slinky Dog Dash FP for right at the end of that hour. On a Saturday.)

("Bashing the app" kinda worked with MaxPass at DL, too. If you went forwards and backwards on the MP page, it would sometimes give out, for example, an RSR FP for like an hour from now - though you had to be very, very fast to confirm it because the app wouldn't hold onto it for any length of time, unlike the WDW app.)

My favorite trick - they tended to release Flight of Passage FP's every day between 3pm and 3:05pm, so I knew I could just bash the app for those five minutes and have a reasonably high likelihood of getting one. I almost felt guilty walking into FOP at 4:30pm, knowing that I had gotten the FP at 3pm, and skipped ahead of people who had been in line since 1pm.

Of course, that doesn't mean it was great for anybody else. But I got miles and miles out of it.

 

[Nonsuch]

I’m more annoyed at the potential process - having to go through THREE separate transactions (G+, LL1, LL2) after tagging into a park, not to mention any decision making that needs to be done about when/where…I just want to pay and be done with it.

I hope the checkout process is smooth—like, I don’t even want to enter my CVV code. I just want to be off my phone and off and running.

The Disneyland App supports Apple Pay, which has greatly streamlined mobile ordering -- for those with iPhones.

 

[dieumeye]

Thought experiment:

What if G+ was FREE, but the cost of tickets was increased $20 across the board?

Would people be happier with that?

Tickets increase $20. G+ is free. But there are a few top attractions not included in G+ that require an extra fee to use the LL queue.

I think that might have been more well received. There would still be gripes about the additional charges for top attractions, but it would be balanced by the perception that MaxPass (which used to cost) is now free as G+.

 

[Nonsuch]

...Many times, we may go for a few hours, ride a few rides, grab some food, and go home...
...Apparently, we are the kind of visitor the Disney wants to get rid of, and I hear them loud and clear...

You are likely correct.
Disney wants guests to spend the whole day in the parks.

 

[Epicnemesis]

- All Disney had to do is keep it exactly as it was for Maxpass. Position the removal of free FP by saying that the Genie+ service is still much cheaper than any competing park and the extra fees would go towards further park improvements and additions.

This is where I am too. If they just rebranded max pass and got rid of the free fast pass I think most people would be fine. Bob Chapek’s Disney is losing its magic and has become too exploitative.

 

[Skyegirl1999]

Thought experiment:

What if G+ was FREE, but the cost of tickets was increased $20 across the board?

Would people be happier with that?

Tickets increase $20. G+ is free. But there are a few top attractions not included in G+ that require an extra fee to use the LL queue.

I think that might have been more well received. There would still be gripes about the additional charges for top attractions, but it would be balanced by the perception that MaxPass (which used to cost) is now free as G+.

It wouldn't work logistically.

The system is predicated on the idea that not everyone will use it. If every person in the park can book fastpass access on their phones... then it loses its value. "If everyone is super, no one is!" and all that...

If it WOULD work logistically, and we're just thinking in terms of what people would be happier with, it's hard to tell... But probably people would say, "Grandma doesn't want FP access anyway, so we'd rather not pay $20 for her."

I still don't think G+ is the part of it that people really have an issue with. It's the top-tier attraction charges...

 

[Skyegirl1999]

If they just rebranded max pass and got rid of the free fast pass I think most people would be fine.

I agree. I don't think too many people actually expected free FPs to come back at DL once they took out all the machines. And I also think people were expecting MP to go up in price. "Maxpass is back at $30 per day and now there's no more free FP at all" would have been better received than the pay-per-ride system...

 

[poptart90]

Just watched the video again and something stood out at the roughly :50 mark. To summarize:

"Enter what you want to do (etc) and Genie evaluates hundreds of thousands of combinations of a day..."

Seems like Genie is just a Master Herding Bot.

The App "Evaluates" how many people select Attraction X, then redirects a portion of those to the attraction immediately while sending each other portion in different directions eventually rotating each group back to Attraction X at a predesigned time according to Genie.

To work well in the free mode, it would have to account for those that pay for Genie+ each day and the LL purchases on the fly, which I imagine is where the "Genie Flies In With A Tip" part works. If things get backed up, Genie can offer a tip to stop for a different attraction or a snack, etc.

Regardless, somebody will be glued to their phone (which I'm fine with having been the designated the MaxPasser for the last few years) but the battery drain and connectivity will be something to consider if everyone is utilizing this App.

Also wondering if Genie+ will work outside the park, once your ticket/pass/key has been activated for the day, like MaxPass. It was great to have the kids napping at the hotel, but still be planning for the evening. Again, I guess that comes down to if you can stack Genie+ selections, like MaxPass...PLEASE!!

 

[Gaugersaurus]

I agree. I don't think too many people actually expected free FPs to come back at DL once they took out all the machines. And I also think people were expecting MP to go up in price. "Maxpass is back at $30 per day and now there's no more free FP at all" would have been better received than the pay-per-ride system...

I agree, a higher maxpass price would've been easier to swallow than this announcement. Also, is anyone else getting tired of Disney using "increased guest experience/flexibility" as their PR term for "our new way to nickel and dime you"

 

[Skyegirl1999]

I've figured out what my personal way of dealing with breakdowns for the "pay-per-ride" top-tier attractions would be.

1. The pass converts to an "anytime" pass to use that day, if the ride comes back up. So if I have ROTR at 3:00-4:00 and it goes down during that window, I automatically get a pass good to come back to ROTR anytime that day.

2. If, at the end of the day, I never redeemed that pass - I get refunded for it. Could be because the ride never came back up, or could be because it did, later, but I didn't feel like riding anymore...

No swapping for other rides. I get the ride I paid for, or I get refunded.

That's probably not what they'll do. But that's what makes the most sense to me.

 

[Skyegirl1999]

• I personally think the regular unpaid Genie stuff is 100% window dressing to obscure all the new upsells. First timers are not going to hand over their itinerary to a random disney app they know nothing about. Regulars are not going to use it for anything. I also don't think it will really work
• It will be very interesting to see uptake of both G+ and pay per ride, and what the impact is on standby waits. I will say at the height of Maxpass, lines were too skewed toward Maxpass and I couldn't imagine not using Maxpass. Maybe that changes in the new regime.

I agree that the free "Genie" part is largely a system to sell us stuff, and I also agree that a lot of people won't use it at all.

BUT, I do know people who will use it. There's a segment of the population (especially at DL, traditionally, as opposed to WDW) that just shows up for the day and has no idea what's going on, and they will be happy to do what the app tells them to do. It will be interesting to see if that's enough people to move the needle on crowd behavior. If it does work well enough to make people feel happy about their day (and therefore recommend it to others), it could make a difference.

To be clear, I am super skeptical of it in general, and I can't imagine it's of any use to any person who has found his/her way here. But there are people out there who will try it. I 100% want to run an experiment one day where half a group uses the Genie and the other half uses their brains, and see how that goes... Like, I think some of us should set this up and do a comparative study.

I'm also very interested to see the effect of all of this on standby waits. I think they clearly decided they had too many people using FP lines vs. standby lines, and I wonder how the proportions will be different now.

 

[poptart90]

I've figured out what my personal way of dealing with breakdowns for the "pay-per-ride" top-tier attractions would be.

1. The pass converts to an "anytime" pass to use that day, if the ride comes back up. So if I have ROTR at 3:00-4:00 and it goes down during that window, I automatically get a pass good to come back to ROTR anytime that day.

2. If, at the end of the day, I never redeemed that pass - I get refunded for it. Could be because the ride never came back up, or could be because it did, later, but I didn't feel like riding anymore...

No swapping for other rides. I get the ride I paid for, or I get refunded.

That's probably not what they'll do. But that's what makes the most sense to me.

Totally agree with this. I would not be happy with a substitute if I paid for a specific attraction.

Since Genie+ is "similar" to MaxPass, what if the ride goes down during your return window? It's a paid service too, albeit not a pay-per-ride. Would a Multi Experience Pass be acceptable then, like the MaxPass? Or do you think they will even offer a substitute? I remember having the go to customer service several times to have them load a Multi when Racers was down and the App wasn't updating well...it was a pain. Definitely not enhanced guest experience or flexibility! lol

 

[poptart90]

To be clear, I am super skeptical of it in general, and I can't imagine it's of any use to any person who has found his/her way here. But there are people out there who will try it. I 100% want to run an experiment one day where half a group uses the Genie and the other half uses their brains, and see how that goes... Like, I think some of us should set this up and do a comparative study.

Or maybe another group could do the OPPOSITE of Genie's suggestions! See what happens then!

 

[Chickinvic]

I'll gently disagree - I found FP+ at WDW to be very, very useful to me as an off-site guest. But that's also because I knew the tricks.

I knew I could time my three morning FPs to be back-to-back-to-back, arrive at the park near the end of the first FP time, and get three great rides in the span of a little over an hour, then bash the app the rest of the afternoon to see what other juicy FPs I could get.

Sometimes, I would play "FastPass Roulette" at the hotel in the morning - bash the app for ten or fifteen minutes and see which marquee attraction it might spit out. That would tell me which park I would start at that day. (One Saturday morning, I was driving from MCO to Tampa and knew I had about an hour to spend at a park that morning, so I bashed the app for ten minutes. It gave me a Slinky Dog Dash FP for right at the end of that hour. On a Saturday.)

("Bashing the app" kinda worked with MaxPass at DL, too. If you went forwards and backwards on the MP page, it would sometimes give out, for example, an RSR FP for like an hour from now - though you had to be very, very fast to confirm it because the app wouldn't hold onto it for any length of time, unlike the WDW app.)

My favorite trick - they tended to release Flight of Passage FP's every day between 3pm and 3:05pm, so I knew I could just bash the app for those five minutes and have a reasonably high likelihood of getting one. I almost felt guilty walking into FOP at 4:30pm, knowing that I had gotten the FP at 3pm, and skipped ahead of people who had been in line since 1pm.

Of course, that doesn't mean it was great for anybody else. But I got miles and miles out of it.

I had zero interest in "bashing the app" at any point in my day. Just not into that at all. I stand by my original feeling that FP+ sucked hard lol.

 

[Skyegirl1999]

Totally agree with this. I would not be happy with a substitute if I paid for a specific attraction.

Since Genie+ is "similar" to MaxPass, what if the ride goes down during your return window? It's a paid service too, albeit not a pay-per-ride. Would a Multi Experience Pass be acceptable then, like the MaxPass? Or do you think they will even offer a substitute? I remember having the go to customer service several times to have them load a Multi when Racers was down and the App wasn't updating well...it was a pain. Definitely not enhanced guest experience or flexibility! lol

Yeah, I expect you'll get a multi-experience then just like you used to. They've already siphoned off the highest-demand rides, so the rest are pretty interchangeable.

Of course, if you're at DCA-only for the day and they've pulled anything besides RSR into the "pay per ride" model, it doesn't leave a lot left to switch to if something goes down. Come to think of it, I am curious about how this will all work at WDW, which has way fewer rides per park. I don't feel like they all have enough rides to support "top attraction" pay-per rides AND leave enough left for Genie+ to be worth it? Especially if anything breaks down? Hmm. I'm supposed to go to WDW next summer, so I guess I'll keep a bit of an eye on what they're up to over there at some point...

 

[MonocularVision]

Also wondering if Genie+ will work outside the park, once your ticket/pass/key has been activated for the day, like MaxPass. It was great to have the kids napping at the hotel, but still be planning for the evening. Again, I guess that comes down to if you can stack Genie+ selections, like MaxPass...PLEASE!!

I don’t see how they disable the app working outside the park. GPS is notoriously inaccurate. And requiring folks to allow location access in order to use G+ seems like a bad idea.