NEW VGF Building

[sethschroeder]

Just hold on until the new studios go up for sale.

Nah there is no reason to. Once the new resort goes on sale prices on resale will go down. Either because direct will be less money or because Disney will stop ROFR and demand will shift to direct when its that close. As long as you are fine waiting the next 6-9 months.

 

[Sandisw]

As a VGF1 owner, I would strongly be against this if DVC were to do this. To me, it would devalue my membership as I bought and planned based upon assumptions of what was available and the total points at the resort. To now have over twice as many people trying to get the original studios (if they are less points, as you propose), would have a very negative impact to me as a member. If they wanted to do this, then the proper thing to do would be to create a separate condo association.

I think that if DVC prices the studios differently, there is going to be a bit of a revolt among VGF1 owners. Also, I do want to know under what circumstances DVD can amend the original POS to add more points where it could impact the percentage ownership of the unit that I have (as discussed on the 2022 point chart thread). DVD has to tread carefully here to respect the rights of the owners in the existing condo association.

I have not found anything in the POS for the resorts I own that prevents them from expanding the resort.

So, I don’t think what they are doing would be a violation of the contract. It was like when they added the treehouses to SSR.

I personally don’t believe the studios will be different points at the née building vs the old for the point charts

I can seem them deciding they are more for the purpose of points to sell, so they can add to the total of the resort to reallocate.

But I’m thinking there will be SV and LV at both building that you book for the same points per night.

 

[Paul Stupin]

so why wouldn’t those same reasons make a bigger difference in cash stays?

I think the GF isn't booked as much in cash stays because it has a reputation as being expensive and not worth the money. Why? Because it is!

But I think DVC buyers do not fall into that same category. This is an emotional purchase (not an investment!) and I think the GF provides members with a greater sense of "buying into the magic." And, no matter what the point price, DVC will position this as an affordable way to finally experience the luxury (through studios), and they'll crunch the numbers in such a way to prove it. But they will not start selling this new building at a 2-3 year old price point established for the Riviera, a resort that is liked by many, but disliked by just as many or more.

The GF is classic, wondrous WDW, as we'll all re-learn in the marketing, and, just like Disneyland Tower, it'll be priced accordingly.

 

[MinnieB]

Is anyone else worried that the MF fees are going way up in the next few years? Adding new DVC capacity (with five fitting in a room) shifts more common costs to DVC owners and away from Disney. If the goal is to restore the hotel to its former glory and compete with the Four Seasons, that could entail a whole lot of common property expenditures...

 

[jjk0125]

When do you think we will see a rendering or model of the new Resort Studios?

 

[tidefan]

I have not found anything in the POS for the resorts I own that prevents them from expanding the resort.

So, I don’t think what they are doing would be a violation of the contract. It was like when they added the treehouses to SSR.

I personally don’t believe the studios will be different points at the née building vs the old for the point charts

I can seem them deciding they are more for the purpose of points to sell, so they can add to the total of the resort to reallocate.

But I’m thinking there will be SV and LV at both building that you book for the same points per night.

But, if they add more points to reallocate, they have to do so in a manner such that my percentage ownership interest in the resort stays the same. It’s going to be a fine line that they have to balance.

That’s why I’m surprised it’s not a different condo association. It would make things much cleaner.

 

[Days In the Sun]

This is the correct answer IMO. DVC has never opened a new resort at a significant premium to the other resorts it is selling at the same time. The adjustments are always in the point chart. I strongly believe VGF will go on sale for right around the same price as RIV (now whatever that price is when VGF2 goes live is unknown). Would not shock me though if they made the new studios 10% more in points than the older VGF studios. Have some sales pitch about how they are larger etc. You can back into the $220ish price per point that way while still offering the points at $200ish.

We bought BLT pre-opening when it was at $112. AKV and SSR were not sold out and both were going for $104. Shortly after opening, BLT went to $120. BLT point charts were also much higher than AKV and significantly higher than SSR.

I would like to believe they have less room to increase studio point costs since it needs to work with the rest of the association. Emphasis on "would like to believe".

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

But, if they add more points to reallocate, they have to do so in a manner such that my percentage ownership interest in the resort stays the same. It’s going to be a fine line that they have to balance.

That’s why I’m surprised it’s not a different condo association. It would make things much cleaner.

You are deeded an undivided interest of a certain percentage of a certain unit. That percentage is symbolized by a certain number of points. So you own a part of an already declared unit. It's part of the question of DVC reallocating across units but nothing preventing adding more units. You don't have a fixed percentage of the resort, it's of a unit.

 

[Nabas]

We bought BLT pre-opening when it was at $112. AKV and SSR were not sold out and both were going for $104. Shortly after opening, BLT went to $120. BLT point charts were also much higher than AKV and significantly higher than SSR.

You make a great point but this time the situation might be different.

When BLT opened, it was the first Monorail Resort with a DVC. That’s significantly different than AKV or SSR, which require bus transportation everywhere. (Disney Springs is not a theme park. )

Disney has been advertising the Riviera as a premium DVC with access to two theme parks via the Skyliner. The three other Skyliner hotels (AOA, POP, and CBR) have seen their rack rates increase by 20% since the Skyliner opened. Indeed, CBR went from the least expensive to the most expensive Moderate Resort.

Disney really degrades how it has positioned the Riviera (and the Skyliner) if VGF2 is sold for a premium over RIV.

I’m sure Disney will raise the price of VGF2 if its sales outpace RIV, but I am beginning to suspect they might want to price them similarly to start.

 

[stwaldman]

You make a great point but this time the situation might be different.

When BLT opened, it was the first Monorail Resort with a DVC. That’s significantly different than AKV or SSR, which require bus transportation everywhere. (Disney Springs is not a theme park. )

Disney has been advertising the Riviera as a premium DVC with access to two theme parks via the Skyliner. The three other Skyliner hotels (AOA, POP, and CBR) have seen their rack rates increase by 20% since the Skyliner opened. Indeed, CBR went from the least expensive to the most expensive Moderate Resort.

Disney really degrades how it has positioned the Riviera (and the Skyliner) if VGF2 is sold for a premium over RIV.

I’m sure Disney will raise the price of VGF2 if its sales outpace RIV, but I am beginning to suspect they might want to price them similarly to start.

honest question, how much has that rack rate increase coincided with the huge ticket offer that's been around for several months now? Not sure if that's easily trackable.

 

[Bjaiken77]

As a VGF1 owner, I would strongly be against this if DVC were to do this. To me, it would devalue my membership as I bought and planned based upon assumptions of what was available and the total points at the resort. To now have over twice as many people trying to get the original studios (if they are less points, as you propose), would have a very negative impact

I agree with this 100%. People plan based on the information you provide them. Again, I feel this is on Disney and their lack of transparency.

I feel the same way about the perks. Don’t market them so heavily if you plan to yank them away. You may be able to do it legally, just like you may be able to sell more points into VGF1, but you’re screwing the paying members.

 

[Sandisw]

But, if they add more points to reallocate, they have to do so in a manner such that my percentage ownership interest in the resort stays the same. It’s going to be a fine line that they have to balance.

That’s why I’m surprised it’s not a different condo association. It would make things much cleaner.

Your percentage is based on unit. That never changes. Points just represent that in terms of the unit.

For example, we could both own 150 points, but if your 150 come from a unit with 15,000 points...and units can consist of more than one room..they are not the same..but my 150 come from a unit with 30,000 points,,,, our percentage on the deed will look different.

But, your 150 would also get you at least x number of nights in each room type and that is outlined in the membership agreement.

I have seen nothing that prevents them from adding to the condo by declaring more rooms and adjust points that way across the resort.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

How far in advance does Disney start promoting their new resorts? Shouldn’t we have some info on the types of rooms offered before they release the points chart?

 

[hhisc16]

Your percentage is based on unit. That never changes. Points just represent that in terms of the unit.

For example, we could both own 150 points, but if your 150 come from a unit with 15,000 points...and units can consist of more than one room..they are not the same..but my 150 come from a unit with 30,000 points,,,, our percentage on the deed will look different.

But, your 150 would also get you at least x number of nights in each room type and that is outlined in the membership agreement.

I have seen nothing that prevents them from adding to the condo by declaring more rooms and adjust points that way across the resort.

So on paper, the VGF is basically only adding more units to the condo association?

 

[Sandisw]

How far in advance does Disney start promoting their new resorts? Shouldn’t we have some info on the types of rooms offered before they release the points chart?

I do not think they need to do that. My assumption is they will determine the total points for sale for the 200 studios and then use those totals, along with what is already declared for the association and come up with a new 2022 point chart that reflects that.

We know they are all studios that sleep 5, which aligns with the current studios in terms of occupancy.

 

[Sandisw]

So on paper, the VGF is basically only adding more units to the condo association?

Based on what was shared, that is my take. I see this as similar to when they added the treehouses to SSR.

If they wanted it to be something else, they could have done what they did with CCV and made it a new resort with its own association, separate from BRV.

Since they didn’t, it leads me to believe they have decided to expand the current resort from what it has to now include another 200 rooms.

 

[davidl81]

We bought BLT pre-opening when it was at $112. AKV and SSR were not sold out and both were going for $104. Shortly after opening, BLT went to $120. BLT point charts were also much higher than AKV and significantly higher than SSR.

I would like to believe they have less room to increase studio point costs since it needs to work with the rest of the association. Emphasis on "would like to believe".

In this case BLT was selling 7.6% more than AKV/SSR when it went on sale. That same percentage would put VGF at $216 if RIV is at $201 when it goes on sale. I could see that price point, but I do not see the $255ish right out of the gate on VGF. Now if VGF presales very well in the $216 range (or whatever it opens at), I would fully expect them to raise prices very quickly. Everything being equal the very best prices direct that we will see in VGF will be whatever is offered to members as a pre-sale. We will just have to wait till likely this winter/early 2022 to find out what those prices are.

 

[tidefan]

You are deeded an undivided interest of a certain percentage of a certain unit. That percentage is symbolized by a certain number of points. So you own a part of an already declared unit. It's part of the question of DVC reallocating across units but nothing preventing adding more units. You don't have a fixed percentage of the resort, it's of a unit.

Correct, but then if my say 100 points are more of a percent of a unit than a new VGF2 purchaser whose 100 points owns less of their unit, is there not an issue?

According to what you are saying then, there is nothing holding DVD back from basically adding to whatever condo associations they already have, create a boatload of new points, then reallocate them across the resort.

(NOTE: This is a hypothetical)... What will happen if say DVD takes over the Inn side of the Boardwalk, converts them all to studios, adds them to the original condo association, and then charges 30 points a night for them. Well, after a year, they see people are trying to book the "cheaper" original Boardwalk views, so "in interest of the membership", they reallocate points by lowering the inflated BVW2 studios by increasing the point amounts of the BVW1 units? This is a slippery slope and we'll have to see how it plays out.

 

[Marionnette]

Correct, but then if my say 100 points are more of a percent of a unit than a new VGF2 purchaser whose 100 points owns less of their unit, is there not an issue?

According to what you are saying then, there is nothing holding DVD back from basically adding to whatever condo associations they already have, create a boatload of new points, then reallocate them across the resort.

(NOTE: This is a hypothetical)... What will happen if say DVD takes over the Inn side of the Boardwalk, converts them all to studios, adds them to the original condo association, and then charges 30 points a night for them. Well, after a year, they see people are trying to book the "cheaper" original Boardwalk views, so "in interest of the membership", they reallocate points by lowering the inflated BVW2 studios by increasing the point amounts of the BVW1 units? This is a slippery slope and we'll have to see how it plays out.

Didn't they effectively do just the reverse shortly after they added the THVs to SSR? They raised the point requirements for THVs and lowered the 2BR points. So, there is precedent.

 

[havoc315]

can you help me out where do you find these rates on Hotwire? I just tried looking and it gave me no Grand Floridan? Am I doing something wrong? I have never used Hotwire before so I’m quite sure I am. I entered Grand Floridan and it doesn’t even tell me the name of the hotels they are showing. If they are that much cheaper I would like to book a stay there

https://www.hotwire.com/hotels/details/MzEzNTg4NzUxODQ6MzIxMTc1MTY2OTQzOQ--?vt.GHD20=1
Mid July -- Grand Floridian, 40% off, significantly better than the official Disney 25% discount. (I've seen discounts as big as 55% on Grand Floridian in the past).