Should churches change security in wake of recent events?

[usnuzuloose]

I put my trust into one person and one person only

 

[disykat]

Probably about 15+ years ago we started trying to make sure at least one usher stays in the foyer during services to sort of keep an eye on things and have one eye down the hall towards the nursery. They aren't security really, more of someone who is staying somewhat aware. Since all the doors are wide open, it only makes sense. They can also welcome latecomers and help people who may be coming out of the service looking for a bathroom and be available for nursery emergencies. I was on church council at the time we started this and had kids that sometimes used the nursery. I always felt like they were pretty vulnerable for "surprise visitors" or even supervision emergencies down the hall from where everyone else was before we started having someone looking out.

 

[katie01]

Maybe they are OK with accepting that it is life.
Not sure why you think they need to change things so you feel safe. If you aren't OK with it then you do something about it.

You are free to find a church that meets your security requirements. You are even free to buy your own bullet proof vests for your family to wear.

Sounds good

 

[wgeo]

I'm not sure if we can or should do something, but I at least wish we could talk about it in this country without everyone moving to predetermined political sides.

People reference that there is risk in every day life - for example car accidents. This is very true, so currently car makers are constantly trying to increase the safety of the vehicles with air bags etc. - seat belt use has become mandatory over the last few decades. Does it mean people don't die in car accidents? No, but it has helped reduce them.

So can't we at least talk about doing something to help reduce some of the problems? Nothing will eliminate all gun deaths of course, and there is always risk in life, but we try to mitigate risk in other areas, I'm frustrated that we can't discuss eliminating risk in this area because it becomes too political.

 

[maxiesmom]

No. What needs to be fixed is on the other end of the equation, imho.

 

[katie01]

I'm not sure if we can or should do something, but I at least wish we could talk about it in this country without everyone moving to predetermined political sides.

People reference that there is risk in every day life - for example car accidents. This is very true, so currently car makers are constantly trying to increase the safety of the vehicles with air bags etc. - seat belt use has become mandatory over the last few decades. Does it mean people don't die in car accidents? No, but it has helped reduce them.

So can't we at least talk about doing something to help reduce some of the problems? Nothing will eliminate all gun deaths of course, and there is always risk in life, but we try to mitigate risk in other areas, I'm frustrated that we can't discuss eliminating risk in this area because it becomes too political.

I was just going to say the exact same thing about reducing risk of driving through laws, seat belts, and car seats. I accept there is risk in everything and we are all going to die someday. I can't accept saying, "Nah, I probably won't be shot, so I don't want to make changes or put extra security measures in place"

 

[wgeo]

As for specifically increasing security measures in church - I think that would be very hard to do. Churches (at least the ones I have attended) are very open and inclusive in nature -and the idea of "screening" people on their way in does not sit well. We want everyone to feel welcome, and locked doors, security guards and metal detectors don't exactly scream "welcome".

 

[bcla]

Sounds good

You never know what happens. There was that one accidental shooting at a church one time, and it was one parishioner showing a handgun to another, who was thinking of buying it. Apparently the prospective seller did something incredibly stupid, which was drop the magazine without clearing the chamber and the pastor's daughter died after the trigger was pulled. There was a story about a firearms instructor who was teaching a gun safety class at a church and ended up shooting the pastor. His mistake was that he didn't remember that he no longer had the "inert" demonstration handgun and that he had replaced it with a real gun.

 

[bcla]

As for specifically increasing security measures in church - I think that would be very hard to do. Churches (at least the ones I have attended) are very open and inclusive in nature -and the idea of "screening" people on their way in does not sit well. We want everyone to feel welcome, and locked doors, security guards and metal detectors don't exactly scream "welcome".

It's not technically hard, but yeah it seems kind of unwelcoming. But it's been done before when there have been high profile visitors like the US President. Of course in that case he's also surrounded by Secret Service agents.

http://npbc.blog.palmbeachpost.com/...roger-dean-stadium-this-year-metal-detectors/

Attendees passed through metal detectors to gain entrance to Easter Sunday service last year at The Episcopal Church of Bethesda-by-the-Sea when Donald Trump and his family attended last March. Melanie Bell / Daily News File Photo​

 

[wgeo]

It's not technically hard, but yeah it seems kind of unwelcoming. But it's been done before when there have been high profile visitors like the US President. Of course in that case he's also surrounded by Secret Service agents.

http://npbc.blog.palmbeachpost.com/...roger-dean-stadium-this-year-metal-detectors/

Attendees passed through metal detectors to gain entrance to Easter Sunday service last year at The Episcopal Church of Bethesda-by-the-Sea when Donald Trump and his family attended last March. Melanie Bell / Daily News File Photo​

It may not be technically "hard" but it is very expensive and manpower heavy. Can't imagine many churches that could bear the expense of that - especially after the reduction in giving due to the reduced attendance, because I am quite sure many people would be very unhappy if their church added in these types of measures for a regular Sunday service.

 

[Annadesu]

Honestly, the whole "gun debate" ended for me once Sandy Hook happened. If people are willing to let 20 children get shot and killed, and still won't make drastic changes to our gun laws, then nothing will ever be done about it on a government level.

So yeah, I can see why churches, and other public buildings, would want to try and up their security measures. More and more people are carrying weapons with them on a daily basis, too (like pocket knives, pepper spray, and even guns in some states). Will it stop every person with ill will? No. But it might help stop a few of them, or atleast lower the death toll.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Katie... Yes, this is all just so upsetting and heartbreaking!!!!
My heart and thoughts and prayers go out to anyone and everyone affected by acts of violence.

In general, yes, I do feel that it is reasonable, or even recommended and oblegated, that any prospect of increased danger/risk be met with some increased concern and security/safety measures. If there are those who are not concerned with security at all, then that is how they feel... and you will not change that. I would question how they could justify that??? But, I wouldn't try to change other's feelings/viewpoints.

Some people want to take the wrong approach, thinking that this will increase security, when in all reality, it just won't.

I do think it seems that you are posting from a very emotional and distraught place.

You want somebody to 'do something'.
But, WHAT?????
It is true that there is no such thing as complete safety or freedom from evil.
Acknowledging this is not necessarily a cop-out or a justification. It is acknowledging a basic truth, and can be the beginning of a further understanding.

We ALL wish somebody could 'do something'.
IMHO, there is nothing that any person, any political party, or any amount of wishful thinking, can do to change the fact that that there is evil and mentally 'affected' individuals in this world.
And, the hatred and evil do not always come from the side/place/viewpoint that we think it will.

Perhaps you will feel better and more positive about 'doing something' if you, personally, try to do something.
Participate in a church meeting about how you can find options and ways to protect your congregation.
Organize a neighborhood or school-zone watch and safety initiative.
Things like this can make one feel more secure and empowered.

HUGS!

 

[bcla]

It may not be technically "hard" but it is very expensive and manpower heavy. Can't imagine many churches that could bear the expense of that - especially after the reduction in giving due to the reduced attendance, because I am quite sure many people would be very unhappy if their church added in these types of measures for a regular Sunday service.

A megachurch could probably afford it, and even justify it if there are any specific threats made. I've actually heard of such churches hiring armed security and even off-duty police in uniform like you'd see at concerts, sporting events, or nightclubs. There are a lot of places of worship that deal with specific threats made to the safety of their worshipers. I don't really imagine that a small church with 50 people is going to be able to afford it though.

 

[katie01]

Katie... Yes, this is all just so upsetting and heartbreaking!!!!
My heart and thoughts and prayers go out to anyone and everyone affected by acts of violence.

I do think it seems that you are posting from a very emotional and distraught place.

You want somebody to 'do something'.
But, WHAT?????
It is true that there is no such thing as complete safety or freedom from evil.
Acknowledging this is not necessarily a cop-out or a justification. It is acknowledging a basic truth, and can be the beginning of a further understanding.

We ALL wish somebody could 'do something'.
IMHO, there is nothing that any person, any political party, or any amount of wishful thinking, can do to change the fact that that there is evil and mentally 'affected' individuals in this world.
And, the hatred and evil do not always come from the side/place/viewpoint that we think it will.

Perhaps you will feel better and more positive about 'doing something' if you, personally, try to do something.
Participate in a church meeting about how you can find options and ways to protect your congregation.
Organize a neighborhood or school-zone watch and safety initiative.
Things like this can make one feel more secure and empowered.

HUGS!

Thank you for understanding, yes, I do feel emotional about it. And I absolutely want to do something to help, which, along with venting my sadness, was the purpose of my post. I am definitely trying to figure out if there are safety measures I can suggest. I feel like our schools are doing a better job, but nothing has been put in place at our church. Again, thank you for your reply and understanding

 

[tarheelmjfan]

It may not be technically "hard" but it is very expensive and manpower heavy. Can't imagine many churches that could bear the expense of that - especially after the reduction in giving due to the reduced attendance, because I am quite sure many people would be very unhappy if their church added in these types of measures for a regular Sunday service.

I would have no problem with going through a metal detector at a church. I can't imagine why anyone would have a problem with that. How could protecting their parishioners & guests be unwelcoming?

 

[Wishing on a star]

I do understand!
You are NOT alone....

(And, I did just add a few additional words/comments to my post.)

 

[katie01]

I would have no problem with going through a metal detector at a church. I can't imagine why anyone would have a problem with that.

It wouldn't bother me either. Our church is large and growing too, we are not seeing reduced attendance in our area

 

[Hikergirl]

Thank you for understanding, yes, I do feel emotional about it. And I absolutely want to do something to help, which, along with venting my sadness, was the purpose of my post. I am definitely trying to figure out if there are safety measures I can suggest. I feel like our schools are doing a better job, but nothing has been put in place at our church. Again, thank you for your reply and understanding

I don't know what the schools where you are are doing but here the only thing they do is scan a non-students ID and keep the door locked.
That really isn't going to stop a student coming in to the school with a bag of weapons and shooting people.
It isn't even going to keep a person coming in with weapons, I'm sure if they are willing to shoot and kill people it isn't going to matter to them that their ID was scanned. It is just security theater.
I think churches can and should decide on their own what they are willing to do, I do not believe anything (for them) should be legislated.
I feel as a citizen in a free country you are allowed to come and go as you please so that includes finding a place where you feel safe, or where you feel they are meeting your requirements for keeping you safe.

 

[wgeo]

I would have no problem with going through a metal detector at a church. I can't imagine why anyone would have a problem with that. How could protecting their parishioners & guests be unwelcoming?

Personally it wouldn't bother me in the least. However, I have experience with lots of church members, and I know many that would be upset. Do you know how many would have to be pulled aside because of their walkers/wheel chairs/metal implants due to surgeries? Have you seen how upset people get about going through security at the airport? Again, I would gladly walk through - but in large groups of people there will be many who complain, and many who use it as an excuse to quit coming to church.

There are church attenders who are there every Sunday no matter what. Then you have a very large group that come to church when it is conveinent for them. If it's raining to hard, they don't come. If it's snowing too bad, they don't come. If it's the first super nice day out after a long winter, they don't come.

Now perhaps, the increased safety would increase other people's willingness to come to church as it is a safer place, but I'd be surprised if that happened in real life.

 

[Realfoodfans]

Saddened again by this news. Thoughts and prayers go to all affected.
On our recent trip we overheard a guy telling others there is no way he would ever visit Disneyland Paris as the French and English have no control over the terrorists. In our eyes anyone who causes death - by gun, car, knife, bomb is a under that same "umbrella".