The Running Thread - 2018

[kleph]

Hey guys, I have a question about VO2max: what is it exactly?

it is a measure of how much oxygen your body can process during physical activity. https://www.runnersworld.com/vo2-max

VO2 is a key measure for elite athletes, particularly folks doing distances up to about a mile. Your body is more efficient producing energy aerobically (with oxygen) than anaerobically (without oxygen). People with higher VO2 max are able to get more oxygen to their muscles during physical activity and, in turn, have an edge on those whose "max" is less.

To get a real VO2 max test, you have to get hooked up to a breathing apparatus and run on a treadmill. The watch measure is an approximation. For regular runners that's probably enough as it's another barometer of general fitness. Your heart rate is probably a better indicator of exertion during individual workouts.

This said, as a distance runner, it is worth understanding the difference between aerobic and anaerobic physical activity. Handling these correctly can be the difference between a PR marathon and a DNF. This article has a very good explanation why. https://runnersconnect.net/aerobic-vs-anaerobic-training/

 

[DopeyBadger]

Hey guys, I have a question about VO2max: what is it exactly?

Apparently Health, through my iPhone or Apple Watch, has been tracking it since September and I've never noticed it until it popped up today. Since September it's been going up on random run days. I guess I missed reading about this new Apple feature.

My strength trainer gives me a number every six months when we look at my heart rate range for running but I really don't pay any attention to it. Health's number in September is almost exactly what she gave me then. I really hope going up is a good thing! I'm staying in my heart rate range for runs.

Eureka! Quintessential Running Post!

 

[TinkerBellLiz]

it is a measure of how much oxygen your body can process during physical activity. https://www.runnersworld.com/vo2-max

VO2 is a key measure for elite athletes, particularly folks doing distances up to about a mile. Your body is more efficient producing energy aerobically (with oxygen) than anaerobically (without oxygen). People with higher VO2 max are able to get more oxygen to their muscles during physical activity and, in turn, have an edge on those whose "max" is less.

To get a real VO2 max test, you have to get hooked up to a breathing apparatus and run on a treadmill. The watch measure is an approximation. For regular runners that's probably enough as it's another barometer of general fitness. Your heart rate is probably a better indicator of exertion during individual workouts.

This said, as a distance runner, it is worth understanding the difference between aerobic and anaerobic physical activity. Handling these correctly can be the difference between a PR marathon and a DNF. This article has a very good explanation why. https://runnersconnect.net/aerobic-vs-anaerobic-training/

Eureka! Quintessential Running Post!

Thanks to you both although @DopeyBadger that post makes my head hurt! No wonder my trainer uses percentages of my max heart rate.

It seems VO2max numbers increasing is a good thing. Seeing another indicator of training and exercise paying off!

 

[JulieODC]

Question. The princess half will be my first. I’m not going for time, I want to take in the whole experience with the characters and entertainment along the way. However, since I’ve been training I want to see how I’d do if I raced for time. There’s a race that looks interesting to me mid-May. Is that enough time to do a quick training routine and go for time? It’s about 8 to 10 weeks.

Yes - definitely! I did PHM last year and a few weeks later registered for Tink, which was in May. It was a perfect amount of time to rest a bit, and then restart training.

Which half are you considering?

 

[xjillianpaige]

Yes - definitely! I did PHM last year and a few weeks later registered for Tink, which was in May. It was a perfect amount of time to rest a bit, and then restart training.

Which half are you considering?

Thanks! I’m looking at the Martha’s Vineyard Half!

 

[xjillianpaige]

Yes. Since Princess is going to be a moderate effort, your body should be in pretty good shape afterwards. If it was me, I would run easy the first week or so after Princess and then jump back into your half training plan--if you felt good, you could do the last X weeks of your plan, where X is the number of weeks left to the May race.

I'm running the Princess Half as a training run then running the Dark Side Half for time on 4/22. You should be fine. I'd do as jmasgat said and continue on with your plan again from however many weeks you are out from the half in May.

Thank you both! I’m looking into some options for where to stay and then going to register! I’m excited!

 

[TinkerBellLiz]

Eureka! Quintessential Running Post!

I got up this morning and made my own spreadsheet. It's reassuring that I don't have an unrealistic goal! I do have to thank you for providing the science to DH on why we need to SLOW THE HECK DOWN on our long runs.

Which leads to another question: When you are running multiple races back to back, do you choose one race (slacking on the others) to go all out or try to run each race at your best pace?

Again thanks for all the insight!

 

[DopeyBadger]

Thanks to you both although @DopeyBadger that post makes my head hurt! No wonder my trainer uses percentages of my max heart rate.

Happy to help! And please let me know if you have any additional questions about the "Eureka" post that could help you understand it further. Percent max HR can be a good tool in the tool box of evaluating training. I also like to use "Percent Heart Rate Reserve" which takes into account your resting HR in addition to max HR.

It seems VO2max numbers increasing is a good thing. Seeing another indicator of training and exercise paying off!

Yes, an increase in VO2max is unequivocally a good thing related to race performance.

I got up this morning and made my own spreadsheet. It's reassuring that I don't have an unrealistic goal! I do have to thank you for providing the science to DH on why we need to SLOW THE HECK DOWN on our long runs.

The key to remember is that even what we all would consider a short race distance, the 5k, is still 80% endurance and 20% speed. So slowing down in training will pay dividends across all of the race distances that are most common to hobby runners like us.

When you are running multiple races back to back, do you choose one race (slacking on the others) to go all out or try to run each race at your best pace?

For me personally, I choose to race at full effort in all multiple races. In a multiple race situation, one thing I'm really good at is recovering quickly from a previous event. This gives me the ability to stack multiple hard efforts back to back. I also accomplish this by making my training much tougher than the actual race experience.

However, in most cases where someone wants to give a full effort in one of the races but not the others, I usually recommend that person maintain their easy or long run pace (M Tempo + 2 min for run/walk and M Tempo + 9% for continuous) for the non-full effort events. This way they're doing a pace that is consistent with training, but is still slower than a race effort. It will certainly take a bit away from a true full effort performance on the subsequent race, but far less of an impact then racing full out for previous races.

I will say in neither of these cases is this something you need to practice. I don't run multiple hard days in a row in training to simulate racing multiple hard days in a row. I train with multiple easy/off days between hard bouts allowing my body to adapt and thrive because of the training, and not just survive the training. So I do recommend running on tired legs in training, but this can be accomplished with just easy days to carry over fatigue.

 

[baxter24]

@camaker hopefully that Wolfpack victory helped cheer you up yesterday!

 

[gjramsey]

Hot Chocolate 15k race report - You would hope that a race that provides Hot Chocolate at the end, the temps would co-operate. No such luck today. The forecast yesterday said the rain would be gone, the front would come through, and temps at the start of the race would be in the low 50s. Woke up to temps in the low 60s and humid/foggy and the front still hours away. Rats.

Got to the race site around 6:15 to park fairly close to the start/finish line area, which was around Houston City hall and the park in front of it. The Cypress Running Club pic was scheduled for 6:45. The 5k race started at 7:15, so watched the start of that race, and saw the first couple of the finishers with times around 18 minutes.

The 15K started at 7:50, and I worked my up to near the 7:30 and 8:00 minute pacers. I originally thought I would go out and eat as much chocolate on the course as I could, but soon after the start, realized there were not many oldish guys up front, so lets get racey....

I did grab chocolate at the first two aid stations, chocolate chips first, and M&Ms at the second. The race course was mostly along the usually Allen Parkway/Memorial Drive route that a lot of races in the downtown Houston area uses. Since they needed to get the race to 9.3 miles, they added a couple short out and backs along the way.

I ended up finishing in 1:10:28, and ended up 29/1340 overall, 16/345 males, and 2/33 in age group. 3 weeks post Dopey, I was very pleased with the race. I have mostly been doing recovery runs, and just did a little speed work this past week.

Post race has a nice little bowl of Hot Chocolate, melted Chocolate with a banana, pretzel, rice crispy treat and shortbread cookies to dip with. Good stuff, but needed to be cooler to really enjoy!

 

[JulieODC]

Thanks! I’m looking at the Martha’s Vineyard Half!

Dooooooo it!

 

[kleph]

Thanks to you both although @DopeyBadger that post makes my head hurt! No wonder my trainer uses percentages of my max heart rate.

It seems VO2max numbers increasing is a good thing. Seeing another indicator of training and exercise paying off!

no problem.

as i mentioned, the watch number is going to be an approximation, so take it with a grain of salt. as a general rule of thumb you should be between 30 and 60 (my garmin says mine is 46). in comparison, legendary runner steve prefontaine had an 84.4 VO2 max while professional cyclists can get into the 90s. http://www.topendsports.com/testing/records/vo2max.htm

 

[Waiting2goback]

Fun Friday QOTD: Since we have a lot of cookie talk this week, lets stay on a food topic. You are allowed to eat only one snack from the parks, but you are allowed to eat it as many times as you want. What do you choose?

ATTQOTD: As much as I love the Mickey bar and ice cream sandwich, I am all about the cinnamon rolls from Gastons Tavern. I cant wait to be in the parks in April and eat one every time I step into the Magic Kingdom!

If I had to pick a snack that's only in the parks, it's a Mickey Bar.

ATTQOTD: Being somewhat frugal-even at Disney-- I tend not to spend money on snacks...or food....or alcohol. But it would appear that both Dole Whips and School Bread are exceptions to that rule, since I ate both on the last trip, and are not something that I can get at home. I'm sure there are others I would happily eat--or drink--if money and calories were no object!

As for the other foods mentioned.....yes for raisins, bananas, et al. And as for cookies, I have finally finished off a recent spur of the moment make......Salted Chocolate Chunk Shortbread. All sorts of butter and TJ's 70% dark chocolate. Non, je ne regrette rien.

I'm with you. I don't snack a lot at Disney. I love Disney but don't like being ripped off. So I go to be there but rarely buy anything but my park tickets and food. I got one Mickey Bar during marathon weekend as a treat.

 

[LSUlakes]

After looking at a few recipes, I saw one that mentioned lamb! It has been forever since I cooked some, so of course I went and picked up a leg of lamb. So many good spices and herbs! Cooked to a internal temp of 150 and delicious!!! I also picked up some Brussels sprouts from our farmers market. DW's immediate response once I told her I picked some up was "I'm not eating that!". I told her just like we encourage DD to try something new, so did she. So i cut them in half, then added a little olive oil, salt, and pepper and roasted them in the oven. DW tried and even enjoyed them, as did I. We were both surprised. lol

 

[LSUlakes]

QOTD: How do you find out about races? Word of mouth, a website, race expos, ect??

ATTQOTD: Most of the races I register for I find on www.runningintheusa.com, and my second source is work of mouth. The word of mouth is usually a follow up to a race i saw on the website that I have interest in to see if its a good race. Good as in the course being accurately measured or decent finish festival. Few things make me as angry as running a 5k that measure 2.9 Mi!

 

[ZellyB]

With all the low carb talk, I'm curious if anyone has tried a ketogenic diet while running/working out consistently? My husband is a competitive cyclist and thinks that I'm crazy for considering a keto diet while training for the Princess Half, or for considering keto at all. He claims I'll have no energy and it will decrease my performance during running, soccer etc. Thoughts or experience?

We've done keto while running and training and ran a marathon while on keto. As others have said, it takes some time to adapt. We don't do strict keto currently, but have maintained an overall low carb approach to eating.

QOTD: How do you find out about races? Word of mouth, a website, race expos, ect??

ATTQOTD: Most of the races I register for I find on www.runningintheusa.com, and my second source is work of mouth. The word of mouth is usually a follow up to a race i saw on the website that I have interest in to see if its a good race. Good as in the course being accurately measured or decent finish festival. Few things make me as angry as running a 5k that measure 2.9 Mi!

Word of mouth primarily. We mostly just run local races with the exception of Disney and this year, Chicago.

@camaker hope you are feeling better soon and back to running.

 

[ZellyB]

@LSUlakes a couple of races to add these are for both me and @Chris-Mo

Not sure on these goals. I'm on a freshly-minted @DopeyBadger training plan, so he might disagree with my ideas.

March
17 - Zellyb - Shamrox 15K (1:30:xx / N/A)
17- Chris-Mo - Shamrox 15k (1:30:xx/N/A)

October
07 - Zellyb - Chicago Marathon (Sub 5:00/N/A)
07- Chris-Mo - Chicago Marathon (Sub 5:00/N/A)

Probably doing a half in April, but haven't registered yet, so I'll hold off on posting that one.

 

[baxter24]

ATTQOTD: I have heard about most races while attending the expos of a race I am about to run or word of mouth. I am also on a lot of different races email list and include a link to another race.

Speaking of races, @LSUlakes, can you add the following race for me?

2/3 - Krispy Kreme Challenge!
No time goal but my husband and I do plan to eat at least four donuts. Ultimate goal is to not puke on the way back or at the finish line!

 

[JulieODC]

I have mainly done races I’ve known about through local charities, or following local running pages and groups. I also really like runningintheusa.com.

I usually follow race pages on fB, and then get suggestions for other nearby race pages to like too - so have found a few that way too.

 

[MissLiss279]

ATTQOTD: All of the above, except maybe races advertising at expos. I used the www.runningintheusa.com website a few times when I was looking for races at different times of year and/or certain locations. Word of mouth (positive peer pressure) has gotten me to sign up for a few. My spring marathon, I heard about from the marathon maniac newsletter. I thought it was at a good time of year, was within driving distance, and it had several good reviews (plus I got a $10 discount).