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The Running Thread - 2019

ATTQOTD:

1. Without my watch. I don't "need" headphones (ran a marathon without them), but I enjoy catching up on podcasts during a run- it's almost like multitasking.
2. 20,000 people! I don't like small races- they seem too intimidating.
3. Cotton t shirt. I feel like the effects (blisters) on my feet would last much longer.
4. -10F... Easier to add layers ;)
5. Ideally neither... but wind is my absolute least favorite, so I guess humidity.
 
QOTD: Would you rather run...
1. Without a watch or without music/podcasts?
2. A race with 20 people or 20,000 people?
3. In a cotton tshirt or cotton socks?
4. In 110F or -10F temperatures?
5. In high humidity or high winds?

1. Without music since I don't run with headphones
2. 20,000 people because, with only 20, you would never see anyone after the start (what's the purpose of a race if not for the people... okay, okay, maybe also for a PoT for rD races)
3. Depends on the race distance: if short race, then cotton socks (very low chance of blisters), but for a long race, cotton shirt (I would just remove the shirt and throw it in the trash at some point)
4. 110°F, but I wouldn't last very long
5. If headwind, then high humidity (major headwind really saps my energy). If tailwind, then high winds of course.
 
Last edited:
QOTD: Would you rather run...
1. Without a watch or without music/podcasts?
2. A race with 20 people or 20,000 people?
3. In a cotton tshirt or cotton socks?
4. In 110F or -10F temperatures?
5. In high humidity or high winds?

ATTQOTD: Interesting questions! Here are my answers:
1. Definitely without music/podcasts. I run all my races headphone free and it wouldn't be a big stretch to extend that to training runs.
2. 20 people. I'm not a big crowds person and some of my favorite race experiences have been alone with my thoughts and the scenery during small capacity races.
3. I'm a very heavy sweater, so I'm going with cotton socks. A cotton shirt on my is going to start weighing me down and be absolutely miserable. I can tolerate some extra heat and moisture if it's limited to my feet.
4. 110F. Born, raised and live in the south. No cold weather for me. 110F is a lot closer to the heat I run in in the summer than -10F is to the cold I run in in the winter. I absolutely HATE being cold!
5. High winds. I'm sturdy enough that I can make headway in windy conditions and not be blown around like some of the more petite runners out there. I'd rather fight the winds than feel like I'm trying to run underwater and drink every breath!
 
I know we did something similar long ago, but how about a little round of "would you rather" for today's QOTD?

If anyone has been "lurking" or hasn't participated in the thread for a while, be sure to jump in today!

QOTD: Would you rather run...
1. Without a watch or without music/podcasts?
2. A race with 20 people or 20,000 people?
3. In a cotton tshirt or cotton socks?
4. In 110F or -10F temperatures?
5. In high humidity or high winds?
Love it!
(1) skip the music/podcasts. I only use them on a closed loop/track so this is not a burden to me
(2) 20,000. Finishing dead last is less likely here, and most of the bigger races seem to have fun distractions
(3) cotton is rotten, but I prefer chafing on my arms and sweat retention vs. blisters so I would go with a cotton shirt. Also, body glide helps my arms more than my feet.
(4) hard pass on both, but I would get closer to the -10F (I went out at 5F + wind, but only briefly as my eyeballs hurt, I cannot function over 80)
(5) wind.

These questions remind me I had considered buying ski goggles to run last winter, maybe they are on sale now :)
 


I think one thing I like to keep in mind is that I'm using exact numbers on an inexact and inaccurate system in practice. I open a pack of Egglands Best Eggs. One egg = 60 calories. But I know that not every egg is equal in size. Some are bigger than others. Some days I choose 4 bigger eggs from the package and some days 4 smaller eggs. Some packages are all small eggs and some are all large eggs. The 60 calories is based on a 50g egg, but I don't weigh the eggs prior to consumption. But when I account for eating 4 eggs, I say it's 240 calories no matter whether I ate the big ones or the small ones. It's the same throughout all my meals. I say breakfast is 800 calories every day. But I don't actually know that to be true. Only rather I've placed a number on it that seems to work out based on what happens in response by my body when I eat it.

Same goes for the burned calories from working out. Did my 80DO workout on 8/13/19 really burn 233 calories? Is Autumn correct that I have "after burn" effects from my 80DO workout such that the data my Garmin spits out based on my HR during the exercise isn't really all that useful? And even if there is/isn't "after burn", is it really appropriate in the first place to use HR based data on calorie burning from strength exercises?

All throughout the system, there are inaccuracies. But for me, I take note of what I eat, I work out, and then I see over the course of several weeks whether I feel healthier or faster. If not, I adjust.

A general rule of thumb that I've seen in many places is that a runner burns about 100 cal per mile. So for a marathon race, a runner might burn, say, 2600 - 3000 cal. Obviously there is some variation according to weight, fitness, conditions, etc.

Just taking a quick look at my calories burned based on Garmin HR data:

5.15 mi, 45 min, 135 HR, 604 calories: 117.3 cal/mi, 13.4 cal/min
15.12 mi, 120 min, 141 HR, 1496 calories: 98.9 cal/mi, 12.5 cal/min
3.93 mi, 35 min, 133 HR, 459 calories: 116.8 cal/mi, 13.1 cal/min
3.54 mi, 30 min, 139 HR, 421 calories: 118.9 cal/mi, 14.0 cal/min
6.26 mi, 55 min, 139 HR, 733 calories: 117.1 cal/mi, 13.3 cal/min
6.07 mi, 44 min, 149 HR, 628 calories: 103.5 cal/mi, 14.3 cal/min
3.06 mi, 20 min, 161 HR, 337 calories: 110.1 cal/mi, 16.9 cal/min

So I'm getting a range of 99-119 cal/mi and 12.5-16.9 cal/min. And I'm not seeing a trend for HR in either direction really. My marathons were 2276, 2440, 2568, 2055, 2900, and 2720 calories when my HR was active.

The calculator that I wrote for in-race calorie consumption uses the formula:

Total kcal burned = Body Weight (in kg) * Distance of race (in km)
**(Humphrey 2013) This is a general value and a specific value would require physiological testing.
Humphrey, L. [Hanson's Coaching Services]. (2013, Nov 23). Calculating Caloric Needs for Marathon- Updated 11/22/2013 . [Video File].

Are you saying that on a not unusual training day for you, you burn significantly more calories through exercise than a marathon? This seems amazing.

Or are you just using this as some type of benchmark that you can compare to from one day to the next to tell which day is a hard day vs easy day?

The example I used (2400 calories burned) was a number out of the air. Last week I burned (per my Garmin and TrainerRoad).

8/12/19 - M - OFF = 0
8/13/19 - T - 80DO-AAA [233 cal] + Spruce Knob (90 min; 94 TSS) [957 cal] = 1190 cal
8/14/19 - W - 55 min Easy (+Strides) Run [733 cal] = 733 cal
8/15/19 - R - Gibralter (105 min; 112 TSS) [1186 cal] + 30 min Brick Run at Easy [421 cal] = 1607 cal
8/16/19 - F - 80DO-Total Body Core [299 cal] + Mist (90 min; 108 TSS) [919 cal] = 1218 cal
8/17/19 - Sa - Longfellow (240 min; 180 TSS) [2300 cal] + 35 min Evening Run at Easy [459 cal] = 2759 cal
8/18/19 - Su - 120 min Long Run w/ FF [1496 cal] + 80DO-Cardio Flow [236 cal] = 1732 cal

Average workout cal burn per day = 1320 cal; per workout day = 1540 cal

Usually one has to have a deficit of 3500 cal/wk to lose a pound per week. You've got a deficit of 700 cal/wk according to these numbers. I can't argue with your empirical data of what has worked for you, but I'm wondering how this works out.

I wish I could have a deficit of 100 cal/day and actually lose a pound per week! I can hear my body fat laughing at this idea. :)

I think it very likely goes back to the inaccuracy of the data. Am I really at a deficit of 50 calories per day? Or is it merely that all of my inaccuracies in the system I've set up has led to a 1750 calorie deficit in a week? In the span of two weeks, just about a month ago, I lost 3 pounds. So if I were eating at 1700 calories, were my calculations actually off by 500 calories per day? If the 3500 cal/lb is true, then that must be the case. (3500*3 = 10500/21 = 500 cal/day deficit)

I also know on a daily basis and day of the week basis there is definite ebb and flow. I weigh myself the morning prior to a long hard workout and I weigh X. I weigh myself the next morning after the hard workout, but before the next one and I'll probably weigh X+3. Did I really gain 3 pounds? Because I know if I give it 2-3 days, the weight will go back down to X. It's more of my body's in the moment response to that last workout. But more important to me is whether I feel healthy and fast.
 
QOTD: Would you rather run...
1. Without a watch or without music/podcasts?
2. A race with 20 people or 20,000 people?
3. In a cotton tshirt or cotton socks?
4. In 110F or -10F temperatures?
5. In high humidity or high winds?

1. Without music/podcasts. If my run isn't on Strava did it even actually happen?
2. 20,000 runners. More people to chase and help set your pace.
3. Cotton shirt. The shirt can come off if needed.
4. -10, been there and have run in colder than that. Heat just kills me, mostly because we don't get enough of it in Minnesota for my body to really acclimate to it.
5. Wind. I'm not a fish and can't breath water, but I can get through the wind.
 
QOTD: Would you rather run...
1. Without a watch or without music/podcasts?
2. A race with 20 people or 20,000 people?
3. In a cotton tshirt or cotton socks?
4. In 110F or -10F temperatures?
5. In high humidity or high winds?

1. No watch. I don't do well without music to drown myself out.
2. 20,000 people as long as it is a long distance race. Not sure I'd like 20,000 runners in a 5k if I weren't towards the front of it.
3. Tough one. Cotton socks?
4. -10F for sure.
5. High humidity.
 


ATTQOTD: Would you rather run...
1. Without a watch - running's the only time I get to listen to music
2. A race with 20 people - I hate crowds
3. Cotton socks - I ran and worked out in them for years without issue
4. In 110F - ideally neither, but I'll always take heat over cold
5. In high humidity - I thrive in high humidity!
 
ATTQOTD:
1. Without music/podcasts. This would be no different than any run for me so easy choice.
2. 20k people. I like bigger races with crowds, you can find a decent pace more easily.
3. Cotton socks. Wouldn't be fun and probably get some blisters but more doable than being in a cotton shirt. You'd feel like you're wearing a lead vest by the end, especially if its in the summer.
4. -10F. Would suck for the first mile or so but would eventually be tolerable. 110F would just get worse and worse.
5. High winds.
 
1) no music, most of my trail miles are this way anyway. I have to listen for mountain bikers bombing downhill, even though hikers/runners have the right of way.
2)20,000 people, it looks less weird that I am not talking to people and withdrawn into my shell. Same reason loved living in NYC as an introvert, it doesn’t look weird that you are ignoring people, ‘cause everyone is.
3) draw-I would say cotton shirt, but I have been wearing my cotton “vert isn’t real” tank top a lot lately.
4)-10. Cold doesn’t stop me like heat does.
5) gonna go high winds. Have to deal with it anyway. It’s soul sucking, but I would rather have my sweat evaporation working.
 
I know we did something similar long ago, but how about a little round of "would you rather" for today's QOTD?

If anyone has been "lurking" or hasn't participated in the thread for a while, be sure to jump in today!

QOTD: Would you rather run...
1. Without a watch or without music/podcasts?
2. A race with 20 people or 20,000 people?
3. In a cotton tshirt or cotton socks?
4. In 110F or -10F temperatures?
5. In high humidity or high winds?


1. Without music, which is what I do anyway
2. 20,000 people. I like the energy and camaraderie of big events.
3. Cotton socks. My toes stand less chance of injury from cotton than my chest.
4. -10. I can bundle up all day. Can only take so much off, though living in Dubai I see much more heat than cold.
5. High winds. I HATE humidity.
 
QOTD: Would you rather run...
1. Without a watch or without music/podcasts?
2. A race with 20 people or 20,000 people?
3. In a cotton tshirt or cotton socks?
4. In 110F or -10F temperatures?
5. In high humidity or high winds?

ATTQOTD:

1. Without music or podcasts. Disney races are the only times that I don't run with podcasts because I enjoy the atmosphere.
2. 20,000 people. Way easier to get hyped for the distance with so many also participating.
3. Cotton socks
4. -10F temps. Never experienced it but I hate running in the heat. I don't even think I would go outside if it were that hot.
5. High humidity. Even though I hate the humidity, it won't make you lose your hat or knock you over like high winds will.
 
ATTQOTD: Would you rather run...
1. This is a tough one for me, but I think I am going without a watch. I already have issues with mental strength and I feel like without music/podcasts it would go downhill really fast!
2. 20,000 people as long as I don't have to start behind more than 2,000 of them. LOL. I like to have people around me during a race, because I can pace myself off of them and feed off their energy.
3. Cotton socks. I still accidentally do this sometimes by grabbing the wrong socks in my sleep haze when packing my gym bag.
4. 110F...I will pick hot weather over cold weather any day. That's why I am just fine with growing up and continuing to live in Alabama. We actually had "feels like" temps hire than this last week. LOL.
5. High humidity. Again, I already deal with this a lot during the summer. When I encounter wind, I feel like I am being blown away or getting absolutely nowhere...
 
ATTQOTD Would you rather run:

1) Without music/podcast - While I like listening to something while running I can easily run without doing so.

2) 20,000 people. While the parking for large races is extremely annoying everything else about a big rave is great.

3) Cotton socks. For the first year or so of running I just wore my normal cotton socks. I still occasionally do so now if my running socks are all dirty and I don’t have the time to wash them.

4) -10°F. Always easier to put in more layers.

5) High humidity. While I don’t like either choice I can deal with high humidity. High winds bring a lot more annoyances and actual dangers.
 
QOTD: Would you rather run...
1. Without a watch or without music/podcasts?
2. A race with 20 people or 20,000 people?
3. In a cotton tshirt or cotton socks?
4. In 110F or -10F temperatures?
5. In high humidity or high winds?
Okay fine, I'll bite...

1. Without music/podcasts. I feel like I would sabotage my run without being able to keep an eye on my pace.
2. 20,000 people. Better chance of not coming in last place. ;)
3. Socks?? I don't even know what my running socks are made out of. Haha.
4. 110F. I do this all the time. LOLOL.
5. They both suck. Like so bad. I can't even decide. I guess humidity.
 
QOTD: Would you rather run...
1. Without a watch or without music/podcasts?
2. A race with 20 people or 20,000 people?
3. In a cotton tshirt or cotton socks?
4. In 110F or -10F temperatures?
5. In high humidity or high winds?

1. Without music. I don’t run outside with music ever. Now if we’re talking inside/treadmill and tv/Netflix the watch is gone 100%
2. umm I haven’t ever run a race so I don’t honestly know
3. Socks I think
4. I had to convert to Celsius, and -10F if I had to but around here that temperature means the sidewalks are covered in ice so that’s not really plausible
5. Wind, hands down.
 
ATTQOTD:
1. Without music since I never do it anyway.
2. 20. I like smaller races. Disney and Peachtree are the only big races I do. I do enjoy the energy of the crowd, but like the neighborhood feel of the smaller races. I've done a marathon with about a 100 finishers. It's very lonely, but almost zen-like.
3. Toughest question. I guess cotton shirt. At least it's not likely to give me blisters. Opposite of @FFigawi
4. 110F. My theory is that in heat you reach misery equilibrium, where you can't get any more miserable. Cold is just the misery that keeps giving and giving.
5. High humidity. Is there any other kind? The same misery equilibrium theory applies to humidity vs. wind.
 
QOTD: Would you rather run...
1. Without a watch or without music/podcasts?
2. A race with 20 people or 20,000 people?
3. In a cotton tshirt or cotton socks?
4. In 110F or -10F temperatures?
5. In high humidity or high winds?

1. Without Music. I am currently running with two watches....
2. 20,000 (that's like the MW half or full)
3. T-shirt .. and then I'd take it off if I had too. I can't run without socks
4.-10
5. Highwinds ( can I requests that they be a high tail wind?)

I think it very likely goes back to the inaccuracy of the data. Am I really at a deficit of 50 calories per day? Or is it merely that all of my inaccuracies in the system I've set up has led to a 1750 calorie deficit in a week? In the span of two weeks, just about a month ago, I lost 3 pounds. So if I were eating at 1700 calories, were my calculations actually off by 500 calories per day? If the 3500 cal/lb is true, then that must be the case. (3500*3 = 10500/21 = 500 cal/day deficit)
My thought when you said that was that you're more likely to be underestimating the calories burned than overestimating the calories consumed.
 

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