What is going on with Disney parks?

[Moliphino]

I'm pretty sure you know what i meant. But I'll explain.

Yes people are paying it.

Nowhere else would anyone get away with charging those prices. The hotels and amenities just don't cut it.

So if their only justification of the cost is "people will pay it" - not that the hotel itself is worth it, the restaurants, the staff, the amenities, the extras - then that's pretty sad, I will complain about it, and stay elsewhere.

Not saying there's no reason to complain or that I don't think the prices are ridiculous, but Disney has no reason to decrease prices when people are more than willing to pay them. Obviously enough people do find it worth it.

 

[LSUmiss]

You went quite often correct (can't remember)? You love love love Disney theme parks correct?

Lots of kids are more or less so so about it all. Oh they may love Disney but they may not be so over the moon in love with a theme park or it's the same amount of enjoyment as something else they've done.

Seen many posts about how their kids were just as excited for pool time at the resort as they were for MK time.

I have memories but they aren't really strong connections. In order to have a strong memory over decades and decades you have to connect it within your brain. Otherwise it may just be an over reaching feeling rather than specific memories. Other vacations won out on the memory front. Not directed at the PP but I get the feeling that some posters would be disappointed in that or upset (how many posts are out there about the parents upset their kids don't want to go to Disney again and go somewhere else) and they would blame Disney but is it really Disney's fault that I can recall having more fun at the Lake on a pontoon boat and playing farkle at night than I did being at MK at various ages (and that's not saying I didn't have fun at WDW though)? Nah.

I was more or less trying to say you really can't blame Disney if your child doesn't have the nostaglic feeling you do especially because you cannot control what gives you that emotion. You can't recreate everything from when you were younger because they are your nostalgic feelings and you open yourself up to the increased chance of disappointment (but aiming at the wrong party IMO) when you try to force it.

The PP has a less than 2 year old. I don't remember a darn thing about my SeaWorld, Busch Gardens, Universal, DLR and WDW trips from when I was a few years old. There's a couple of photos to prove it but other than that it's my parents that have the memories not me from those young young years. If there's any nostaglic feelings created from when I was quite young it's my parent's feelings not mine irrespective of park experience. So when you're talking about being upset or sad that your child may not grow up with the same nostaglic emotions you had you have to keep that in perspective--they may not have had those feelings in the first place.

But that’s my point. I know he won’t remember any trips now, but if we stop going now b/c we no longer enjoy it, it’s very unlikely DS will grow up with that nostalgia for the parks.

 

[LSUmiss]

This is a company with an army of economic analysts who can change direction on a dime and generally in front of the direction the economy is headed. They will see the signs and be prepared for any downturn and already have a plan in place to insulate them through it. This is one of the most successful companies in the world and while no company is completely recession proof, they are one of the closest companies to it because they will adjust to any economic swings. And the reality is people who are currently jaded, a large percentage will return at some point because Disney and WDW are a significant part of their past.

Maybe but there have been many greedy corporations who have miscalculated their risks.

 

[mvk]

Not that you still wouldn't be able to see a significant increase in costs but you weren't comparing apples to apples. Your trips aren't the same. But that doesn't mean we can't see how the costs have gone up just generally speaking.

The trips aren’t the same because what was done 10 years ago was lesser days, free dining, and during value season, yet was still almost 10% of income as compared to more days, paid dining, at one of most expensive seasons, yet still a lower percentage of our income, and with a lot more stuff to do than 10 years ago.

I’d gladly take more days with more stuff to do at a lower percentage of income anytime. Trips are getting more expensive dollar-wise, sure, but we are making much more money than we were 10 years ago as well. It’s more of a value now than it was a decade ago for us.

 

[LSUmiss]

I was more specifically talking about feelings of disappointed related to fears that nostgalia may not be there for someone's child. That's not Disney's fault if that doesn't happen. The nostaglic emotions are that of the parent at this point not of the kid anyways. Certainly kids can get nostaglic feelings and be part of that generational Disney family.

I agree on the internet part. There's so many blogs aimed at giving tips and tricks many focused on the 'budget' key word.

I think you’re misunderstanding what I was saying. I’m not saying that DS may not end up enjoying the parks as they are. I’m saying if we stop going b/c we (DH & I) no longer enjoy it, then it won’t end up being a part of his life.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

True except if by the time DS is old enough wdw had become a place that’s known for being a pita with crowds, lines, high prices, etc, he may have no desire to even try it. What makes a lot of ppl go back despite the changes that make it not as enjoyable is the nostalgia.

That's all relative though. People have been complaining about crowds and lines and high pricing for years. It's totally fair for one to say "hey it's gotten worse" but there's no doubt that for some people it's been a problem for years.

People also have different touring styles. What makes it difficult for you to tour (having a young child) may not present much of an issue to someone else. You won't be alone in your thoughts but that doesn't mean everyone shares that same viewpoint.

I do agree that nostalgia is what brings a lot of people back but that nostalgia is different from person to person. And it wouldn't be a failure on Disney's part if your son doesn't have a desire to even try it out--there's no obligation to go to WDW. You may want them to want to go but that wouldn't be Disney's fault if they don't want to or if they do go and just find no nostalgia to bring them back again.

But that’s my point. I know he won’t remember any trips now, but if we stop going now b/c we no longer enjoy it, it’s very unlikely DS will grow up with that nostalgia for the parks.

You're too focused on that though. You're upset at the prospect but it's not Disney's fault. Nor was it ever guaranteed that your son would enjoy the place that you so enjoy. I get that the idea is disheartening to you just trying to bring in perspective. I think you're going to place too much emphasis on requiring your son to love and enjoy something you do and if he ends up you're going to say "well it's because Disney did this Disney did that"..I don't really see that as fair. Disney has a lot of faults IMO but they cannot be held responsible for someone actually enjoying their parks as in they enjoy a Disney theme park.

There are way more people out there that don't care one whit about WDW or they went once and they were like "meh it was alright". There shouldn't be any hard feelings towards those who are like that. And you never know if as an adult he decides to go and enjoys it. He may create the nostaglia then. You're thinking nostalgia is related to age--it's not.

 

[LSUmiss]

That's all relative though. People have been complaining about crowds and lines and high pricing for years. It's totally fair for one to say "hey it's gotten worse" but there's no doubt that for some people it's been a problem for years.

People also have different touring styles. What makes it difficult for you to tour (having a young child) may not present much of an issue to someone else. You won't be alone in your thoughts but that doesn't mean everyone shares that same viewpoint.

I do agree that nostalgia is what brings a lot of people back but that nostalgia is different from person to person. And it wouldn't be a failure on Disney's part if your son doesn't have a desire to even try it out--there's no obligation to go to WDW. You may want them to want to go but that wouldn't be Disney's fault if they don't want to or if they do go and just find no nostalgia to bring them back again.

You're too focused on that though. You're upset at the prospect but it's not Disney's fault. Nor was it ever guaranteed that your son would enjoy the place that you so enjoy. I get that the idea is disheartening to you just trying to bring in perspective. I think you're going to place too much emphasis on requiring your son to love and enjoy something you do and if he ends up you're going to say "well it's because Disney did this Disney did that"..I don't really see that as fair. Disney has a lot of faults IMO but they cannot be held responsible for someone actually enjoying their parks as in they enjoy a Disney theme park.

There are way more people out there that don't care one whit about WDW or they went once and they were like "meh it was alright". There shouldn't be any hard feelings towards those who are like that. And you never know if as an adult he decides to go and enjoys it. He may create the nostaglia then. You're thinking nostalgia is related to age--it's not.

It’s not that it’s disheartening. My point was in response to a pp who said that nostalgia diminishes with every passing generation. I was using my DS as an example of this if we stop going. And more & more on these boards more ppl like @Farro, @SaintsManiac, & me who used to be defenders find ourselves complaining too. We all have a threshold & it seems like more & more I see ppl on these boards & irl reaching theirs.

 

[Farro]

I think you’re misunderstanding what I was saying. I’m not saying that DS may not end up enjoying the parks as they are. I’m saying if we stop going b/c we (DH & I) no longer enjoy it, then it won’t end up being a part of his life.

Yes. And that was my point about nostalgia disappearing with generations.

I love to go because my father loved it and took us. I got bit by the bug, so I go, but no kids.

If people who have nostalgia for Disney now start to lose it, they will take less trips or none at all, and their children won't have that same nostalgia - no Disney.

People now who have switched to Universal and have children that they take are probably instilling nostalgia for Universal with their children.

It's really not a hard concept to grasp.

Will it turn into a decrease in visitors? Only time will tell.

 

[Beer Me]

...the ill will that has built up amongst loyal customers will make it harder for them to recover.

I can’t speak about recessions etc but the “ill will” has to be a problem. My view of Disney World has shifted in recent years. I still think it’s an amazing place but as prices rise and some of the magic wears off any emotional or nostalgic attachment I had is also wearing off and it’s not coming back even if prices dropped.

I still want to go - I’m planning on 2021- but it’s more of a commodity now where it used to be something more special. I’m definitely thinking of off site hotels and meals where I used to be an onsite diehard. Maybe Disney execs don’t care as long as business is good but if there are millions more with some degree of disillusionment it seems like it could have a long term negative effect on business

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

It’s not that it’s disheartening. My point was in response to a pp who said that nostalgia diminishes with every passing generation. I was using my DS as an example of this if we stop going. And more & more on these boards more ppl like @Farro, @SaintsManiac, & me who used to be defenders find ourselves complaining too. We all have a threshold & it seems like more & more I see ppl on these boards & irl reaching theirs.

Apologies it sure came off to me as you seeing it as disheartening.

I'm one of those people regarding FP..used to not see an issue but my DLR trips changed that. I'd rather they get rid of FP on just about every ride--and that's a growing thought too.

 

[LSUmiss]

Yes. And that was my point about nostalgia disappearing with generations.

I love to go because my father loved it and took us. I got bit by the bug, so I go, but no kids.

If people who have nostalgia for Disney now start to lose it, they will take less trips or none at all, and their children won't have that same nostalgia - no Disney.

People now who have switched to Universal and have children that they take are probably instilling nostalgia for Universal with their children.

It's really not a hard concept to grasp.

Will it turn into a decrease in visitors? Only time will tell.

Right & it’ll take some time b/c those kids have to grow up etc. It could take 20 years for it to all come to fruition.

 

[Brianstl]

This is a company with an army of economic analysts who can change direction on a dime and generally in front of the direction the economy is headed. They will see the signs and be prepared for any downturn and already have a plan in place to insulate them through it. This is one of the most successful companies in the world and while no company is completely recession proof, they are one of the closest companies to it because they will adjust to any economic swings. And the reality is people who are currently jaded, a large percentage will return at some point because Disney and WDW are a significant part of their past.

Great data analytics relies on strong IT infrastructure. Does anyone really think Disney has strong IT infrastructure?

The thing is that Disney has turned their vacations into a high end premium brand. Not a luxury brand, but a high end premium brand. This puts Disney now in a position that many premium brand consumer products still have haven't recovered from since the last recession a decade ago. The higher premium you charged, the harder it is to recover from the psychological change that happens in consumers when it comes to the value they perceive in lower cost and higher cost products because of an economic downturn. Even as you drop prices people will still mentally associate you with the higher priced product they no longer think was worth the cost.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Yes. And that was my point about nostalgia disappearing with generations.

I love to go because my father loved it and took us. I got bit by the bug, so I go, but no kids.

If people who have nostalgia for Disney now start to lose it, they will take less trips or none at all, and their children won't have that same nostalgia - no Disney.

People now who have switched to Universal and have children that they take are probably instilling nostalgia for Universal with their children.

It's really not a hard concept to grasp.

Will it turn into a decrease in visitors? Only time will tell.

I don't think it's not grasping the concept intellectually.

However using the premise that the only way to gain nostaglia is to go continuously as a kid is pretty limiting. I've read countless comments from people who never stepped foot in any Disney park until they were an adult. Those adults may or may not have other people to go with. It doesn't mean they don't have nostalgia for the parks.

Nostalgia is simply looking back fondly on some event or time period.

Can't you also look at it that who go to the parks shifts and evolves? Did it used to be as acceptable to go with just friends, to go just for the Food & Wine festival, to go with just couples and no kids, to be a part of the Community (things like Gay Days for instance which has gotten quite a following in comparison to its early days), etc? And those people have every opportunity to foster nostalgia that way and continue to go.

 

[jade1]

The in the park experience is what I consider stripped down.

Ah I see.

As for DVC, resort price increases are irrelevant.

And since we first purchased they added ME, and we also get to reserve at BLT (although we added on there), AKL, GF and POLY.

Those are amazing unexpected perks.

As for the parks. Since we first bought they have added.

7 Dwarfs, B&B Castle, L Mermaid, HEA and Tron.

T Track, M Space, Soarin, F&W, Frozen, GotGalxy Coaster, Rat, Gondola.

RnR coaster, TSMania, TSL Land-Slink-Alien SS, M&M Raway RR, Star Wars Land.

P Whirl, E Everest, F Nemo, ToL Awakenings, R of Light, Pandora Land-FoPassage-Navi River.

And all of D Springs which we now do about 3 times each week.

We do most of these with FP+ so crowds aren't that important, and we also get a lot done in smaller windows.

Not stripped down for us.

 

[Q-man]

Ah I see.

As for DVC, resort price increases are irrelevant.

And since we first purchased they added ME, and we also get to reserve at BLT (although we added on there), AKL, GF and POLY.

Those are amazing unexpected perks.

As for the parks. Since we first bought they have added.

7 Dwarfs, B&B Castle, L Mermaid, HEA and Tron.

T Track, M Space, Soarin, F&W, Frozen, GotGalxy Coaster, Rat, Gondola.

RnR coaster, TSMania, TSL Land-Slink-Alien SS, M&M Raway RR.

P Whirl, E Everest, F Nemo, ToL Awakenings, R of Light, Pandora Land-FoPassage-Navi River.

And all of D Springs which we now do about 3 times each week.

We do most of these with FP+ so crowds aren't that important, and we also get a lot done in smaller windows.

Not stripped down for us.

Funny you didn't quote the part where I said early buyers definitely made out from a great deal.

 

[jade1]

Funny you didn't quote the part where I said early buyers got a great deal.

But you said you were talking about parks experience associated to those "locked in" to DVC-even though anyone can sell today.

So what's your cut off for the stripped down park experience? 1 year, 3, 5, 10?

Those of us at 20 for sure have seen more additions, but even lately its been pretty good IMO.

Tron, HEA, GoTG, Rat, Toy Story Land, M&MRRR, Star Wars Land, Pandora, D Springs.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The trips aren’t the same because what was done 10 years ago was lesser days, free dining, and during value season, yet was still almost 10% of income as compared to more days, paid dining, at one of most expensive seasons, yet still a lower percentage of our income, and with a lot more stuff to do than 10 years ago.

I’d gladly take more days with more stuff to do at a lower percentage of income anytime. Trips are getting more expensive dollar-wise, sure, but we are making much more money than we were 10 years ago as well. It’s more of a value now than it was a decade ago for us.

Right I was just saying you're comparing 5 day tickets with 8 day tickets, free dining with no free dining, etc. It's def. gone up in price significantly so but you're also changing the parameters for which a comparison is being drawn from that's all I was saying.

Totally though your % of income ratio is an interesting viewpoint

 

[kymom99]

Just thinking out loud a bit here. Some things I noticed over the years are what I consider subtle ways to get us to spend more money. Maybe those of you with a marketing degree or background can weigh in.

When they implemented ME, we took advantage of it in its first month of service. It was brilliant and we loved it. However, I realize it is a way of keeping people from leaving property. Back then you could get a cab, but Uber and Lyft weren't a thing yet. So people were more inclined to stay and spend all their money at Disney. Grocery delivery also wasn't really a commonly used thing either. And the Values had no fridges. So yes, you could get a cheap room with some decent atmosphere because Disney was getting you to spend for all the extras. Tickets were also structured to keep you there the full week, so you didn't split your time between WDW and US. So even back then there were strategies in place to get us to part with our money, they just weren't as obvious. (We stayed Value the first 2 trips.)

I also noticed our basic value, and later moderate, rooms were designed to get you out and spending. There are beds and a couple straight back chairs. If you want to sit around and not lay around, you have to get out of the room. So, more opportunity to spend. Also the 2 person limit on king rooms. People can say its fire codes till they are blue in the face. I contend its simply their way of forcing people to get more than one room. I've never been in a deluxe room, but short of getting a suite or villa, you really aren't getting the amenities that might help you save or enjoy being in the rooms. More recently, this presents a bit of an inconvenience for us because my husband has food allergies that were recently diagnosed. Its just a big hassle to be away from home if you can't at least heat up something for him in the room that he can eat.

In the past years, it really has seemed that Disney is marketing to a different guest. The new hotels are all more higher priced. They added Art of Animation, but those aren't nearly as economical as the All Stars. They are making tickets more expensive because maybe guests aren't staying full weeks anymore. They discontinued the ticket structures that would allow someone to purchase tickets ahead of time to use years later. They have gradually closed up a lot of loopholes, in my opinion. Of course they are free to do that, but it hasn't gone unnoticed by those of us who have been around for the last decade or so. It's just getting harder to feel like you are getting a deal.

Maybe in the past the changes were more subtle, but now it seems like they are just going full steam ahead. They have a lot to offer, that's for sure. And for years people were saying Disney needed to step up their game. New guests won't know the difference I suppose. But it's hard for us to see the changes that hit so hard in the wallet.

 

[Moliphino]

I don't think it's not grasping the concept intellectually.

However using the premise that the only way to gain nostaglia is to go continuously as a kid is pretty limiting. I've read countless comments from people who never stepped foot in any Disney park until they were an adult. Those adults may or may not have other people to go with. It doesn't mean they don't have nostalgia for the parks.

Nostalgia is simply looking back fondly on some event or time period.

My parents only started going to Disney parks because us kids wanted to go. After our first trip to Disneyland, my dad even thought "never again", but my sisters and I insisted we had to the next time we went out to CA. 30 years on my parents go to WDW more than I do.

 

[jkh36619]

We have decided instead of AP's every year, we're going to do a year of Disney AP, then a year of UOAP, they a year of something else. That gets us to the parks every 3 years and while we are doing Universal, we can always pop over to DS or a resort for free to get our fix. Thats how we're dealing with the price increase.