What is going on with Disney parks?

[DrunkJam]

We never went as children. From UK, and with our background, it was just a dream. So, my WDW nostalgia comes from the bank holiday tv specials, and that every film we saw at the cinema was a disney classic (remember when they used to put them back into cinemas every 7 years or so?)

Maybe that made it harder for *actual* Disney World to meet my dream expectations. But, in 2010, they pretty much did, CMs went out of their way to make our vacation good (We didn't get pixie dust extras, but we did get exceptional service) queues were in line with a reasonable experience of theme parks the cleanliness and care WAY above that.

Every trip since, it has become a little bit less good, like they care a little bit less. But the nostalgia factor is strong, and they can get away with a LOT because people have that.

 

[xipotec]

I agree it doesn't seem to be making a difference with Disney but I have seen a lot of posts of people starting to venture to other destinations instead. You can go somewhere else for longer for either less money or the same amount.

At some point the current Disney bubble will burst and they will again have to entice people to come back with lower prices or more "free" promotions/add-ons. We just don't know when the burst will be.

In the meantime I have very little desire to return to the US theme parks. I will most likely go to Tokyo Disney in the next year or 2 and maybe even Shanghai or Hong Kong before I'm back to Florida. I would even be more likely to go out Disneyland in California first.

DisneyWorld is crazy these days and I just don't have the patience even though I love theme parks.

We are doing California next year instead of FL.

cheaper, easier ,

 

[Nancyg56]

It's the exact same mentality though. But whatever. You guys have no comprhension of what I was saying, or maybe you do and don't like it, so you're just trying to twist it into something I wasn't saying. At any rate, I have no more time to waste on this.

It really is not. You are comparing social activism with vacation budgets. However I will play. If I feel that my cable company is increasing the costs of it's products, however I know that I still like many of the services I receive, I am not going to boycott the company. I will search for options that will give me some of the options I enjoy with the cable company, reduce the services I use with them according and call it a day. My budget remains in place, however I compromise how I secure my internet and TV. I may not have it all on one clicker, just as I may not stay onsite, but I will have a decent experience for my money. My reducing my choices with the company is how I deal with pricing that over reaches my budget. I would imagine we all do this in some way or another and I rather doubt you would say our budgeting was contributing to an overall problem. One does not need to walk away completely to make an impact.

Now if the cable company was doing something that went against my core values, I would stop all services and buy an antenna.

Yes. And that was my point about nostalgia disappearing with generations.

I love to go because my father loved it and took us. I got bit by the bug, so I go, but no kids.

If people who have nostalgia for Disney now start to lose it, they will take less trips or none at all, and their children won't have that same nostalgia - no Disney.

People now who have switched to Universal and have children that they take are probably instilling nostalgia for Universal with their children.

It's really not a hard concept to grasp.

Will it turn into a decrease in visitors? Only time will tell.

I think that nostalgia blossoms in many ways. My sister had plenty to say about my family WDW trips, and none was positively lovely. She agreed to accompany me in December as a buffer for the two 13 YO girls I was taking. (And because I hate to drink alone and who can travel with girls and not want wine?) Anyway, my sister has one little DGD and one on the way. Holy cow!!!! WDW created a monster! Her souvenir budget, which was minimal at best exploded. She made purchases for not only the child who is here, but the one on the way, and multiple children whose parents she is friendly with. Souvenirs for family, friends. Her heart swelled watching kids interact with characters, chat in lines, and wander starryeyed through the parks. She is planning a trip with her family now, but not a big wing ding once in a lifetime blowout. Nope. Offsite in her time share. No dining plan. only a few park days. And her crew will love it, share memories of their own childhood through Disney movies, and laugh at Auntie and how she wore silly ears. And then they may do Disney with Auntie (I'm more fun! LOL! ) on site, dining plan, cocktails, food, snacks and a a built in baby sitter

My own Disney nostalgia was shaped in much the same way. I had taken my own children and left WDW thinking if I never stepped foot in there again it would be too soon. I agreed to go in for a day with my sister IL at the time my own DGD was 2. OMG! I was Disneyfied! You see, it was not the Disney parks that I was growing misty eyes for, or the previous trips I had taken. As a child there were none, and as an adult it was not a place I wanted to ever see again. It was my Kady. She watched the Disney movies and the characters were her friends. Until I watched the movies with her the only Princess I could remember and name was Cinderella, and the jury was out on her. LOL!

You do not need to grow up in WDW parks to develop a nostalgia for a fantasy filled vacation, but you do need to be open to the concept that vacation styles will differ, budgets will fluctuate, and that while your kids may be nostalgic to reinvent their childhood memories, they will likely do so on their own terms. (And they will also make compromises that some would say contribute to the overall parks problem.

 

[Nancyg56]

We have decided instead of AP's every year, we're going to do a year of Disney AP, then a year of UOAP, they a year of something else. That gets us to the parks every 3 years and while we are doing Universal, we can always pop over to DS or a resort for free to get our fix. Thats how we're dealing with the price increase.

I dealt with it by choosing not to book a bounce back, booked an AI Aruba vacation. If something comes up I will book a resort based trip, skip the parks altogether, and maybe book an after hours event. I may book a moderate and skip my deluxe and save even more money.

 

[jkh36619]

I dealt with it by choosing not to book a bounce back, booked an AI Aruba vacation. If something comes up I will book a resort based trip, skip the parks altogether, and maybe book an after hours event. I may book a moderate and skip my deluxe and save even more money.

I also haven't ruled out a DAH on non AP years just for a fix

 

[mvk]

Right I was just saying you're comparing 5 day tickets with 8 day tickets, free dining with no free dining, etc. It's def. gone up in price significantly so but you're also changing the parameters for which a comparison is being drawn from that's all I was saying.

Totally though your % of income ratio is an interesting viewpoint

just saying, with the longer stay and paid dining, I would expect to be paying much more. And the seasonal difference, too. But it’s actually more cost-effective for me to go now than it was then, with much more stuff to do while there.

 

[SaintsManiac]

I also haven't ruled out a DAH on non AP years just for a fix

I was going to suggest that!

 

[disneygirlsng]

Right I was just saying you're comparing 5 day tickets with 8 day tickets, free dining with no free dining, etc. It's def. gone up in price significantly so but you're also changing the parameters for which a comparison is being drawn from that's all I was saying.

Totally though your % of income ratio is an interesting viewpoint

I think what they are trying to say (at least how I'm interpreting it) is that they are essentially getting more for less than they used to. So, yes, they are going for more days and paying for the dining plan, but they are still spending less in terms of comparing it to their income. So pretty much the opposite of what everybody else is saying. They are getting more value and spending a lower percentage of money.

 

[mvk]

I think what they are trying to say (at least how I'm interpreting it) is that they are essentially getting more for less than they used to. So, yes, they are going for more days and paying for the dining plan, but they are still spending less in terms of comparing it to their income. So pretty much the opposite of what everybody else is saying. They are getting more value and spending a lower percentage of money.

That’s exact what I’m saying. 10 years ago, that shorter trip during value season with free dining was almost 10% of yearly income. That doesn’t seem outrageous, as I’ve seen that 10% is typically what the average American family spends on vacation. With where we are at now, the longer, “more expensive” vacation is actually a lesser percentage of our income.

That ~$8400 number I gave earlier was including the cost of flights, since I bought the flights 10 years ago in my example. It actuality, I’m getting 4 free flights based on airline/credit card points so the net cost for me is closer to $6,800 (or less than 6% of our income now). Much better value now, especially considering all that had been added over the years. I’m not sure there was a time over the past 10 years that we thought we didn’t get our money’s worth, or enjoyed it fully.

Thats just my perspective based our our family and situation, and while I realize most don’t enjoy the All-Stars, it works for us. The kids prefer them to others we’ve stayed due to theming, and we don’t spend enough time at the resort to worry much one way or the other.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

That’s exact what I’m saying. 10 years ago, that shorter trip during value season with free dining was almost 10% of yearly income. That doesn’t seem outrageous, as I’ve seen that 10% is typically what the average American family spends on vacation. With where we are at now, the longer, “more expensive” vacation is actually a lesser percentage of our income.

That ~$8400 number I gave earlier was including the cost of flights, since I bought the flights 10 years ago in my example. It actuality, I’m getting 4 free flights based on airline/credit card points so the net cost for me is closer to $6,800 (or less than 6% of our income now). Much better value now, especially considering all that had been added over the years. I’m not sure there was a time over the past 10 years that we thought we didn’t get our money’s worth, or enjoyed it fully.

Thats just my perspective based our our family and situation, and while I realize most don’t enjoy the All-Stars, it works for us. The kids prefer them to others we’ve stayed due to theming, and we don’t spend enough time at the resort to worry much one way or the other.

I think most would be in the same aspects of percentage to income. Generally speaking one gets more financially secure as time goes on even as one's financial obligations increase. It's not a given though as financial stability can fluctuate but still.

That said for some it may be looking at how much more the costs are at X date than they were at Y date and what they are getting out of those experiences. If the resort pricing for instance hadn't been increasing at such a rapid rate your ratio to income level would be even less. And someone may say good lord those resort prices are nuts even if they can more reasonably afford them than maybe when they were younger.

 

[KaystotheKingdom]

This got way off track from my original point, which simply was that there is a fan base that will be unable to visit to the extent we previously had. Obviously they are not struggling to get the business but the landscape of the vacations are changing.

for my family personally, the price increases mean it won’t be the annual trip we’ve come to look forward to and like more and more families a once every few years situation.

 

[Jimmy Mouse]

And more & more I’m seeing posters who used to say it was tolerable say it’s no longer tolerable. We are definitely one of those ppl. We are now staying at Pop. We used to be Poly ppl. Stayed poly last 4 trips.

We have gone over to Pop to check it out on our last trip. I think we are going to give it a shot. Maybe do a summer weekend or do a few days to extend a trip. We did that a few times at POR and POFQ to see how we liked it. I personally like POFQ and our kids loved the pool. My wife is spoiled on Club Level but I may be able to change her mind. I hear a lot of good things about Pop and you can book a week for the price of one night at YC/BC or Poly.

 

[Remy is Up]

Maybe but there have been many greedy corporations who have miscalculated their risks.

Greedy may be the most overused term. Right up there with fair and equal. Just because a person or company feels obligated to stakeholders to maximize their roi, that is their job. It isnt greed to do your job and reward those who ensure that happens. It is easy to demonize companies when you have no stake in the company or skin in the game. Walt started an empire, eisner pushed it forward, and now Iger's used fixing the studios and making acquisitions to create cash a portion of which is now going Into the parks. And Disney is a hold standard other companies mimic and learn fro. Like coke, McDonald's. Nike etc. Disney wont make a disastrous mistake when the economy turns. They are planning for it already.

 

[KaystotheKingdom]

Maybe we should all just go to the grocery store and buy overpriced Mickey bars to cool down this heated debate.

you would think someone proposed replacing the Carousel of Progress with a designated smoking area.

 

[hertamaniac]

None of increased prices, increased crowds or reduced experiences are affecting Disney in any adverse way. Almost the opposite is happening and things are better than ever for business.

I don't see it that way. Reduced experiences at the current timestamp will have detrimental effects in the long term. The guests that are dissatisfied with there recent experiences will find other ways to spend their money. Once Universal open Epic Universe, I am anticipating will affect Disney in an adverse way.

 

[hertamaniac]

None of increased prices, increased crowds or reduced experiences are affecting Disney in any adverse way. Almost the opposite is happening and things are better than ever for business.

I don't see it that way. Reduced experiences at the current timestamp will have detrimental effects in the long term. The guests that are dissatisfied with there recent experiences will find other ways to spend their money. Once Universal opens Epic Universe, I am anticipating it will affect Disney in an adverse way.

 

[LSUmiss]

Greedy may be the most overused term. Right up there with fair and equal. Just because a person or company feels obligated to stakeholders to maximize their roi, that is their job. It isnt greed to do your job and reward those who ensure that happens. It is easy to demonize companies when you have no stake in the company or skin in the game. Walt started an empire, eisner pushed it forward, and now Iger's used fixing the studios and making acquisitions to create cash a portion of which is now going Into the parks. And Disney is a hold standard other companies mimic and learn fro. Like coke, McDonald's. Nike etc. Disney wont make a disastrous mistake when the economy turns. They are planning for it already.

I think greed describes most mega corporations. Without getting into a debate about capitalism in general that’s really all I can say. And my only point is sometimes these companies miscalculate consumer behavior. So it could happen.

 

[clarker99]

We are doing California next year instead of FL.

cheaper, easier ,

Your flight and hotel cost may be less but the money you give Disney will be similar.

I don't see it that way. Reduced experiences at the current timestamp will have detrimental effects in the long term. The guests that are dissatisfied with there recent experiences will find other ways to spend their money. Once Universal opens Epic Universe, I am anticipating it will affect Disney in an adverse way.

We are a few yrs away from Epic opening and WDW is building a lot of stuff these days to keep people interested but sure no one will come back for Ratatouille, Tron, Gaurdians, the re-vamped Epcot, Tomorrowland refurb, continued build out of the Studios and whatever else they announce. Disney is doomed.

Also, I am sure that Nintendo World wont be wall to wall people with ride down time and terrible park ops to handle the crowds. Plus, ticket prices for all Universal parks will def go down to adjust for the 10hr mario kart line.

Both company’s will be more than fine.

 

[hertamaniac]

We are a few yrs away from Epic opening and WDW is building a lot of stuff these days to keep people interested but sure no one will come back for Ratatouille, Tron, Gaurdians, the re-vamped Epcot, Tomorrowland refurb, continued build out of the Studios and whatever else they announce. Disney is doomed.

Also, I am sure that Nintendo World wont be wall to wall people with ride down time and terrible park ops to handle the crowds. Plus, ticket prices for all Universal parks will def go down to adjust for the 10hr mario kart line.

Both company’s will be more than fine.

Why would no one come back for Rat, Tron, GotG, EPCOT, Tomorrowland refurb.,etc.? Why would you think Disney is doomed?

I am not as confident as you that Nintendo World won't be wall to wall people with ride down time. I am not sure that Universal would drop ticket prices for a 10 hr. Mario Kart line, but not saying it couldn't happen.

If you were being sarcastic, I am not sure that is in alignment with these boards rules. But, if it is allowed then I am more than happy to open those floodgates and respond back to you, appropriately. For now, I'll stay in a holding pattern with my point standing about negative WDW experiences can compound into guests expenditures outside of WDW.

 

[Itsnotmykitchen]

I don't see it that way. Reduced experiences at the current timestamp will have detrimental effects in the long term. The guests that are dissatisfied with there recent experiences will find other ways to spend their money. Once Universal opens Epic Universe, I am anticipating it will affect Disney in an adverse way.

I can’t see Universal ever doing significant damage to Disney because the parks don’t offer a wide enough array of attractions for everyone. Im a huge Universal fan, was going once a year, but now I’m taking a few years break since I have to pay for my little ones admissions. $100+ is way too much to pay for the limited things they can do. Disney will never have that problem.